What do you think about a recent proposal to let addicts die of overdoses?

[Shadow Wolf]

Some of the funding already exists via current government programs. If institutionalization become policy many of the existing voluntary programs which receive government funding are no longer necessary. That funding can reallocated to programs under said new policy. Income assistance which is normally used for food and housing likewise can be reallocated as a patient no longer requires income assistance as housing and food is provided.

I mostly agree with that. However, with things like housing, people still have bills outside of treatment. And it would have to checked against the cost of having someone do all the paperwork that would be involved in such a thing. In some cases, what would come out of the food stamps and go into the food while in rehab would barely cover an hour of work from one of the few people who would handle those things. It may be that end of the the cost of the administrative/bureaucratic bill involved may exceed what it would save. In a way similar to how welfare drug testing has ended up costing states more to operate than it has saved from cutting off those who test positive.
And then there are those who also depend on the same food stamps and housing assistance but don't necessarily have it under their name and didn't end up in rehab. Addidcts often have families, and there is a decent chance they've been punished enough up to this point.

 

[Spiderman]

It could really make the world a better place if every addict died of an overdose tommorow.

Most rapes, murders, and crimes are drug or alcohol related. Jeffry Dahmer, Ted Bundy, and so many other killers were alcoholics.

All of my adult arrests were caused by drug-related crimes. God kill us all!

 

[Shad]

I mostly agree with that. However, with things like housing, people still have bills outside of treatment. And it would have to checked against the cost of having someone do all the paperwork that would be involved in such a thing. In some cases, what would come out of the food stamps and go into the food while in rehab would barely cover an hour of work from one of the few people who would handle those things. It may be that end of the the cost of the administrative/bureaucratic bill involved may exceed what it would save. In a way similar to how welfare drug testing has ended up costing states more to operate than it has saved from cutting off those who test positive.
And then there are those who also depend on the same food stamps and housing assistance but don't necessarily have it under their name and didn't end up in rehab. Addidcts often have families, and there is a decent chance they've been punished enough up to this point.

I have little issues with increased costs compared to the alternative now and what I see around my city due to it. Addicts with young family become wards of the state, as they should be, as their parent is an addict. If there are two parents social services switches the primary to the other parent. At least that is how it works here as two parents can not claim assistance as family unit. Sure a new system will need to be developed, treatment and staff costs money and bureaucracy can be slow. However being on my 3rd OD teenage found just walking just this year, let alone adults, I still favour my idea over what the government does now.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

What do you guys think of proposal online to let addicts die after their third overdose? I think it could have merits. If by the third time you still haven't learned, then it seems reasonable to just let them do what they want. In conjunction with more counselling and help for the first or second time overdosers, this could be much more effective by weeding out repeat offenders who soak up public services. The money saved from repeat offenders could be devoted towards helping with drug rehabilitation programs that will ultimately save more people and money.

I'd like to hear some moral and utilitarian arguments for this proposal given the huge problem the United States has with drug overdose. Also, please no fallacious arguments from moral outrage. I'd like arguments from a rational ethics and or a utilitarian perspective.

What's to discuss? No physican or psychiatrist/psychologist would even do this as this is purely unethical and a miscarriage of the hippocatic oath.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It could really make the world a better place if every addict died of an overdose tommorow.

Most rapes, murders, and crimes are drug or alcohol related. Jeffry Dahmer, Ted Bundy, and so many other killers were alcoholics.

All of my adult arrests were caused by drug-related crimes. God kill us all!

How about this: let God start with you first and let everyone else get a chance. Jesus you have zero compassion.

 

[Spiderman]

How about this: let God start with you first and let everyone else get a chance. Jesus you have zero compassion.

Sounds good to me.

However, I have a lot of compassion.

I have seen and experienced the hell of drug and alcohol addiction, and am convinced that for many of us, we would suffer less and cause other people less suffering if we did not exist.

I have lots of compassion. If I was a quadrapalegic for example, the most compassionate thing anybody could do for me is end my suffering.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Sounds good to me.

However, I have a lot of compassion.

I have seen and experienced the hell of drug and alcohol addiction, and am convinced that for many of us, we would suffer less and cause other people less suffering if we did not exist.

I have lots of compassion. If I was a quadrapalegic for example, the most compassionate thing anybody could do for me is end my suffering.

Some people self medicate to cope with pain, and that itself needs to be mitigated because SOME people do not have the proper coping techniques to handle distress in their lives. You are so fixated with death adn I get that, but your delusions for yourself should not be the choice for other addicts as you do not know every addicts story. You don't even know 1% of the world how can you possibly speak on a general level?

 

[Spiderman]

It was my opinion, based on a large amount of drug-addicts and alcoholics I know. It was still just an opinion, and I recognize that.

I have seen how tortured the average addict is. Even after years of sobriety, they are still very wounded suffering people on average (which is why many of them used to begin with) and for many, I would not wish their suffering on my worst enemy.

Some people self medicate to cope with pain, and that itself needs to be mitigated because SOME people do not have the proper coping techniques to handle distress in their lives. You are so fixated with death adn I get that, but your delusions for yourself should not be the choice for other addicts as you do not know every addicts story. You don't even know 1% of the world how can you possibly speak on a general level?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It was my opinion, based on a large amount of drug-addicts and alcoholics I know. It was still just an opinion, and I recognize that.

I have seen how tortured the average addict is. Even after years of sobriety, they are still very wounded suffering people on average (which is why many of them used to begin with) and for many, I would not wish their suffering on my worst enemy.

But yet you wish they were dead considering your generalizations of them being rapists and murders. But yeah okay I'm not going to go back and forth as you say it's your opinion.

 

[Spiderman]

But yet you wish they were dead considering your generalizations of them being rapists and murders. But yeah okay I'm not going to go back and forth as you say it's your opinion.

I didn't say they were all rapists and murderers. I certainly am not. But a high percentage of crimes like that are committed while under the influence, trying to get drug money, or hurting someone who owes them money or ripped them off.

Bottom line is, i have met countless addicts and alcoholics in jail, corrections, AA meetings, hospitals, group homes, homeless shelters, and elsewhere.

They very rarely seem to be happy people. Even those who have been sober a while still have the pain, fear, torment, and sorrow that caused them to use in the first place. The vast majority of Addicts/alcoholics I've met are very manipulative, selfish, or criminals.

I just wouldn't wish their pain and nightmare on anyone else, and they usually cause a lot of harm to others.

Im just forming an opinion from the average alcoholic or addict i have met. They are usually people who suffer a great deal, and I feel it would be better if they did not have that suffering. But there are exceptions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I have seen and experienced the hell of drug and alcohol addiction, and am convinced that for many of us, we would suffer less and cause other people less suffering if we did not exist.

I'm pretty glad those who are addicted aren't killed. Don't forget that is killing someone's mother, brother, aunt, and nephew. And not only that, a supportive family is one of the greatest strengths someone can bring with them into addiction treatment.

What's to discuss? No physican or psychiatrist/psychologist would even do this as this is purely unethical and a miscarriage of the hippocatic oath.

Apparently having no experience, at all, with addiction qualifies one as knowing what will work best with addiction treatment, and gives one more insight into addiction than those who have treated clients with addiction, and lets one know what is going to be a great solution that will motivate people to get off drugs, as well as knowing who will be more successfully treated under such a system.

 

[Spiderman]

I'm pretty glad those who are addicted aren't killed. Don't forget that is killing someone's mother, brother, aunt, and nephew. And not only that, a supportive family is one of the greatest strengths someone can bring with them into addiction treatment.

Apparently having no experience, at all, with addiction qualifies one as knowing what will work best with addiction treatment, and gives one more insight into addiction than those who have treated clients with addiction, and lets one know what is going to be a great solution that will motivate people to get off drugs, as well as knowing who will be more successfully treated under such a system.

Im just thinking about doing unto others as I would have them do unto me.

I have had grand male siezures coming off drugs and alcohol, woken up injured from a fight i didn't remember, stabbed a guy twice with a butcher knife, broke many windows and windshields for no reason, stolen well over a hundred times, hurt others in many ways, broke many bones and other injuries drug-related, and I have seen heroin addicts vomiting and defecating themselves from withdrawls.

If i had a family member living such a nightmare, I would want the same act of kindness and compassion that people often give a dog in agony. They comfortably put them to sleep.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Bottom line is, i have met countless addicts and alcoholics in jail, corrections, AA meetings, hospitals, group homes, homeless shelters, and elsewhere.

You forget I'm a clinician and I too have met andf treated countless. While you have a first hand experience as being a user yourself, I've had the clinical experience to examine in depth the psychopathology of a lot of these users who have been incarcerated. The problem isn't always simply addiction, a lot of times there are confounding factors that contribute to delinquency.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I'm pretty glad those who are addicted aren't killed. Don't forget that is killing someone's mother, brother, aunt, and nephew. And not only that, a supportive family is one of the greatest strengths someone can bring with them into addiction treatment.

Apparently having no experience, at all, with addiction qualifies one as knowing what will work best with addiction treatment, and gives one more insight into addiction than those who have treated clients with addiction, and lets one know what is going to be a great solution that will motivate people to get off drugs, as well as knowing who will be more successfully treated under such a system.

Right exactly. What this stupid idea suggests is that addicts are"incurable" and ought to be discarded from society. So not only are you puting a stigma on those who are dealing with addiction, but also suggesting their demise because of their inability to develop coping skills and an alternative lifestyle?