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What do you hate about Christ (Christianity)?

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
What do you dislike about Jesus?

I ask mods to be lenient to those who vent their grievances, for I'm trying to understand hatred for Christianity and it's founder. My goal is not to stir up insults towards a Religion, but rather my goal is to understand better why people despise the religion and it's founder, and some of that can be learned even by letting them vent their hatred. I have gone through times where I hated Christianity and hated Jesus, even hated hearing the name. I'm just trying to understand why. (It's kind of difficult to hate someone who loves his enemies and forgives those who crucified him.)

If you hate Christ or hate Christianity, please be honest and transparent, but in a way that will educate me and perhaps others who share this interest, not in a way that violated the rules.

I don't want any hatred in my heart. However, there is something I still hate about Christianity. This idea that those who die without accepting Jesus as Lord and savior go to hell to be miserable for ever is just ridiculous, but so prevalent. Does he really love them? If he's going to send them to hell for simply not believing a doctrine about an unseen entity, how could that in any way be reconciled with love. He told us to love our enemies. If he doesn't follow his own advice, doesn't that make him a hypocrite? So, the hell Dogma is actually very unchristian in my opinion. To hell with it! :p

This common belief that a person cannot be enlightened, informed, rehabilitated, and convert after death bothers me as well.

I like the person in my perceptions of Jesus. Yeshua BarYosef of Nazareth.

But he wasn't the founder of Christianity, that was Paul + others.

This is what I dislike about extreme Christianity:-

Anti-Islamic Hatred
Anti-Sexual individuality and freedom
Anti Gay partnership and marriage
Far Right politics
Pro Death Penalty

..... in fact, whatever threy want, however they want it, they can cherry pick a Hebrew Law or Pauline rule to fit.

Look at this lovely sentence, which once (and still could) support elitist classes over slaving masses..... ?

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear Ephesians 6:5 :shrug:

But I like moderate Christianity and how it is reviewing it's true history and progressing in humanities.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
What do you dislike about Jesus?

I ask mods to be lenient to those who vent their grievances, for I'm trying to understand hatred for Christianity and it's founder. My goal is not to stir up insults towards a Religion, but rather my goal is to understand better why people despise the religion and it's founder, and some of that can be learned even by letting them vent their hatred. I have gone through times where I hated Christianity and hated Jesus, even hated hearing the name. I'm just trying to understand why. (It's kind of difficult to hate someone who loves his enemies and forgives those who crucified him.)

If you hate Christ or hate Christianity, please be honest and transparent, but in a way that will educate me and perhaps others who share this interest, not in a way that violated the rules.

I don't want any hatred in my heart. However, there is something I still hate about Christianity. This idea that those who die without accepting Jesus as Lord and savior go to hell to be miserable for ever is just ridiculous, but so prevalent. Does he really love them? If he's going to send them to hell for simply not believing a doctrine about an unseen entity, how could that in any way be reconciled with love. He told us to love our enemies. If he doesn't follow his own advice, doesn't that make him a hypocrite? So, the hell Dogma is actually very unchristian in my opinion. To hell with it! :p

This common belief that a person cannot be enlightened, informed, rehabilitated, and convert after death bothers me as well.
All I want to say about this is what I say about all religions. Part of what I see hiding the light of God in all of them, and even repelling people away from it, is the attachment of their followers to their beliefs, worshipping their beliefs about God, in the place of God.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Are you saying that all humans have sinful DNA?

Is sinful DNA part of the flesh of all humans?

Romans 5:12 seems to imply that sin is 'inherited'....how can it not be passed on through the DNA? We all die. The thing that brought death into the world was sin.

Jesus had to have his life transferred from heaven to the womb of a sinful human woman in order to be born as a human. She was not wicked, but born in sin like every other human. (Psalm 51:5)
Adam was not created with any defects that would have caused his death. He was mortal but not subject to death from any natural cause. Disobedience brought death, not only to the first humans, but to the whole human race who were designed to live forever in the paradise home that God created for them.

You seem to be implying that Adam didn't have sinful DNA but yet he sinned anyway. That would mean that Adam's sin caused all humans after him to have sinful DNA.

Adam and his wife were created perfect...with no sin or propensity to sin. But they had free will, so the desire for the fruit came from the prompting of a third party.....one who had already defected from his God, made the fruit seem very tempting indeed. But a temptation is just that....rational, consequential thinking and loyalty to their generous God should have put the temptation out of contention, especially with a death penalty staring them in the face. But the serpent lied to the woman about the penalty and she believed him. Adam was not deceived however and he took the fruit for a completely different reason, but the outcome was the same. Sin opened up a whole new life for them....one that would have made them have deep regrets about their choices. Sin and death were passed on to all their offspring as a result of their choices. Jesus came to pay the debt because no one else could....no one else had perfect DNA to offer in exchange.

But it's not DNA in itself that is sinful. What makes DNA sinful is God's LAW.

The introduction of God's command to Adam caused Adam's DNA to become sinful.

Exactly. Before they ate of the fruit, they were physically perfect....but after they ate, their DNA was somehow affected and the propensity to sin came to dominate human thinking and activities. As a knowledge of evil entered the world, so humans started to act out their evil thoughts and inclinations. Within one generation, a murderer was produced....such is the power of sin.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
What do you dislike about Jesus?

I ask mods to be lenient to those who vent their grievances, for I'm trying to understand hatred for Christianity and it's founder. My goal is not to stir up insults towards a Religion, but rather my goal is to understand better why people despise the religion and it's founder, and some of that can be learned even by letting them vent their hatred. I have gone through times where I hated Christianity and hated Jesus, even hated hearing the name. I'm just trying to understand why. (It's kind of difficult to hate someone who loves his enemies and forgives those who crucified him.)

If you hate Christ or hate Christianity, please be honest and transparent, but in a way that will educate me and perhaps others who share this interest, not in a way that violated the rules.

I don't want any hatred in my heart. However, there is something I still hate about Christianity. This idea that those who die without accepting Jesus as Lord and savior go to hell to be miserable for ever is just ridiculous, but so prevalent. Does he really love them? If he's going to send them to hell for simply not believing a doctrine about an unseen entity, how could that in any way be reconciled with love. He told us to love our enemies. If he doesn't follow his own advice, doesn't that make him a hypocrite? So, the hell Dogma is actually very unchristian in my opinion. To hell with it! :p

This common belief that a person cannot be enlightened, informed, rehabilitated, and convert after death bothers me as well.

I don't hate anything about Christ or Christianity. I see Christianity as a community to be divided, often removed from the original Teachings of Christ and no longer able to meet the needs of humanity with all its diversity.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"I like your Christ. I do not like your christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
-- Mahatma Gandhi. (apocryphal)

Christianity makes a wonderful slave religion. Disdain wealth and prosperity. Be humble, harmless and helpful. Obey your masters. Your reward will be in heaven, after death.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Jesus was born into this world in the same way as any other human. His conception, however was not like any other human. Holy spirit produced this human being who did not carry any of his mother's sinful DNA. He was mortal, but sinless. If he was not sinless, then he could not have redeemed mankind from their sins by paying the debt that Adam left for his children. He had to be exact equivalent of Adam to fulfill God's law..."a life for a life".....a sinless life for a sinless life. Why do you think he had to come from heaven to do this? There were no other sinless humans.

He is called "the last Adam" because he paid for what the first Adam did, both being without sin, (no sin nature) but with free will. (ability to make their own choices) Jesus proved by his course of obedience that Adam could have done the same, in spite of satan's temptations.

Being 100% human meant that he was not 100% God. Since God is not 200% anything.
Sin is defined as the transgression of the law of God. Where there is no law there is no sin. What the law has done is put everyone under the law of sin and death. That means that when Adam disobeyed God and sinned we all sinned because we were in him and his sin and therefore die as he did.
None of us are guilty of Adam's sin, but we do all have the misfortune of being like him, of the same flesh, and die for it.
Christ himself had the misfortune of being under the same law as the rest of us. He was also in Adam when Adam sinned by being a son of Adam(100% human). Therefore death had lordship/dominion over him too because he was of the same flesh that becomes sinful under God's law.

Christ's glory comes from not simply having free will but by having the same sinful nature(made so by God's command) as Adam and overcoming it. If you take away the struggles of the sinful flesh from him you rob him of his glory.
Romans 5:12 seems to imply that sin is 'inherited'....how can it not be passed on through the DNA? We all die. The thing that brought death into the world was sin.

Jesus had to have his life transferred from heaven to the womb of a sinful human woman in order to be born as a human. She was not wicked, but born in sin like every other human. (Psalm 51:5)
Adam was not created with any defects that would have caused his death. He was mortal but not subject to death from any natural cause. Disobedience brought death, not only to the first humans, but to the whole human race who were designed to live forever in the paradise home that God created for them.



Adam and his wife were created perfect...with no sin or propensity to sin. But they had free will, so the desire for the fruit came from the prompting of a third party.....one who had already defected from his God, made the fruit seem very tempting indeed. But a temptation is just that....rational, consequential thinking and loyalty to their generous God should have put the temptation out of contention, especially with a death penalty staring them in the face. But the serpent lied to the woman about the penalty and she believed him. Adam was not deceived however and he took the fruit for a completely different reason, but the outcome was the same. Sin opened up a whole new life for them....one that would have made them have deep regrets about their choices. Sin and death were passed on to all their offspring as a result of their choices. Jesus came to pay the debt because no one else could....no one else had perfect DNA to offer in exchange.



Exactly. Before they ate of the fruit, they were physically perfect....but after they ate, their DNA was somehow affected and the propensity to sin came to dominate human thinking and activities. As a knowledge of evil entered the world, so humans started to act out their evil thoughts and inclinations. Within one generation, a murderer was produced....such is the power of sin.

No ones DNA was changed. Sin is the transgression of the law of God. And it begins with having desires of the flesh. The law is made weak by the flesh. When God introduced law to Adam that law was made weak by Adam's flesh.
 

calm

Active Member
@Deeje
You are right, the word "hell" does not really appear in the Bible, but the Bible describes a hell. The word "hell" is just a term for a description in the Bible.
Jesus, for example, describes hell as a place where the worm(soul) does not die and the fire does not go out.
Mark 9:47-48
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hellfire:
48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.


In Revelation 1:18 Jesus also distinguishes between death and hell.
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


The devil will come to a place where he will be tormented forever.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.


It is also said that the people who join the devil will come to a place where they will be tormented forever.
Revelation 14:10
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.



There is not only eternal hell, but also pre-hell. A pre-hell where the wicked will dwell until judgment, where they will also be tormented.
Jesus clearly mentions this in Luke 16:23.
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.



Peter also mentions the pre-hell, the angels who went to the earth and had sexual intercourse with the human women(Genesis 6:1-4) were brought to pre-hell where they must also stay until the day of judgment.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.


You believe that the body itself is the soul. And you believe that man has no spirit. But both are wrong because the Bible teaches and distinguishes body, soul and spirit.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
Now the God of Peace Himself, and you may have kept your soul and soul blameless at the coming of Jesus.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


And because you believe that the body itself is the soul, you claim that the person has no consciousness after his death. But as already mentioned above, the soul is not the body and the man therefore still has a consciousness because the soul is still alive. The souls are in the realm of the dead. John saw the souls and he also saw how the souls spoke to God.

Revelation 6:9
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?


Jesus also distinguished between soul and body. Man is able to kill a man's body but not his soul. .
Luke 12:4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There is a difference between believing you are right and actually being right. Actually being right about something is possible. But how does a person know he is actually right?

When it comes to religion, I don't think there is any real way to actually know.

I suppose if someone claims that they're right because God came to them in the night and spoke to them, that would be one way. It may not be believable to others, but the individual who is visited by God might feel that's sufficient for his own belief that he's "right."

But unless they're claiming to have been visited by God and spoken to directly, then I'm not sure. If someone says "I'm right because I read this in this 2000-year-old book," and that's all they had to go on, then expressing certainty is the last thing they should be doing.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
When it comes to religion, I don't think there is any real way to actually know.

I suppose if someone claims that they're right because God came to them in the night and spoke to them, that would be one way. It may not be believable to others, but the individual who is visited by God might feel that's sufficient for his own belief that he's "right."

But unless they're claiming to have been visited by God and spoken to directly, then I'm not sure. If someone says "I'm right because I read this in this 2000-year-old book," and that's all they had to go on, then expressing certainty is the last thing they should be doing.

Not to mention, and I may be wrong, for every different doctrine/interpretation on hell, there are "seemingly" Bible verses that can back it up.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
What do you dislike about Jesus?

I ask mods to be lenient to those who vent their grievances, for I'm trying to understand hatred for Christianity and it's founder. My goal is not to stir up insults towards a Religion, but rather my goal is to understand better why people despise the religion and it's founder, and some of that can be learned even by letting them vent their hatred. I have gone through times where I hated Christianity and hated Jesus, even hated hearing the name. I'm just trying to understand why. (It's kind of difficult to hate someone who loves his enemies and forgives those who crucified him.)

If you hate Christ or hate Christianity, please be honest and transparent, but in a way that will educate me and perhaps others who share this interest, not in a way that violated the rules.

I don't want any hatred in my heart. However, there is something I still hate about Christianity. This idea that those who die without accepting Jesus as Lord and savior go to hell to be miserable for ever is just ridiculous, but so prevalent. Does he really love them? If he's going to send them to hell for simply not believing a doctrine about an unseen entity, how could that in any way be reconciled with love. He told us to love our enemies. If he doesn't follow his own advice, doesn't that make him a hypocrite? So, the hell Dogma is actually very unchristian in my opinion. To hell with it! :p

This common belief that a person cannot be enlightened, informed, rehabilitated, and convert after death bothers me as well.

Christianity? Better than some religions, worse than others. Its not the religion but some of the religious i have issues with. Judgement of difference, their way is better than yours, the claim to morality, loathing of science and the hypocrisy, the heard instinct and child indoctrination all bug me. Religion should be above that.
 
Jesus of the bible I think is a very lovable character. Although highly unlikely that the things attributed to Jesus in the scriptures really happened, since it's stories passed down verbally for generations until written down.

Paul turned Jesus into Christ and invented the Christian religion.
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
I don't want any hatred in my heart. However, there is something I still hate about Christianity. This idea that those who die without accepting Jesus as Lord and savior go to hell to be miserable for ever is just ridiculous, but so prevalent. Does he really love them? If he's going to send them to hell for simply not believing a doctrine about an unseen entity, how could that in any way be reconciled with love. He told us to love our enemies. If he doesn't follow his own advice, doesn't that make him a hypocrite? So, the hell Dogma is actually very unchristian in my opinion. To hell with it! :p

While I can't say that I hate Christianity (it's far too broad a spectrum for that) this is a major point of contention for me. I'm aware that this isn't something that all Christians believe and that Hell is by no means exclusive to Christianity. For those who do believe in it though, It's a concept that strikes me as utterly sadistic.

The idea of eternal suffering is horrific beyond expression. To couple that with the idea of an entirely good god and the righteousness of such a punishment is downright dangerous. Putting aside the staggering mental gymnastics and excuses required to reconcile those two beliefs, holding that burning somebody forever is justified means that there are no limits to what can be done to a person. Any and all torture, coercion, bigotry and political manipulation can be justified by the claim that it's all in the name of saving souls.

Eternal hell makes God a monster and permits his followers to perform monstrous acts in his name.
 

Ora

New Member
Not to take away from the ongoing conversation, there's been some interesting answers on this topic already. I just think looking at the hatred towards, or at the very least the detesting of, specific things with regards to Christianity ignores the bigger picture. In my opinion, the hypocrisy, the treatment of women as second class citizens or even property, the historical inaccuracies, the contradictions, the stealing of stories from other religions and belief systems, the killing and torture of non-Christians, the outright lies, the pompous spending on $90 million+ churches, the peddling of bronze age fairy tales as historical fact, and so many other major issues speak for themselves. The bigger picture is how unnecessary religion is as a whole. If for no other reason, of which there are many, that it goes against Occam's Razor, and probably should be categorized under something like Henlon's Razor because that's basically more appropriate. A creator isn't necessary, even for arguments of moral authority. To say that people would have no morals if religion didn't exist is to ignore the millions and millions of people who live perfectly moral lives without it. I think it was Mark Twain who said, the best cure for Christianity is to read the bible.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
When it comes to religion, I don't think there is any real way to actually know.

I suppose if someone claims that they're right because God came to them in the night and spoke to them, that would be one way. It may not be believable to others, but the individual who is visited by God might feel that's sufficient for his own belief that he's "right."

But unless they're claiming to have been visited by God and spoken to directly, then I'm not sure. If someone says "I'm right because I read this in this 2000-year-old book," and that's all they had to go on, then expressing certainty is the last thing they should be doing.

Someone can't be right if they read something in Scripture without being consist with the whole of it. that's what i find has happened in the sectarian churches.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
What do you dislike about Jesus?

I ask mods to be lenient to those who vent their grievances, for I'm trying to understand hatred for Christianity and it's founder. My goal is not to stir up insults towards a Religion, but rather my goal is to understand better why people despise the religion and it's founder, and some of that can be learned even by letting them vent their hatred. I have gone through times where I hated Christianity and hated Jesus, even hated hearing the name. I'm just trying to understand why. (It's kind of difficult to hate someone who loves his enemies and forgives those who crucified him.)

If you hate Christ or hate Christianity, please be honest and transparent, but in a way that will educate me and perhaps others who share this interest, not in a way that violated the rules.

I don't want any hatred in my heart. However, there is something I still hate about Christianity. This idea that those who die without accepting Jesus as Lord and savior go to hell to be miserable for ever is just ridiculous, but so prevalent. Does he really love them? If he's going to send them to hell for simply not believing a doctrine about an unseen entity, how could that in any way be reconciled with love. He told us to love our enemies. If he doesn't follow his own advice, doesn't that make him a hypocrite? So, the hell Dogma is actually very unchristian in my opinion. To hell with it! :p

This common belief that a person cannot be enlightened, informed, rehabilitated, and convert after death bothers me as well.

I don't think many people hate Jesus, they just hate the Christians who act totally opposite of Jesus.
 
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