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What do you believe exactly?

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
Something about being indoctrinated into a religion, /i'm not indoctrinated, / and you referred to a deity title that I don't even use. //Never even heard it being said/used, in real life//,. so, that is not very realistic. But that's besides the point, the point here is that we can be incorrect even though something seems to ''make sense''. I'm aware that atheism makes sense to atheists, etc.

Did I specifically say YOU were indoctrinated, or did I talk in general about the problems associated with early indoctrination? I'd have to know what I said specifically. My guess is though that you're indoctrinated whether you believe it or not. If you were raised in a Christian household and believe in the reality of the Christian God, you've been indoctrinated. If you had been raised in India, you'd be Hindu. That's all it means...that when you were a child people told you stories and said they were true, and that you've always believed these stories since then. This is the most common way people become religious...very few people have no religion as youths and then suddenly believe in God later on in life.

I'm not sure the other thing you're talking about...a deity title? Did I call him the Cloud King or something, trying to be funny?
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I wouldn't even know how to go about deciding which completely unevidenced things I believed in and which I didn't. So, I err on the side of not believing in things which are completely unevidenced. Keeps it simple, logical, and rational. I just prefer things that way.
 

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
No, you can't just invent new definitions for words. Indoctrinated has a specific meaning, it doesn't just mean you heard stuff, were taught things, etc. What the heck is the ''Christian god''?

Well two things here. I'm not changing the definition of anything, I'll post the Webster's defintion of indoctrinate below. It doesn't mean you turn into a raving doomsday prophet, in fact all it means is you were taught to believe something over something else. Do you disagree with this definition? Anyone who is taught a religion from youth has been indoctrinated. I'm not sure what your disagreement is here.

indoctrinate
verb in·doc·tri·nate \in-ˈdäk-trə-ˌnāt\
: to teach (someone) to fully accept the ideas, opinions, and beliefs of a particular group and to not consider other ideas, opinions, and beliefs

Full Definition of INDOCTRINATE
1: to instruct especially in fundamentals or rudiments : teach
2: to imbue with a usually partisan or sectarian opinion, point of view, or principle


Second point here...what do you mean "what the heck is the Christian God?" You don't know what the Christian God is? That angry dude from the Bible? The one who made the world in 7 days and then drowned all the humans he created? Are you playing with me here?

And the title doesn't matter, it's common, but I never use it, never heard anyone use it, so it's just not a good way to describe someone's Deity idea, / ie if you don't even know how they refer to their deity./

Do you mean Yahweh? Look, I don't mind people being critical of my posts, in fact I like a good argument and I have thick skin so you can crap on any ideas I have or statements I make and I'll play along. But if your going to protest something I've said, at least tell me what you're protesting. So far it's 1) you don't like Webster's defintion of the word "indoctrinated" and accuse me of making up defintions and 2) some term I used for God displeased you but you won't say what the term is.
 

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
Using that definition, were you indoctrinated?

Absolutely I was, yes. Heavily indoctrinated I would say. For most of my youth I believed everything my parents taught me...I worried a great deal about hell because my parents focused on a "works based" model where if you died with a sin on your record that wasn't cleansed in confession, we would go to hell even if we believed in Jesus. It frightened the crap out of me. We used to joke that you had to drive very carefully on your way to confession. I also had very sad, negative views of gay people who my parents indoctrinated me to believe were sinners and abnormal. I am ashamed now about that, but it wasn't my fault, it was drilled into my head when I was too young to know any better.

It's not an insult, to say one was indoctrinated, it's just what happens to the vast majority of children. The opposite is the when you hear someone say "I don't teach my children any one thing, I wait until they are old enough to figure it out for themselves."

Actually that was it, yes; I don't use that label. If you are trying to write JHVH, then that, YHWH, or Jehovah, are acceptable titles that I might use//write/.

OK you don't use that name, but I do. It's very common and I don't think it's insulting. Some people call him Jah, some Jehovah, some just God...I've seen somepeople refuse to put the O for some reason...spelling it G-d. See the link, it's just how some people refer to the Christian God, aka the God of the Bible. I don't see how Yahweh is worse than Jehovah, I think its just your personal preference.

When I start calling him the Cloud King or Skydaddy, then you can be insulted. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Absolutely I was, yes. Heavily indoctrinated I would say. For most of my youth I believed everything my parents taught me...I worried a great deal about hell because my parents focused on a "works based" model where if you died with a sin on your record that wasn't cleansed in confession, we would go to hell even if we believed in Jesus. It frightened the crap out of me. We used to joke that you had to drive very carefully on your way to confession. I also had very sad, negative views of gay people who my parents indoctrinated me to believe were sinners and abnormal. I am ashamed now about that, but it wasn't my fault, it was drilled into my head when I was too young to know any better.

It's not an insult, to say one was indoctrinated, it's just what happens to the vast majority of children. The opposite is the when you hear someone say "I don't teach my children any one thing, I wait until they are old enough to figure it out for themselves."



OK you don't use that name, but I do. It's very common and I don't think it's insulting. Some people call him Jah, some Jehovah, some just God...I've seen somepeople refuse to put the O for some reason...spelling it G-d. See the link, it's just how some people refer to the Christian God, aka the God of the Bible. I don't see how Yahweh is worse than Jehovah, I think its just your personal preference.

When I start calling him the Cloud King or Skydaddy, then you can be insulted. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh

I believe everyone gets taught whether the parents are doing it or not. I learned more about sex from my friends than I did from my parents because I was too embarrassed to talk about it so they gave me a book which was helpful.

I believe the doctrine to be correct, so one must address the evidence and not go by feelings.

I don't find the terms insulting but I beleive they convey concepts that are incorrect.
 

Demonslayer

Well-Known Member
I believe everyone gets taught whether the parents are doing it or not. I learned more about sex from my friends than I did from my parents because I was too embarrassed to talk about it so they gave me a book which was helpful.

I believe the doctrine to be correct, so one must address the evidence and not go by feelings.

I don't find the terms insulting but I beleive they convey concepts that are incorrect.

Your color coding is excellent.

Red: Most people are indoctrinated into their parents religion, but not all. Increasingly parents are intentionally not drilling God stories into their children until they are old enough to make decisions for themselves.

Pink: One time when I was young we witnessed a priest at our church tell a 7 year old girl that her parents were going to hell for getting a divorce. That's in the doctrine too, do you support that behavior? So much of your doctrine is hateful, for a religion that claims to be about peace and love.

Purple: Those names are just meant to be funny. Initially QKonn had questioned my use of "Yahweh" which I thought was a pretty commonly used name for the Christian God, but he prefers Jehovah and some others. Normally I'd just say "God" but you have to diferentiate between the Christian God and the hundreds of other made up gods.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
The most important belief I have -with good reason -is that there is hope for everyone.

Many go through life thinking certain people -even loved ones -are doomed, lost, in hell, etc. -but that's not actually biblical.

God's mercy never fails. It can be refused -but it never fails.

There is nothing that that been messed up which cannot be un- messed up.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Your color coding is excellent.

Red: Most people are indoctrinated into their parents religion, but not all. Increasingly parents are intentionally not drilling God stories into their children until they are old enough to make decisions for themselves.

Pink: One time when I was young we witnessed a priest at our church tell a 7 year old girl that her parents were going to hell for getting a divorce. That's in the doctrine too, do you support that behavior? So much of your doctrine is hateful, for a religion that claims to be about peace and love.

Purple: Those names are just meant to be funny. Initially QKonn had questioned my use of "Yahweh" which I thought was a pretty commonly used name for the Christian God, but he prefers Jehovah and some others. Normally I'd just say "God" but you have to diferentiate between the Christian God and the hundreds of other made up gods.

I taught home sunday school to my kids for a little while. I centered on Biblically inspired movies describing how Holywood tends to stray from the facts of the Bible. I believe children have to be entertained to elicit learning because straight facts tend to be boring. Evrery child has to learn about life in some way and it helps if the parents at least know more about life than they do. My guess is that most parents are not very good theologians.

I believe a church should taech what it believes but I believe it to be incorrect in this case. God forgives a lot.

I believe God is the judge of what is love and what is hate, so an attempt to judge God only points out the fallibility of the person trying to do so.

I believe God is acceptable but Chistian God suggests that Chistians have a different God when it is more likely that we just have a different view of HIm.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
I believe that there is a supreme force that created the bases of the whole world, including the living things, and that force is a single and unique God higher than any beings we know of. A god that does not need worshiping but the only one who deserves it. I believe that basically all religions and beliefs that has it similar to this, follow this same God but with different interpretations of the nature of that God. Everything else comes at least in second place to that main belief.

I take the above as a fact of my own, not a fact that I impose on others. This means it is a fact and not a fact at the same time, depending on the context.

Edit:
(This is important)

Before anyone consider my post above; @Theweirdtophat , did you intend to have this thread in a debate section t raise debates or did you just want to find different beliefs about the topic?
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
I believe the scientific method is the most important intellectual instrument we have developed as a species and that its presence in the present-day human condition leaves conventional religion relatively redundant and only functional as a form of fictional/quasi-history hybrid media. I believe that any conception of god is suspended entirely by an individual's belief or disbelief in the concept and is so broadly subjective that belief/disbelief in god could necessarily mean a belief in anything.

Ultimately, the characteristics that we as a species have evolved to this point serve to illuminate only fragile truths and our perception of reality is suspended by entirely our arbitrarily evolved senses; this being said, it is impossible for any human to express any sweeping quantum perception of truth but only bear witness to it and acknowledge that the possibilities of everything are endless and that the universe entertains an infinite amount of alternative dimensions.

I believe that we underwent a period of rapid intellectual and social evolution around 10,000BCE when our species was exposed to psychedelic and psychoactive plants leading to an evolved ability to reason, to practice sedentary agriculture, to transcend the mammalian experience, to harness both pleasure and emotional security and entertain a marketplace for the discussion of ideas.

Since then, we have been essentially repeating the same reproductive process perennially from generation to generation as we behave in ways that remixes every experience that has preceded it; this is where my interpretation of Jungian philosophy takes off and I believe that we, as individuals, are experiencing an illusion of free will while our subconscious has already made our decisions for us as we progress through our lives and basically use our bodies as actors on the stage of life.

Once western culture revisited the psychedelic experience last century, we have seen rapid advancement in the human condition and understanding of ourselves. I believe that the desired destiny of our collective consciousness had been perpetually skewed and perverted over the last 3000 years or so with all the damage the sematic religions have inflicted on human evolution and deeply seeded psychological conceptions of self perseveration and fear of "the other" leading to patriotic, religious and otherwise megalomaniacal disasters in those 3000 years.

All this being said, I believe that the universe indeed does run according to some grand principal that runs through the very little we can perceive and experience and the infinite sea of physical and metaphysical phenomenon that we don't have access to with the faculties of a well-adjusted human. I identify with transhumanism on this basis in the sense that I believe psychedelic drug use (most notably LSD and DMT), transcendent/overwhelming forms of meditation and certain shades of what the medical profession would regard as "mental illness" are the key to progressing as a species and having any hope of evolving into something greater than what we are today.

Timothy Leary's 8-circuit model of human consciousness provides a comprehensive structure for how the mind works and allows for my conception of what the desired things of the collective unconsciousness actually are. People today seem to continue concerns about issues such as race, class, philosophy, etc, but I see our presence on earth to be one that will only truly improve if our intrinsic fear of "the other" and the unknown is dispelled, the concept of "culture" is recognised to be an outdated, undesirable and counterproductive trait, that all borders are broken down and human solidarity is not only established but extends to all forms of life and material on earth. Once this is established, we can live happily, peacefully, continue to privilege progress, transcendence and creativity and we can explore space to support and maintain those ends and further our understanding of ourselves and the greater universe. Unfortunately, I think we're a long way off and will probably require at least another evolutionary leap into a higher form of life than humans; if I was betting, I'd say we'll all kill ourselves and the planet before that ever happens.
 

Sundance

pursuing the Divine Beloved
Premium Member
As for me, I'll break my beliefs down into general label(s) as well as into the specifics:

My overarching label is ‘Eclectic Christo-pagan'.

Specifically speaking, as a student of all of the different forms of religion, and a Black American, I mix all different strands of Christian faith and practice — mostly Pentecostalism/Charismatic Christianity, elements of Catholicism, and [Christian] Spiritualism — together, along with elements borrowed from Druidry, Wicca, Hoodoo, Louisiana Voodoo, Hinduism, and ‘New Age Spirituality’ (whatever that is).

Even more specifically, I believe in:

1) the Trinity and Triple Goddess;

2) seven degrees of various lesser beings, some good, others evil, others neutral;

3) a mix of Heaven/Hell/Purgatory, and symbolic retribution (Dante's Inferno, anyone?)

4) the use of different items such as Bibles, Crucifix necklaces/Rosary beads, potions, amulets, symbols/sigils, or really anything one considers sacred or holy, as weapons against evil spirits;

5) the sacredness of the larger Universe, Nature and the Earth (as I believe that God and Goddess inhabit all of Their creation).
 

Noa

Active Member
I never know how to answer this sort of question.

Edit: I suppose I can give a less snarky response. I am currently undecided between Christianity and atheism.
 
Last edited:

JoStories

Well-Known Member
I am a follower of eastern paths most aptly described as Buddhist. I also believe in God but not in the traditional way that most monotheistic faiths do. I believe much as Quintessence does that one's faith is best experienced as expression of that path.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I myself believe in nothing, everything can change from day to day, why then cling to a particular belief system ?.
 

Timothy Bryce

Active Member
I myself believe in nothing, everything can change from day to day, why then cling to a particular belief system ?.

Personally, this feels like it resonates with my roots: the appreciation and acceptance that everything in the universe is transient; most importantly, consciousness. Additionally, I would say that my having some semblance of a belief system serves me to make sense of my perception of the universe and my place in it as an egotistical human being - this is something that I'm only starting to come to terms with recently. Until the last couple of years, I had never found it important.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Personally, this feels like it resonates with my roots: the appreciation and acceptance that everything in the universe is transient; most importantly, consciousness. Additionally, I would say that my having some semblance of a belief system serves me to make sense of my perception of the universe and my place in it as an egotistical human being - this is something that I'm only starting to come to terms with recently. Until the last couple of years, I had never found it important.
I think I feel the same way, I might use different worlds, but words can never really describe what IS, and belief systems only stagnate that which IS, and for me life is ever flowing, I cannot dam a particular part of that flow and call it my belief, but that's how I feel, that is my truth.
 

BenTheBeliever

Active Member
I am a born again. I believe in the risen son of God. I believe in prayer. I believe God came down to die for our sins. I believe we are also heading toward the rapture and the only way into Heaven is through Christ.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
I'm a Gnostic and I believe that this world is a limiting trap for spiritual beings maintained (possibly hijacked) by a psychopathic, vampiric intelligence/intelligences called the Demiurge (which is either a being, beings, a system or a combination of all three.) There are some positives, but they tend to be outweighed by the negatives. The beauty that exists in this realm is a pale reflection of the world beyond, imo. This realm is like a testing ground for souls in many ways. There are advanced beings who have interacted with humans to teach us the truth of our existence and the way out. Lucifer (Satan to His enemies) is the chief of these beings, imo. Lilith is His Consort and the first human to achieve Enlightenment, becoming a powerful Goddess. Lucifer has male/female, masculine/feminine aspects and can appear under many guises, such as Venus. As a fully Realized Being, He can take on any form He wishes (shapeshift).

For example, this is Lucifer:

lucifer_by_caelicorn.jpg


But this is also Lucifer:

Ninth-Gate-1999-Emmanuelle-Seigner-pic-11.jpg


So is this:

clip_image01016.jpg


As for the afterlife, I believe in reincarnation, but that this itself is a trap. The point is to break free from the cycle by reclaiming your own divinity and power. No one will save you/us but yourself/ourselves.
 

s13ep

42
I'm a Gnostic and I believe that this world is a limiting trap for spiritual beings maintained (possibly hijacked) by a psychopathic, vampiric intelligence/intelligences called the Demiurge (which is either a being, beings, a system or a combination of all three.) There are some positives, but they tend to be outweighed by the negatives. The beauty that exists in this realm is a pale reflection of the world beyond, imo. This realm is like a testing ground for souls in many ways. There are advanced beings who have interacted with humans to teach us the truth of our existence and the way out. Lucifer (Satan to His enemies) is the chief of these beings, imo. Lilith is His Consort and the first human to achieve Enlightenment, becoming a powerful Goddess. Lucifer has male/female, masculine/feminine aspects and can appear under many guises, such as Venus. As a fully Realized Being, He can take on any form He wishes (shapeshift).

For example, this is Lucifer:

lucifer_by_caelicorn.jpg


But this is also Lucifer:

Ninth-Gate-1999-Emmanuelle-Seigner-pic-11.jpg


So is this:

clip_image01016.jpg


As for the afterlife, I believe in reincarnation, but that this itself is a trap. The point is to break free from the cycle by reclaiming your own divinity and power. No one will save you/us but yourself/ourselves.
Lucifer is within as well as without. I've been a Luciferian, at some point; a classic Baphomet.

However, as you quite rightfully put, there is an imbalance between good and evil, especially in this world. If Lucifer is all one worships, I believe that, one will fail, for one can't always fall from the skies, into the void, and one does not because one must make use of heaven. I think, Luciferian-ism, represents balance between good and evil, but where one is more akin to evil, whether by choice or not.

There is such thing in my eyes as a good evil and then a good-less evil. Lucifer isn't 'good-less', in my opinion!
 
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