What do you think of Islam personally?

[Cosmos]

I'd like to state in light of the recent dialogue that Sufism IS Islam and the facts that most Westerners are unaware of is the fact that the Sufis were the original ones to spread Islam peaceably all over the known world from North Africa, through Persia, into the Indus Valley civilization. This WAS NOT accomplished by the sword! The Arab Muslim armies came a tad later, and yes, the first three of the "Four Righteously Guided Caliphs" were, in fact, dynastic tyrants who abused Qur'anic injunctions to take down oppressive, tyrannical kingdoms and governments. These rulers, as Zenzero accurately described, who usurped the Caliphate became oppressors themselves, and instead of bringing justice to the downtrodden, they severely misused the principle of jihad (which DOES NOT mean "holy war"--but (inner) "struggle") to establish Islamic governance! Indians today, as a perfect example, have historical rifts with their fellow Indian Muslims because of these invading armies. To be fair, not every single one of these conquests were unjust, particularly the first century of conquest, but a great many, yes, and particularly in the Middle Ages when the Muslim army violently invaded India.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Just adding to why had stated that *sufism not purely islamic*:

Spread of Sufi Islam
Main article: Sufism in India
Sufis (Islamic mystics) played an important role in the spread of Islam in India. They were very successful in spreading Islam, as many aspects of Sufi belief systems and practices had their parallels in Indian philosophical literature, in particular nonviolence and monism. The Sufis' unorthodox approach towards Islam made it easier for Hindus to practice. ref: Islam in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

besides friend Cosmos too has brought out his views on the subject; other points too can be brought out in defense of the statement.

Love & rgds

 

[nameless]

how dare you tell me my path is not Islamic? who do you think you are, exactly?

.

it is muslim scholars who tells you are not muslim since you are a sufi.

Is sufism part of Islam?

 

[.lava]

it is muslim scholars who tells you are not muslim since you are a sufi.

Is sufism part of Islam?

i see you're back, welcome back nameless i am not talking to any of them. besides all the sections would see the other as non-this or that. that's nature of people. thank God we welcome people who loves God regardless which label they carry

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[nameless]

i see you're back, welcome back nameless

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thank you .lava, actually i did not go anywhere to make a return

i am not talking to any of them. besides all the sections would see the other as non-this or that.

well, atleast you should talk to yourselves about sufism is islamic or not, have you ever attempted to do that?


have you read that article? any sort of disagreement with the author? islam path is unique, anything which contradicts islamic path cannot be considered to be islamic. Sufism in many ways contradicts islam, just make a research.

 

[.lava]

thank you .lave, actually i did not go anywhere to make a return



well, atleast you should talk to yourselves about sufism is islamic or not, have you ever attempted to do that?


have you read that article? any sort of disagreement to the author?islam path is unique, anything which contradicts islamic path cannot be considered to be islamic. Sufism in many ways contradicts islam, just make a research.

Sufism, as we name it Tasavvuf is Islam. everything could be proven by verses of Qur'an.

talk to ourselves? do you expect me to respond under threads to people who's not even here? well, that would be weird

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[Twig pentagram]

I think Islam has it's positives and negatives. I was born christian and later in life I converted to islam, but after several years It became to mystical for me. Now I just try to follow my intellect.

 

[zenzero]

Friend nameless,

it is muslim scholars who tells you are not muslim since you are a sufi.

Is sufism part of Islam?

Though whatever had stated were based on personal understanding however with your research on the subject you have split the doors wide open and confirmed the understanding further.

Love & rgds

 

[nameless]

Sufism, as we name it Tasavvuf is Islam. everything could be proven by verses of Qur'an.

talk to ourselves? do you expect me to respond under threads to people who's not even here? well, that would be weird

.

i did not mean you should have discussion with the author, but there are few people here who believes sufism completely is not part of islam. By rejecting their statements you are taking responsibility to explain why it is not so.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Neo Gnosis,

Welcome to RF!
Best Wishes.

Love & rgds

 

[Twig pentagram]

Friend Neo Gnosis,

Welcome to RF!
Best Wishes.

Love & rgds

Thanks Zenzero. May your pain be champagne.

 

[.lava]

i did not mean you should have discussion with the author, but there are few people here who believes sufism completely is not part of islam. By rejecting their statements you are taking responsibility to explain why it is not so.

and in case i see them make such a claim i would share, nameless. other than that i am going out for a hunt to find people who oppose me

.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I do love the Muslim sense of humor. I take it you are unfamiliar with the Muslim sacking of the Indian subcontinent, right.

Are you talking about the Mughal Empire? My impression was that it didn't exactly "sack the Indian subcontinent". I'd say that the British (and nominally Christian) Raj was worse for India than the Mughals were.

it is muslim scholars who tells you are not muslim since you are a sufi.

Is sufism part of Islam?

I'm sure you could find Muslims of any particular denomination who would be willing to say that Muslims of other denominations are "not Muslim".

But which Muslim scholars are you referring to? I assume that it wasn't any of the 500 scholars who endorsed the Amman Message, which was specifically concerned with declaring what is and is not Islamic, and which explicitly declared Sufism to be a valid form of Islam.

 

[Cosmos]

I want to emphasize--not for the sake of argument--that my stated opinion is, in fact, a FACT. Sufis ARE Muslims and in mainstream Sunni/Shia communities it is little spoken on the scholars that DO acknowledge the Sufi orders and learn from them respectfully. Thank you, Zenzero, for that short but informative article mentioned, as it is how Islam ingrained itself so successfully in foreign cultures. Those who deny Islamic Mysticism are the unitiated in anything esoteric, for one, and those who buy into the sales-pitch of muftis (Islamic jurist), those who legislate (and monopolize) morality and in the Sunni world have taken absolute precedance over exemplifying the proper codification of Hadith law for society, are the ones insisting in this separation in the Muslim world.

 

[Breathe]

I'd say that the British (and nominally Christian) Raj was worse for India than the Mughals were.

I understand your point, but I would disagree (and I do believe that they did pretty much sack the Subcontinent). Whilst the British Raj did evil things that I can't condone, the Mughals' actions were just plain atrocious.

Bhai Mati Das, Sati Das, Dayala, Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Tegh Bahadur, Sahibzade Zorawar Singh, Sahibzade Fateh Singh, Mata Gujri, Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Mani Singh Chauhan, Bhai Subheg Singh and his son Bhai Shahbaz Singh were all Sikh martyrs. There are more.

Mati Das was sawn in half, Sati Das burnt alive, Dayala boiled alive, Taru Singh scalped, Mani Singh cut joint by joint. Subheg and Shahbaz were publicly crushed under a wheel. Sahibzade Fateh and Zorawar Singh were bricked alive (at ages 7 and 9 respectively).

All were martyred for refusing to convert to Islam. There are also wars and those who were killed for political aims, too. I can't find any at the moment on those who were killed because they refused to convert to Christianity.

There are definitely true stories of atrocities and wars performed against those who refused to submit to British rule, but not for their faith that I can find, but politics is never pretty. The British would kill for political aims, Mughals would kill for political and religious ones. If I had the choice of who ruled me, I would have picked the lesser of two evils and go with the British Raj, personally.

 

[nameless]

Are you talking about the Mughal Empire? My impression was that it didn't exactly "sack the Indian subcontinent". I'd say that the British (and nominally Christian) Raj was worse for India than the Mughals were.

such a non-sense !!!!

Islamic Invasion of India is the most shameful in the entire human history. They won the wars by cheating opponents in worst possible manner. They made islam a curse to humanity by forcing non-muslims to convert.

British raj aimed only money and property, they were ready for peace if handed over to them what they demanded.

 

[DeitySlayer]

Are you talking about the Mughal Empire? My impression was that it didn't exactly "sack the Indian subcontinent". I'd say that the British (and nominally Christian) Raj was worse for India than the Mughals were.

The Raj never killed anyone for failing to convert. The Raj never forced conversions. The Raj never enacted massacres of Hindus and Sikhs. The Raj never won battles by breaking oaths sworn on the Bible.

 

[.lava]

i wish i knew what happened in India and when

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[Badran]

Islamic Invasion of India is the most shameful in the entire human history.

Isn't that kind of a big claim?

 

[Onkara]

i wish i knew what happened in India and when

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Yes, me too, can anyone recommend any good books on that period of Indian History?