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What do you feel is wrong with atheism?

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Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Rolling_Stone said:
hehe. It philosophical difficulties, mostly. Infinity implies indivisibility of reality and, like materialism, can't explain diversity in this context, much less consciousness of diversity.

Note: Posts following mine only confirm my assessment of atheism's bias and self-centeredness.

Atheists should learn what religion is about before talking about it.
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And yet, infinity still seems to imply diversity of reality and the divisibilty of consciousness. Go figure.
 
G

GadFly

Active Member
L0gic said:
And alot can be said about the weakness in christianity. No belief is perfect and christianity is no exception. It's pointless to try and get someone to believe in something they don't want to. It'd be pointless for me to get you to believe there is no god, and likewise, pointless for you to make me believe in your god.

You have to get through your head that you're not better than anyone else. An "intellectual" review of an atheist from your view is likely to butcher things up, so by your perspective it will be seen as wrong. It's likely to be too subjective and yet again, pointless. You'd have to view it objectively, and from your post, I doubt that would be the case.

This can go on and on. You say that christians won't believe in atheist's lies, and some atheists say you continue to believe in your lies. It goes around and around in a never-ending circle where there will be no winner as it's too subjective. You may think you're the winner, and an atheist may think their a winner. However, from another person's objective view, it's likely that nobody will have won and this accusation of lies will simply continue over and over again.

I hope you have better things to do in life than to put yourself in a never-ending circle. That's my two cents.
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You offer a very good two cents. There was sarcasm in my suggestion for an intellectual review of what I had written. From what has been handed out by the atheist selots on this forum, it was surprising to receive an intelligent reply. You are very correct that a debate leading to who lies is headed for a continual circle where no body wins.

Your sarcaisum was very well taken also. The GadFly does appear to be better in this debate than the selots that oppose God. The first error you make is in a seemingly truthful statement you make that most fair minded people would accept: " No belief is perfect and christianity is no exception." Well said. This is true about all world religions. We give you this point. GadFly does not know of a perfect religion. Our debate, however, is not about religion - it's the God Factor. Welcome to your first introduction to atheistic logic. By changing your premise to religion instead of God, you do change the subject of debate. Is this what you meant by butchering things up?

We do agree here:" It's pointless to try and get someone to believe in something they don't want to." Why do atheist bother to argue the point there is no God? Theist argue because Christians do not want people to overlook that there is a God. Atheist can not state a valid reason to not believe, yet, they do not believe. Now, Mr. LOgic, how logical is that? That is a question that only atheistic logic can answer.

The GadFly will not form an opinion of you yet. but, I hope it was the truth and not an untruth that you hoped that I have better things to do with my life than be trapped in a circle. The atheist and me, around and around, trapped for life. Perhaps you will share some truth with us that will help break the circle of unbelief?The problem here is that atheist don't believe in truth, but thanks for sharing.
GadFly
 
G

GadFly

Active Member
The Voice of Reason said:
This entire post is riddled with so many logical fallacies, I don't know where to start.

When you claim that good behaviour is based on Christian ethics, you lose any chance of claiming credibility.

I re-read your post, and there isn't a single paragraph in which you don't paint with such a broad brush that the points you are trying to make are lost in the rant.

If you wish to make an argument against atheism, please try to limit your diatribe to a single point. You'll probably still be out in left field, but at least the reader will have a decent chance to follow your argument.
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Another good example of atheistic logic. Thank you for the object lesson. Care to point out 2 0r 3 fallacies? Can't recognizes the self evident truth, can you? we live in the USA, the land of Christian ethics. Try to get a job in a bank and first tell them you do not believe in Christian ethics. How much credibility do you think you will gain in the bank or many other places in the real world with your atheistic logic? This forum is not a representation of real life nor is your philosophy of life. Use the broad brush theory to sweep the rubbish out of the thinking process of atheist. To be able to critiques an argument with out presenting a single point of view is an amazing feat. How do you do that?
GadFly:shout
GadFly
 
R

Rolling_Stone

Well-Known Member
robtex said:
Maybe what is wrong with atheism is part of the "skeptic in the room affect". If myself or my atheist and even agnostic friends are around during a theological discussion many (not all but many) believers become very reserved in talking about their faith and are almost embarrassed and uneasy in putting forth positive affirmations of their faith. However if they are unaware I am an atheist or that an atheist/agnostic is among they by contrast they are almost always much braver and more confident in their expressing their faith.

I call that the "skeptic in the room affect" The confidence of the community is affected by the perception one might be skeptical of their faith-based idea. A percentage of a group of believers will be affected by this perception and the net value of the projection of the faith in terms of confidence and personal conviction as seem from the sum of the group is adversely affected.


so maybe something that is wrong with atheism is that it makes it harder for some to verbally qualify their theism.
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"The skeptic in the room effect" is quite real. But religion isn't all about beliefs, something atheists can't seem to get--as your post illustrates. The God-knowing person uses conceptions, not to convince unbelievers, but for the edification and mutual satisfaction of believers.

Atheists don't "get it" because, to them, everything is about ideas. Reason, though, is not reasonable if it fails to take into account the whole of human experience--and not everything we experience can be put into words. "Man's consciousness of moral duty and his spiritual idealism represent a value level--an experiential reality--which is difficult of symbolization." (UB) Just look at the posts above for an example. Atheists don't know the difference between "facts" and "truth" so they are critical of those who perceive the difference.

Atheism isn't dogmatic? :areyoucra
 
G

GadFly

Active Member
camanintx said:
What are "Christian" ethics and how do they differ from other ethics?
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It was just something I said to make a point, nothing super wise or a debate topic. Did you get the point? It was an answer about credibility. Perhaps you could respond to that.You do have your gun loaded. do you not. It would be ashame to waste a fresh load.
 
Magic Man

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
Rolling_Stone said:
hehe. It philosophical difficulties, mostly. Infinity implies indivisibility of reality and, like materialism, can't explain diversity in this context, much less consciousness of diversity.

Note: Posts following mine only confirm my assessment of atheism's bias and self-centeredness.

Atheists should learn what religion is about before talking about it.
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Again with the big words that say nothing. The sad part is that many atheists understand religion better than many religious people. I think the only thing your posts or any in reaction to them confirm is your bias and self-centeredness. I'm not claiming I'm better than anybody, whereas that is the main gist of most of your posts.
 
Papersock

Papersock

Lucid Dreamer
GadFly said:
You first.
Explain the different types of truth and I will choose one.
GadFly
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There are not actually different types of truth. But you said atheists do not believe in truth. So I was wondering what you meant by “truth,” and why you think atheists don’t believe in it.
 
S

Sententia

Well-Known Member
Interesting thing I learned about einstein is that he did not believe in a personal god. However he did believe in a god and hated being quoted to justify atheism.

Of course his idea of an atheist was actually a little nieve but in hindsight probably well founded. Einstein, who was increidibly astute, believed noone should believe in a god that mettles with or will take into account mans everyday activities. That was the cause of conflict all across the globe.

I, being an atheist, learned quite a bit from einstein. Definitely we can not disprove GOD. However no personal god will ever withstand anytype of evidence.

Another interesting thing... Einstein did not believe in free will. However he said if WE ACT like we have Free Will and HOLD people responsible for their actions then we can live in a Civilized society.... As people will be affected by this irregardless of free will.

He actually gave quite a few memorable quotes on both god and free will and a few speeches here and there. (Mostly recorded as news paper acticles... Did Einstein believe in god was a ridicously popular topic for americans in his late life...)

It is striking... a theorectical scientist... One who avoided the lab and based almost all of his theories on thought experiments leaving the proof of his ideas to other people attained near movie star status in our country. And he was a german jew amongst americans... Anti War... pacifist... Zionist... Denied the existant of a personal god... Yet everyone accepted him.

He is still loved to this day.

In short... if anything is wrong with atheism... which is at its core nothing more then a disbelief in god... then it is because people try to make it more then it is.

There is no evidence for god... yes... but nor is there any evidence against.

This is to the general concept of being more powerful then us or one which exists in a higher dimension than us....

The concept of a personal god whose ridiculous stories are outlined in the bible and other ridiculous texts is just sheer fantasy. Ancient minds trying to make sense of an ancient world. Those that harbor such rudimentary and stunted beliefs today are just trying in vain to make sense of our world today. Driven by fear, confusion and indoctrination we really cant hold them accountable. They couldnt choose anything else anyways. They are what they are.

We all are what we are and should be accepted as we are. :angel2:
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
If you read Dawkins, Einstein was essentially an atheist, his views on god were allegorical not real, unfortunate in that some people quote him as an agnostic or even as a theist, but that simply isn't true.
 
fantome profane

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
logician said:
If you read Dawkins, Einstein was essentially an atheist, his views on god were allegorical not real, unfortunate in that some people quote him as an agnostic or even as a theist, but that simply isn't true.
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If you read Dawkins you will get Dawkins opinion that Einstein was essentially an atheist. Nothing more than that.

Einstein had a wonderful and subtle philosophy, and Dawkins does not do it justice.
 
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