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What do we do about Iran?

What do we do?


  • Total voters
    10

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Let's say you are right about why they want to kill us. They still want to kill us, and with nukes we are giving them a much greater chance of doing so.
I believe in taking action to avoid being nuked by Iran...or having them nuke anyone. The best course (IMO) is to talk things out so that even if they do become nuclear capable, they'll be peaceful. We need to stop threatening them as a good first step.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I believe we should give the peace process a chance and see how it plays out, but not as a compromise. If Iran is allowed to get nukes, other countries there will have no choice but to try and get them as well, including the Saudis. With many of these countries possibly obtaining nukes one way or another, what could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Given that we staged a coup in Iran....
1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.....& supplied Iraq with WMDs (chem & bio) to use against Iran & the Kurds....
United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
......I'd say they have a right to respond to us with violent rhetoric. We attacked them first & second.

Instead of attacking them once again, how about we just start treating them ethically & with dignity?
It's worth trying for once.

More recent, and I believe more relevant, was Bush's 2002 State of the Union speech.
Despite knowing full well that 9/11 was a Saudi Arabian attack, he declared Iran part of an "axis of evil". That included North Korea and Iraq.

NK pulled a nuclear WMD out of there ***. Their tinpot dictator died peacefully in his sleep transferring power to his son. Iraq had no such weapon. Their tinpot dictator died miserably knowing his heirs were already dead.
So then there is Iran. Bush had armies on their eastern border and western. Of course their nuclear weapons program went into overdrive. They are not stupid. And of course they are lying about it. It worked for NK.
And I don't believe it is possible to prevent a country as geographically large, populous, and oil rich as Iran from getting a nuclear deterrent.


It might turn out that the "axis of evil" speech was as big a foreign policy blunder as the invasion of Iraq, in the long term.

Tom
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
More recent, and I believe more relevant, was Bush's 2002 State of the Union speech.
Despite knowing full well that 9/11 was a Saudi Arabian attack, he declared Iran part of an "axis of evil". That included North Korea and Iraq.

NK pulled a nuclear WMD out of there ***. Their tinpot dictator died peacefully in his sleep transferring power to his son. Iraq had no such weapon. Their tinpot dictator died miserably knowing his heirs were already dead.
So then there is Iran. Bush had armies on their eastern border and western. Of course their nuclear weapons program went into overdrive. They are not stupid. And of course they are lying about it. It worked for NK.
And I don't believe it is possible to prevent a country as geographically large, populous, and oil rich as Iran from getting a nuclear deterrent.


It might turn out that the "axis of evil" speech was as big a foreign policy blunder as the invasion of Iraq, in the long term.

Tom
Them's a whole lotta words, & nuthin to quarrel with.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
I believe in taking action to avoid being nuked by Iran...or having them nuke anyone. The best course (IMO) is to talk things out so that even if they do become nuclear capable, they'll be peaceful. We need to stop threatening them as a good first step.
How did that work with Hitler?
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
Not all problems are Hitler.
If they were, we should immediately attack N Korea, China, Pakistan, Russia, etc.
Some problems are like Hitler.

Hitler stated in Mein Kump his plan to annihilate the Jews. The world didn't believe him.

Iran consistently calls for the death of America and Israel, we should believe that they mean it.

If someone is coming to kill you, get up earlier, and kill him first. In this case take out the Iran's nukes.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Some problems are like Hitler.
Hitler stated in Mein Kump his plan to annihilate the Jews. The world didn't believe him.
Iran consistently calls for the death of America and Israel, we should believe that they mean it.
If someone is coming to kill you, get up earlier, and kill him first. In this case take out the Iran's nukes.
So if one leader makes a promise & kept it, then all leaders who make promises will keep them?
Can't argue with that!
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Hitler stated in Mein Kump his plan to annihilate the Jews. The world didn't believe him.

  1. That's not the name of the book.
  2. While it is indeed one of the most widely distributed books in German/World history it is also the one which almost no one actually read.
  3. And exactly what didn't they believe? I am getting the feeling you have no idea what's exactly written in the book. There is not a single mention of a future Shoa in the entire book. The only part which is somewhat about decimating people is the part where he calls to eliminate the weak from society. Which in itself is more aimed at Homosexuals, handicapped and the like.








inb4 I am called a Nazi apologist.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
  1. That's not the name of the book.
  2. While it is indeed one of the most widely distributed books in German/World history it is also the one which almost no one actually read.
  3. And exactly what didn't they believe? I am getting the feeling you have no idea what's exactly written in the book. There is not a single mention of a future Shoa in the entire book. The only part which is somewhat about decimating people is the part where he calls to eliminate the weak from society. Which in itself is more aimed at Homosexuals, handicapped and the like.

inb4 I am called a Nazi apologist.
Sure about that?

Isn't the Internet wonderful?

Adolf Hitler about the Jews - Quotes from Mein Kampf

Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.
And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.
Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.

Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

First, therefore, [the Jew] goes about making up to the people for his previous sins against them. He begins his career as the 'benefactor' of mankind. Since his new benevolence has a practical foundation, that the left hand should not know what the right hand giveth; no, whether he likes it or not, he must reconcile himself to letting as many people as possible know how deeply he feels the sufferings of the masses and all the sacrifices that he himself is making to combat them.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


But even more: all at once the Jew also becomes liberal and begins to rave about the necessary progress of mankind.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

If we consider how greatly he has sinned against the masses in the course of the centuries, how he has squeezed and sucked the blood again and again; if furthermore, we consider how the people gradually learned to hate him for this, and ended up by regarding his existence as nothing but punishment of Heaven for the other peoples, we can understand how hard this shift must be for the Jew.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people. (Book 1 Chap 11)
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

...the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

And so he [the Jew] advances on his fatal road until another force comes forth to oppose him, and in a mighty struggle hurls the heaven-stormer back to Lucifer. Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent...
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.'
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)


 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Sure about that?

Isn't the Internet wonderful?

Adolf Hitler about the Jews - Quotes from Mein Kampf

Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.
And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.
Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.

Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

First, therefore, [the Jew] goes about making up to the people for his previous sins against them. He begins his career as the 'benefactor' of mankind. Since his new benevolence has a practical foundation, that the left hand should not know what the right hand giveth; no, whether he likes it or not, he must reconcile himself to letting as many people as possible know how deeply he feels the sufferings of the masses and all the sacrifices that he himself is making to combat them.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

But even more: all at once the Jew also becomes liberal and begins to rave about the necessary progress of mankind.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

If we consider how greatly he has sinned against the masses in the course of the centuries, how he has squeezed and sucked the blood again and again; if furthermore, we consider how the people gradually learned to hate him for this, and ended up by regarding his existence as nothing but punishment of Heaven for the other peoples, we can understand how hard this shift must be for the Jew.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people. (Book 1 Chap 11)
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

...the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

And so he [the Jew] advances on his fatal road until another force comes forth to oppose him, and in a mighty struggle hurls the heaven-stormer back to Lucifer. Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent...
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.'
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
What springs to mind when reading the above is that sectarian hatred in the name of God is a dangerous & corrosive thing.
To see only Hitler, is to be doomed to endless war.
 
Last edited:

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Sure about that?

Isn't the Internet wonderful?

Adolf Hitler about the Jews - Quotes from Mein Kampf

Due to his own original special nature, the Jew cannot possess a religious institution, if for no other reason because he lacks idealism in any form, and hence belief in a hereafter is absolutely foreign to him.
And a religion in the Aryan sense cannot be imagined which lacks the conviction of survival after death in some form.
Indeed, the Talmud is not a book to prepare a man for the hereafter, but only for a practical and profitable life in this world.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine.

Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

First, therefore, [the Jew] goes about making up to the people for his previous sins against them. He begins his career as the 'benefactor' of mankind. Since his new benevolence has a practical foundation, that the left hand should not know what the right hand giveth; no, whether he likes it or not, he must reconcile himself to letting as many people as possible know how deeply he feels the sufferings of the masses and all the sacrifices that he himself is making to combat them.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

But even more: all at once the Jew also becomes liberal and begins to rave about the necessary progress of mankind.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

If we consider how greatly he has sinned against the masses in the course of the centuries, how he has squeezed and sucked the blood again and again; if furthermore, we consider how the people gradually learned to hate him for this, and ended up by regarding his existence as nothing but punishment of Heaven for the other peoples, we can understand how hard this shift must be for the Jew.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

The black-haired Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end, satanically glaring at and spying on the unsuspicious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood and removing her from the bosom of her own people. The Jew uses every possible means to undermine the racial foundations of a subjugated people. (Book 1 Chap 11)
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

...the personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

And so he [the Jew] advances on his fatal road until another force comes forth to oppose him, and in a mighty struggle hurls the heaven-stormer back to Lucifer. Germany is today the next great war aim of Bolshevism. It requires all the force of a young missionary idea to raise our people up again, to free them from the snares of this international serpent...
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.'
-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

It's always good to see that you don't read what I actually write.
Find me the quote where he brings forth the idea to mass murder Jews in Mein Kampf. Which is what I wrote. I never wrote that he didn't hate Jews nor that it wasn't present in Mein Kampf.

While you are at it explain to yourself why the murderous version of the Endlösung only started in mid 1941 and not in January 1933.
Really it's not my fault that you have no clue about some parts of history.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
It's always good to see that you don't read what I actually write.
Find me the quote where he brings forth the idea to mass murder Jews in Mein Kampf. Which is what I wrote. I never wrote that he didn't hate Jews nor that it wasn't present in Mein Kampf.

While you are at it explain to yourself why the murderous version of the Endlösung only started in mid 1941 and not in January 1933.
Really it's not my fault that you have no clue about some parts of history.
Okay fine, I didn't find that he said he will kill all the Jews, he just wrote that they were satanic and showed how deeply he hated Jews.

I feel much better now. Don't you?
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
Okay fine, I didn't find that he said he will kill all the Jews, he just wrote that they were satanic and showed how deeply he hated Jews.

I feel much better now. Don't you?

It doesn't really matter how you or I feel about it. It's just facts.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Thanks for asking.
I haven't decided yet.
But I don't want Obama to decide for us. I want him neutered.
 
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