What do you think about Pope Francis?

[Eliab ben Benjamin]

He seems ok. Makes little difference to me

 

[Kemosloby]

He seems to try not to step on any toes, I think he is the Anti-Trump.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Evidence?

A general impression from reading statements from both.

 

[sayak83]

Please vote and feel free to express your opinion about the pope.

I did not start this thread looking for a debate, but rather just to hear what everyone on here that cares to has to say about him.

I admire him. His spirituality has the aroma of a nicely brewed tea.

 

[Father]

 

[David T]

I respect him. Someone said that the Pope doesn't change the church. That is true if the superficial is all that is seen and understood. While the superficial ( term superficial is derived from the roman God superficialilus the God of idiots.) is God today that God will, die a horrible death, his followers will become bored. This Pope is most certainly not superficial. BTW I cracked myself up on my roman God superficialilus the God of idiots ramble.

 

[robocop (actually)]

I just find it funny that Ratzinger was so conservative and then Francis is kind of a liberal in a lot of ways. I think he does it well and picks the issues carefully to fight for. I just find it funny.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I just find it funny that Ratzinger was so conservative and then Francis is kind of a liberal in a lot of ways. I think he does it well and picks the issues carefully to fight for. I just find it funny.

What differences do you see in their positions? To me, the differences are mainly a matter of presentation style, not the substance of what they're saying.

The only actual difference I'm aware of: certain anti-corruption reforms at the Vatican Bank were implemented under Francis's watch although the problems came to light under Benefict's. However, I can't say that Benedict wouldn't have implemented the reforms if he had more time. I also get the sense that Benedict's lack of action wasn't so much rooted in an acceptance of corruption but in a desire to stick to "spiritual" pursuits and a lack of desire to do "earthly" things like administer a bank.

 

[DavidFirth]

What differences do you see in their positions? To me, the differences are mainly a matter of presentation style, not the substance of what they're saying.

The only actual difference I'm aware of: certain anti-corruption reforms at the Vatican Bank were implemented under Francis's watch although the problems came to light under Benefict's. However, I can't say that Benedict wouldn't have implemented the reforms if he had more time. I also get the sense that Benedict's lack of action wasn't so much rooted in an acceptance of corruption but in a desire to stick to "spiritual" pursuits and a lack of desire to do "earthly" things like administer a bank.

It seemed to me like Pope Benedict's first reaction to a problem was to cover it up, hide it or deny it. Pope Francis confronts it, talks about it and deals with it much more openly. These two popes' personalities are vastly different.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I think he's a PR gimmick trotted out to put a smiling face on a Church which has been discovered to have enabled child abusers and sheltered them across the globe for decades, if not centuries. He will make seemingly inclusive, progressive statements every now and then but I doubt he will change much doctrinally.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It seemed to me like Pope Benedict's first reaction to a problem was to cover it up, hide it or deny it.

Which problems, specifically?

Pope Francis confronts it, talks about it and deals with it much more openly.

Yet Cardinal Law is still being sheltered in Rome.

I think it's a bit premature to decide how open Francis has been. If he has covered anything up, it might not come to light for years or decades.

These two popes' personalities are vastly different.

The two popes are both products of the same church and were elected by largely the same group of cardinals.

In fact, Francis was part of the conclave that elected Benedict.

 

[DavidFirth]

Which problems, specifically?


Yet Cardinal Law is still being sheltered in Rome.

I think it's a bit premature to decide how open Francis has been. If he has covered anything up, it might not come to light for years or decades.


The two popes are both products of the same church and were elected by largely the same group of cardinals.

In fact, Francis was part of the conclave that elected Benedict.

I said, "seemed." I'm not referring to a particular list of problems.

So what if they were elected by the same cardinals? They still have very different personalities. It sounds to me like you just don't like the RCC.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I said, "seemed." I'm not referring to a particular list of problems.

So you didn't have a particular cover-up in mind?

So what if they were elected by the same cardinals? They still have very different personalities.

They were both vetted by largely the same group of people to ensure they have a stance on doctrinal matters this group of people could endorse.

It sounds to me like you just don't like the RCC.

It's more that I don't like hypocrisy. I think Benedict got a lot of flak over his appearance: he looked kinda similar to Emperor Palpatine, so people made him out to be evil.

Then Francis comes along and he doesn't look particularly like a movie villain, so people think he's wonderful.

The message didn't change; it's just being delivered by a fun Italian uncle instead of a stern German professor.

There's a huge double standard here. Benedict had the misfortune of growing up in Germany under the Nazis. He was forced to join the Hitler Youth, but avoided it as best he could at some personal risk. OTOH, Pope Francis is accused of not just living under a dictatorship but actively collaborating with one... yet people call Benedict "the Nazi Pope" and nobody even mentions the allegations against Francis these days.

This different treatment of the two men is deeply hypocritical, IMO.

 

[metis]

I just find it funny that Ratzinger was so conservative and then Francis is kind of a liberal in a lot of ways.

I sorta see PF in much a similar vein as I saw PJXXIII-- like two breaths of fresh air.

 

[metis]

OTOH, Pope Francis is accused of not just living under a dictatorship but actively collaborating with one... yet people call Benedict "the Nazi Pope" and nobody even mentions the allegations against Francis these days.

PF came from a conservative family that indeed indeed had a reputation of cozying up to the political powers, and he followed suit at first. It was when he began to do his work within the barrios of Buenos Aries and some other locations whereas he "got religion" and began to try to do more to help the poor. Like many Jesuits in third-world countries, this made him increasingly less popular with the political leaders, and even today the more conservative bishops are really not terribly fond of him.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

PF came from a conservative family that indeed indeed had a reputation of cozying up to the political powers, and he followed suit at first. It was when he began to do his work within the barrios of Buenos Aries and some other locations whereas he "got religion" and began to try to do more to help the poor. Like many Jesuits in third-world countries, this made him increasingly less popular with the political leaders, and even today the more conservative bishops are really not terribly fond of him.

The allegations are that he didn't just "cozy up" to the government. The allegation is that while he was head of the Jesuits in Argentina, he identified communist priests to the dictatorship so that they could be arrested and imprisoned or killed.

Edit: I should say that I realize that these are only allegations. I don't point them out to say that Francis is guilty; I point them out to show the difference in benefit of the doubt given to the two men. There hasn't even been the suggestion that Benedict might have done things as serious as what Francis is accused of, but Benedict is made out to be the "evil" one of the two of them.

 

[DavidFirth]

So you didn't have a particular cover-up in mind?


They were both vetted by largely the same group of people to ensure they have a stance on doctrinal matters this group of people could endorse.


It's more that I don't like hypocrisy. I think Benedict got a lot of flak over his appearance: he looked kinda similar to Emperor Palpatine, so people made him out to be evil.

Then Francis comes along and he doesn't look particularly like a movie villain, so people think he's wonderful.

The message didn't change; it's just being delivered by a fun Italian uncle instead of a stern German professor.

There's a huge double standard here. Benedict had the misfortune of growing up in Germany under the Nazis. He was forced to join the Hitler Youth, but avoided it as best he could at some personal risk. OTOH, Pope Francis is accused of not just living under a dictatorship but actively collaborating with one... yet people call Benedict "the Nazi Pope" and nobody even mentions the allegations against Francis these days.

This different treatment of the two men is deeply hypocritical, IMO.

You do realize Francis is from Argentina and not from Italy, right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You do realize Francis is from Argentina and not from Italy, right?

... of Italian descent. I was speaking to the stereotype applied to each of them.

 

[DavidFirth]

... of Italian descent. I was speaking to the stereotype applied to each of them.

OK. I don't see it that way, though.

 

[metis]

but Benedict is made out to be the "evil" one of the two of them.

Personally, I never considered PB to be evil, just that I didn't care for his ultra-conservative views that stymied reforms the church so desperately needed, imo. I think his age was a limiting factor, but I did admire his stepping down as pope.