What do YOU think?

[Vinayaka]

Then why make conjectures regarding those who like scripture if you don't plan on applying those conjectures?

Who said there's something wrong with scripture. I'm not arguing against scripture. I'm arguing on the over-reliance on it, or maybe more aptly the total reliance on it.

There are people who can't use computers because they don't see any scriptural support for them.

 

[Caladan]

I do infinitely prefer it if people give me their own creative and non repetitive opinion and arguments instead of bombarding me with verses from their scripture of choice.

Of course there is nothing wrong with discussing specific chapters of verses from World scriptures, and that is something I love engaging in myself. But yeah, I don't dig it when people believe that their scriptural verses carry an authority of truth and final word which is above science or personal discretion.

We can all read scriptures for ourselves, there is no point shoving it down our throat, especially if we don't believe in the first place.

 

[crossfire]

Inspired from another thread ...
How come people are so hesitant to think for themselves? I so often see scripture being quoted instead of people saying what they think. Is it because they don't know what they think, or is it because the scripture tells them not to think?

Here's some examples.

"Well, let's see. The Bible says _______________."
"Let me refer to the Koran."
"Our scriptures say _______."
"Let me quote Bahai scriptures on this."

I understand how you can use scripture as support for you line of thinking, but to just automatically go to that? Is there no original thought left.

So what's the reason? Scripture is the crutch? Too lazy? Too unintelligent?

There are a ton of important things that scripture doesn't help you with.

Who said there's something wrong with scripture. I'm not arguing against scripture. I'm arguing on the over-reliance on it, or maybe more aptly the total reliance on it.

There are people who can't use computers because they don't see any scriptural support for them.

I quote scripture simply because I like scripture. (This is a religious forum, so it's the appropriate setting for me to do what I love to do.)

So what's the reason? Scripture is the crutch? Too lazy? Too unintelligent?

It doesn't mean that I use scripture as a crutch, nor that I'm lazy (been accused of that enough already--see my title) nor does it mean that I'm unintelligent. Anyone making that assumption might want to look into their own mind to find the reason for their hang-up regarding this, imo.

 

[Vinayaka]

I quote scripture simply because I like scripture. (This is a religious forum, so it's the appropriate setting for me to do what I love to do.)

It doesn't mean that I use scripture as a crutch, nor that I'm lazy (been accused of that enough already--see my title) nor does it mean that I'm unintelligent. Anyone making that assumption might want to look into their own mind to find the reason for their hang-up regarding this, imo.

Not assuming anything. Just observing. I don't see how making an observation is likened to a hangup. That's like saying "You're tall." and the person responding with, "You have something against tall people?"

And liking scripture is a great reason why people would quote it. I do to ... at times.

 

[crossfire]

Not assuming anything. Just observing. I don't see how making an observation is likened to a hangup. That's like saying "You're tall." and the person responding with, "You have something against tall people?"

And liking scripture is a great reason why people would quote it. I do to ... at times.

Ahh, but you are. let's go back to your opening post:

I understand how you can use scripture as support for you line of thinking, but to just automatically go to that? Is there no original thought left.

So what's the reason? Scripture is the crutch? Too lazy? Too unintelligent?

This is the debate section, no?
**looks around to make sure**
Yep, it is, and I'm calling you out on this.

 

[Vinayaka]

Ahh, but you are. let's go back to your opening post:

This is the debate section, no?
**looks around to make sure**
Yep, it is, and I'm calling you out on this.

I don't see it, but obviously you do. I gave 3 possible answers to what's the reason. I had more, but just threw those three out there to start a discussion. I'm glad you've contributed more possible reasons.

All I'm doing is wondering why people think and act the way they do ... at times. I'm not saying all the time, but sometimes. A good example is this 'debate' itself. (which BTW is the only subforum I could find that seemed half suitable for the topic ... else I may have well placed it somewhere else.) So far in this discussion nobody has quoted scripture to defend scripture.

But I have the feeling this is becoming some sort of competition now, not a discussion at all, and I'm sorry it's going that way.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram vinayaka ji :namaste

Inspired from another thread ...
How come people are so hesitant to think for themselves? I so often see scripture being quoted instead of people saying what they think. Is it because they don't know what they think, or is it because the scripture tells them not to think?

Here's some examples.

"Well, let's see. The Bible says _______________."
"Let me refer to the Koran."
"Our scriptures say _______."
"Let me quote Bahai scriptures on this."

I understand how you can use scripture as support for you line of thinking, but to just automatically go to that? Is there no original thought left.

I ' Think ' ... meaning I have observed that people are doing many things here , ...
some people are simply humble in front of their teachings and would not like others to think that they are placing their oppinions , realisations or understanding above the teachings of their elders .

so we have reason ..............1, Humility

then we have reason ...........2 , Respect

many folk respect the words of their scripture as the word of god and simply want to repeat what they have heard ,

which leads us on to reason ...3 , Love

some people's respect for their scripture is so great that they truely love it as one might love god , and it springs to mind more readily than thoughts of opinion for when one develops such deep respect it is because one has understood the truth contained within .


These to me are the genuine reasons for quoting scripture .



then there are the ingenious reasons which unfortunately are numerous ....

........................... Power , using scripture to control ,

........................... Pride , having a point to prove ,

........................... Ego , posing as a learned and authoritive person ,

.......................... Anger , using scripture as a stick to beat ones oponents with ,

.......................... the list I am sure goes on ....but personaly I prefer




Humility , Respectand Love

So what's the reason? Scripture is the crutch? Too lazy? Too unintelligent?

some reasons fall in between the above , .... prehaps a lack in confidence to voice ones own opinion ? ..... prehaps it is trust , we all need some thing with which to be supported

There are a ton of important things that scripture doesn't help you with.

aggred , without thought one does not know how to aply what one should learn from scripture .

 

[crossfire]

I don't see it, but obviously you do. I gave 3 possible answers to what's the reason. I had more, but just threw those three out there to start a discussion. I'm glad you've contributed more possible reasons.

All I'm doing is wondering why people think and act the way they do ... at times. I'm not saying all the time, but sometimes. A good example is this 'debate' itself. (which BTW is the only subforum I could find that seemed half suitable for the topic ... else I may have well placed it somewhere else.) So far in this discussion nobody has quoted scripture to defend scripture.

But I have the feeling this is becoming some sort of competition now, not a discussion at all, and I'm sorry it's going that way.

Dude, you threw the first punch in the OP. People usually don't start "discussions" by throwing punches.

 

[Vinayaka]

So far, for me, the best reason I've heard is that 'scripture is just worded better than I can word it'. Now that makes sense.

Thank you, Ratikala, for your thoughts. Very helpful.

 

[allright]

Proverbs 28:26 RSV

"He who trusts in his own mind is a fool"

 

[Awoon]

Proverbs 28:26 RSV

"He who trusts in his own mind is a fool"

Right !!! Stand on the freeway and don't use your mind to move.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Proverbs 28:26 RSV

"He who trusts in his own mind is a fool"

This phrase is actually applicable to people who find it to be true.

 

[crossfire]

Proverbs 28:26 RSV

"He who trusts in his own mind is a fool"

Have Faith In Your Mind

 

[Jainarayan]

Let's try the whole verse:

"Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are kept safe." - Proverbs 28:26

And there are plenty of ways to become wise. One is to not take verses out of context. "Even the devil can quote scripture to his purpose." - William Shakespeare.

 

[ChristineES]

Inspired from another thread ...
How come people are so hesitant to think for themselves? I so often see scripture being quoted instead of people saying what they think. Is it because they don't know what they think, or is it because the scripture tells them not to think?

Here's some examples.

"Well, let's see. The Bible says _______________."
"Let me refer to the Koran."
"Our scriptures say _______."
"Let me quote Bahai scriptures on this."

I understand how you can use scripture as support for you line of thinking, but to just automatically go to that? Is there no original thought left.

So what's the reason? Scripture is the crutch? Too lazy? Too unintelligent?

There are a ton of important things that scripture doesn't help you with.

Ultimately, even people who use those books have to think for themselves. I believe that the Bible and other religious scriptures are meant to be guidebooks (I mean, not only guidebooks, some just tell stories about people who follow God or poetry or whatever).

Some people, however, are just unable to make their own decisions. I think at least some of them don't want to have to answer for it if it is the wrong decisions. So they use various religious writings (some of them) or some other philosophical type writings and if they make the wrong decision, they can put the blame on someone else.

 

[Vinayaka]

Some people, however, are just unable to make their own decisions. I think at least some of them don't want to have to answer for it if it is the wrong decisions. So they use various religious writings (some of them) or some other philosophical type writings and if they make the wrong decision, they can put the blame on someone else.

Thank you for the wise input. I agree that this may be another reason. "Hey it wasn't me. I was just following the book."

But along the same lines, as a teacher I used to get frustrated with some colleagues over-reliance on textbooks. One situation stands out: A kid transferred from Britain where students are taught a different subtraction algorithm than the one commonly used in North America. My colleague could not understand why his doing it 'wrong' always seemed to get the right answer. So the kid was taught the 'right' way to get the right answer, much to his confusion. Whereas I would have just left it, maybe even taught it as an alternative approach. But then I had a distinct advantage over my colleague, as I was a math major.

It was far worse with outdated textbooks, especially with geography. Africa and Europe were changing quickly there for a while. Rand-McNally must have made a killing.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'm kinda the reverse case. I almost never use scripture, even when it would support my point.
Sure, the fact that I'm an atheist is a major part of the reason, but the biggest part is that I'm too lazy to look up actual quotes.

 

[Penumbra]

Inspired from another thread ...
How come people are so hesitant to think for themselves? I so often see scripture being quoted instead of people saying what they think. Is it because they don't know what they think, or is it because the scripture tells them not to think?

Here's some examples.

"Well, let's see. The Bible says _______________."
"Let me refer to the Koran."
"Our scriptures say _______."
"Let me quote Bahai scriptures on this."

I understand how you can use scripture as support for you line of thinking, but to just automatically go to that? Is there no original thought left.

So what's the reason? Scripture is the crutch? Too lazy? Too unintelligent?

Ralph Waldo Emerson asked the same thing back in his day.

There are a ton of important things that scripture doesn't help you with.

If the scriptures didn't exist, I'm not sure what people would base these specific beliefs that they seem to have on.

People quote the Bible or Qu'ran and so forth as though they're quoting from a reliable source rather than ancient human writers, and some of them anonymous even. To me, they might as well be quoting Tolkien in terms of the value that it brings to the table. But if they had literally nothing to quote, I'd be interested in seeing how, say, a Christian would go about attempting to construct the position about Jesus and explain how this guy sacrificed himself for some reason and so forth and that this has to be believed, etc. Or seeing how a Muslim would articulate the five pillars of Islam without any source to use. These religions and their specific doctrines tend to rely on the presupposition that what these older folks said was true; without the writings there's little left. The specific metaphysical claims are based on the books and the series of generations that pass on the claims and maintain the books.

 

[allright]

Let's try the whole verse:

"Those who trust in themselves are fools, but those who walk in wisdom are kept safe." - Proverbs 28:26

And there are plenty of ways to become wise. One is to not take verses out of context. "Even the devil can quote scripture to his purpose." - William Shakespeare.

Its not talking about human wisdom. "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, a good understanding have they who keep his commandments"

The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.

*edit*

 

[Awoon]

Its not talking about human wisdom. "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, a good understanding have they who keep his commandments"

The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.

*edit*

This is fine and dandy to quote bible scriptures. But when will the God wisdom come to you to raise the dead, heal all disease? Don't you think that after 2 or 3000 yrs that the wisdom of the bible God would appear today?