what does 1 corinthians 7:29-31 mean?

[waitasec]

If you placed a little more emphasis on the teachings of Jesus, you might find that the ramblings of Paul take on a far less importance (none) than the words of the real teacher of the gospel. It is quite evident that this world in it's present form has not passed away in 2000 years and does not look like it is going to.

indeed.

 

[Strength & Honor]

Edit:

This post was made in the wrong forum, as I was trying to manage too many posts at once. Please disregard.

 

[waitasec]

You got me. I’ve never heard a preacher give a lesson from this text as a command for us to follow today. I don’t doubt that has happened, but I’ve never seen it personally. That would be a question for those who preach it. Either way, I agree with you that it would not be very wise to use this passage as a universally binding command.
I’m saying that it could have meant “don’t have sex with your wife,” but it doesn’t necessarily have to, and most likely didn't. After all, having a wife is more than just sex. As I have already said, I believe that Paul is speaking here to a broader idea, that being an emphasis on spiritual attachments, rather than earthly ones.

but you just said:

that it would not be very wise to use this passage as a universally binding command.

how can you say that without knowing the full context of this letter? isn't that being presumptuous?

One commentary I have puts it this way:
“Paul is, therefore, saying that in the time that remains those who have wives must live as if they did not have them, that is, they should learn to live in such a way that when the choice must be made between allegiance to Christ and family affection they will be able to choose Christ.

practically speaking, what does that mean? when would anyone come to that point?

Hence, Paul does not forbid marriage; instead, he counsels that Christians must not let their allegiance to their mattes interfere with their allegiance to Christ…”

while christ teaches to treat others the way they would like to be treated...?

'i will treat you the way i want to be treated but just know i will pick christ before i pick you' ...i don't get it.

 

[Willamena]

but you just said:

how can you say that without knowing the full context of this letter? isn't that being presumptuous?

Can I ask: Why do you interpret "Paul's ...emphasis on spiritual attachments rather than earthly ones" to be "a universally binding command"? Surely he is giving his informed interpretation of scripture, for the benefit of others struggling to interpret?

 

[waitasec]

Can I ask: Why do you interpret "Paul's ...emphasis on spiritual attachments rather than earthly ones" to be "a universally binding command"? Surely he is giving his informed interpretation of scripture, for the benefit of others struggling to interpret?

not so much a command but the basis for a sermon a teaching or a source for wisdom...knowing this entire letter is ambiguous for the simple fact we don't have the letter paul was responding to...the context is unclear.

 

[Strength & Honor]

how can you say that without knowing the full context of this letter? isn't that being presumptuous?

I don’t know that. No one can know it. But it’s the best conclusion that I can draw. Having just read Paul’s statement about marital sex being permissible, I would assume that “live as though you had no wife” meant something besides “don’t have sex with your wife.” I’d say it’s more presumptuous to automatically assume that Paul contradicted himself.

practically speaking, what does that mean? when would anyone come to that point?

It happens all the time. I’ve seen it happen more than once. In the U.S., it usually happens when someone is taught the Gospel and becomes a Christian against their family's wishes. So people come to the point where they have to decide between doing what they know is right, and keeping the peace. There are also plenty of other countries where Christians are thrown in jail or killed just for their belief in Christ.

while christ teaches to treat others the way they would like to be treated...?

'i will treat you the way i want to be treated but just know i will pick christ before i pick you' ...i don't get it.

Of course you don’t get it. You are not a Christian, so you don’t know what it’s like. It sounds strange to a non-believer, but to a Christian faith is number one above all things- family friends country, everything. So, even if my family desperately wants me to give up that faith, then I have to be prepared to make a hard decision: make my wife happy, or make God happy? And for the dedicated Christian, the choice will always be God first. Jesus predicted this when he said in Matthew 10:34,

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.
37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

So, we can see that Christ knew this kind of thing was bound to happen, and Paul seems to confirm it here in a real setting in 1 Corinthians 7.

 

[Pegg]

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

are the followers of christ to:
abstain from sex with their spouse, and if they are not married, they are to stop looking for a spouse?
are they to not mourn the loss of a loved one, seek entertainment or invest for future prospects, because these things are of the world and the time is short...

imagine if they actually did these things for the last 2 thousand yrs....

so if it doesn't mean these things then what does it mean?

Paul says exactly what he means in the verse

Vs 31 "... those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away."


Christians were still in the world and doing all those normal activities, but Paul is encouraging them not to 'engrossed' in those things so that they dont forget the more important things to come.

 

[sojourner]

If you placed a little more emphasis on the teachings of Jesus, you might find that the ramblings of Paul take on a far less importance (none) than the words of the real teacher of the gospel. It is quite evident that this world in it's present form has not passed away in 2000 years and does not look like it is going to.

I would say that Jesus is the expositor of the Gospel. Later people (like Paul) taught it.

 

[Strength & Honor]

If you placed a little more emphasis on the teachings of Jesus, you might find that the ramblings of Paul take on a far less importance (none) than the words of the real teacher of the gospel. It is quite evident that this world in it's present form has not passed away in 2000 years and does not look like it is going to.

I've heard many Christians say something to this effect. What's funny is that they all worship on Sundays, give money every week, and have worship/praise bands in their church; none of which is taught by Christ. They even call themselves "Christians," a name that Christ Himself never used. What hypocrisy.

 

[waitasec]

I don’t know that. No one can know it. But it’s the best conclusion that I can draw.

this?

I believe that Paul is speaking here to a broader idea, that being an emphasis on spiritual attachments, rather than earthly ones.

what does that mean...?

certainly some earthly attachments are shallow ideas...but sharing your life with someone isn't a shallow attachment and neither is being someone's parent a shallow attachment...it's an important part of life...at least for me it is...why isn't it for you? life is about connecting with someone who understands you and is your advocate and who is honest with you while you are all those things to them...why would you say this is an earthly attachment we shouldn't concern ourselves with? does paul not know anything about our psychology? and why would paul be considered an authority over what jesus said...read luke 6 for instance...a total contradiction to pauls teachings a complete 180 degrees in the other direction.
so really what does this mean?

Having just read Paul’s statement about marital sex being permissible, I would assume that “live as though you had no wife” meant something besides “don’t have sex with your wife.” I’d say it’s more presumptuous to automatically assume that Paul contradicted himself.

and what do you presume paul means when he says;
"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband." when the preceding this statement is:
"1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband"
i presume he is talking about sex...

married sex and for those who are not he says it is better to marry than to burn with passion
9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

so lets look at the context - "From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;" this subject starts out with the statement :“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” apparently this was something married couples were having problems with...from how i read it paul was quoting himself. this is something he told the people in corinthians that it is GOOD to not have sex with your spouse...because the time is short...and this present age is passing away...
the subject is sex...yes marriage is more than sex but apparently paul doesn't seem to think so...live as if you were not....the subject is sex.
paul wanted his church to be obsessively unconcerned with their current state of affairs to be something to not worry about because the time is short...

what does 'from now on" mean to you?

It happens all the time. I’ve seen it happen more than once. In the U.S., it usually happens when someone is taught the Gospel and becomes a Christian against their family's wishes.

paul says...
12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
key word: willing...if the unbelieving spouse is not willing...divorce.
question is is the believer willing?

So people come to the point where they have to decide between doing what they know is right, and keeping the peace.

keeping the peace isn't always the right thing to do...
admitting there is a conflict and dealing with it is the most right thing to do.
otherwise how will anything get resolved? the pink elephant has to be dealt with sooner or later.

There are also plenty of other countries where Christians are thrown in jail or killed just for their belief in Christ.

so? what does this have to do with

Paul is, therefore, saying that in the time that remains those who have wives must live as if they did not have them, that is, they should learn to live in such a way that when the choice must be made between allegiance to Christ and family affection they will be able to choose Christ.

Of course you don’t get it. You are not a Christian, so you don’t know what it’s like. It sounds strange to a non-believer, but to a Christian faith is number one above all things- family friends country, everything. So, even if my family desperately wants me to give up that faith, then I have to be prepared to make a hard decision: make my wife happy, or make God happy? And for the dedicated Christian, the choice will always be God first. Jesus predicted this when he said in Matthew 10:34,

practically speaking what does this mean for you?
do you live in a country where you are persecuted for your beliefs?
please don't confuse having your ideas challenged as persecution...

Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.
37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.

all while you are to
Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Judging Others

37 “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38 Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
39 He also told them this parable: “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40 The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher.

41 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42 How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
luke 6:27-42

So, we can see that Christ knew this kind of thing was bound to happen, and Paul seems to confirm it here in a real setting in 1 Corinthians 7.

no, what we can see here are irreconcilable differences...

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

are the followers of christ to:
abstain from sex with their spouse, and if they are not married, they are to stop looking for a spouse?
are they to not mourn the loss of a loved one, seek entertainment or invest for future prospects, because these things are of the world and the time is short...

imagine if they actually did these things for the last 2 thousand yrs....

so if it doesn't mean these things then what does it mean?

Not at all. What these verses are saying is that because all are Christ (as the NT points out) there is no self, hence even if we act, it is not us who act. It's mystic.

 

[waitasec]

Not at all. What these verses are saying is that because all are Christ (as the NT points out) there is no self, hence even if we act, it is not us who act. It's mystic.

ok, so are you saying it was pauls intention for this to be understood as mystic?


how is it mystic to abstain from sex?
why then pray for someone to be healed from sickness?
since our bodies are not our own...why take any meds...headach pills or pills to lower blood pressure ...these things are mystic, right?

where does one draw the line?

 

[elmarna]

While early christians did follow this line of thinking it led to the sadness of many christians being killed of & no children being produced.
the intent of restaint was still taught, just not a severe way of thinking.
I am sure be fruitful & multiply was more capable of seeing them smile while "lusting "was not to be considered.

 

[Many Sages One Truth]

ok, so are you saying it was pauls intention for this to be understood as mystic?


how is it mystic to abstain from sex?
why then pray for someone to be healed from sickness?
since our bodies are not our own...why take any meds...headach pills or pills to lower blood pressure ...these things are mystic, right?

where does one draw the line?

You don't get it, that isn't saying not to have sex. It's saying that in having sex, you're not actually having sex. All notions of self-acting are based on wrong ways of thinking and seeing reality.

 

[waitasec]

You don't get it, that isn't saying not to have sex. It's saying that in having sex, you're not actually having sex. All notions of self-acting are based on wrong ways of thinking and seeing reality.

ah i see... life isn't meaningful unless you are detached from it...

 

[Strength & Honor]

certainly some earthly attachments are shallow ideas...but sharing your life with someone isn't a shallow attachment and neither is being someone's parent a shallow attachment...

I agree completely.

it's an important part of life...at least for me it is...why isn't it for you?

It is for me too. I’m not at all saying it’s easy to choose God over family. There is no way I would wish that decision on anyone. But the brutal truth is that it happens sometimes. I love my wife more than any person on earth, but I have no qualms with saying that I would choose God over her if I had to, and I am glad to know that she would do the same. But I hope we never have to.

life is about connecting with someone who understands you and is your advocate and who is honest with you while you are all those things to them...why would you say this is an earthly attachment we shouldn't concern ourselves with? does paul not know anything about our psychology?

It is not something that anyone should take lightly. Marriage is serious. But so is faith. Ultimately, however, faith is more important than anything. That is not to say that marriage, family, work, etc, are unimportant, but rather that their importance is subordinate to faith.

and what do you presume paul means when he says;
"The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband." when the preceding this statement is:
"1 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband"
i presume he is talking about sex...

He is. But verse 9 is last place he mentions it until later in verse 36. In verse 10 Paul begins to speak about marriage and divorce, specifically with regard to Christians who are married to non-Christians. In verse 17, he transitions into speaking about remaining in the state in which each of us was converted to Christianity. That is the concept that Paul uses to bridge into verses 25 and 26. He takes the concept of verse 24, and is extending that into the context of marriage. Why? Because of the “present distress.” You see, the context changes after verse 9, then again in verse 17, and yet again in verse 25. So, the context of verse 29 is best seen in verses 25 – 35, rather than reaching all the way back to verse 1.

so lets look at the context - "From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;" this subject starts out with the statement :“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” apparently this was something married couples were having problems with...from how i read it paul was quoting himself. this is something he told the people in corinthians that it is GOOD to not have sex with your spouse...because the time is short...and this present age is passing away...
the subject is sex...yes marriage is more than sex but apparently paul doesn't seem to think so...live as if you were not....the subject is sex.

I agree that we need to view this verse in context, but you are skipping over a large portion of the chapter in which Paul changes the subject, or, at the very least changes emphasis; once in verse 10, then again in verse 17, and again in verse 25 as I mentioned above. It seems to me that the subject in verse 29 specifically is service to God with respect to one’s marital status. You can see this especially when verses 29-35 are read together. Paul is not emphasizing sex here in these verses; he is emphasizing unhindered service to God as exemplified in verse 35. His point about sex seems secondary if anything.

Let me ask you this: If Paul is talking about sex in verse 29, how do verses 30 and 31 fit into that? What do these verses mean in regard to sex?

keeping the peace isn't always the right thing to do...
admitting there is a conflict and dealing with it is the most right thing to do.
otherwise how will anything get resolved? the pink elephant has to be dealt with sooner or later.

Again, we agree. In an ideal world the conflict should be dealt with appropriately. And that’s why the selection of a spouse should be such an important process. Unfortunately, however, such a resolution is not always possible in the real world.

so? what does this have to do with

Well, perhaps nothing directly. However, both scenarios speak to the idea of serving Christ before all else.

practically speaking what does this mean for you?
do you live in a country where you are persecuted for your beliefs?

Thankfully, I do not live in such a place. To me it means simply this: be prepared. Hopefully this kind of situation will never arise, but if it does, I need to be prepared to choose God first.

please don't confuse having your ideas challenged as persecution...

Of course not. I have enjoyed this discussion tremendously.

 

[waitasec]

I agree completely.

It is for me too. I’m not at all saying it’s easy to choose God over family. There is no way I would wish that decision on anyone. But the brutal truth is that it happens sometimes. I love my wife more than any person on earth, but I have no qualms with saying that I would choose God over her if I had to, and I am glad to know that she would do the same. But I hope we never have to.

this logic does not compute for me...
it begs the question, is god that needy of your commitment...? besides love isn't about commitment, love is about freedom. if we were to compare a parents love for their child to god's love for his creation...we see 1 major difference...a parents love is not depended on it being reciprocated god's love is.

It is not something that anyone should take lightly. Marriage is serious. But so is faith. Ultimately, however, faith is more important than anything. That is not to say that marriage, family, work, etc, are unimportant, but rather that their importance is subordinate to faith.

to me this sounds like faith is more like inner truth, and the value one holds to their integrity...

He is. But verse 9 is last place he mentions it until later in verse 36. In verse 10 Paul begins to speak about marriage and divorce, specifically with regard to Christians who are married to non-Christians. In verse 17, he transitions into speaking about remaining in the state in which each of us was converted to Christianity. That is the concept that Paul uses to bridge into verses 25 and 26. He takes the concept of verse 24, and is extending that into the context of marriage. Why? Because of the “present distress.” You see, the context changes after verse 9, then again in verse 17, and yet again in verse 25. So, the context of verse 29 is best seen in verses 25 – 35, rather than reaching all the way back to verse 1.

i think the "present distress" was paul telling them
“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” in a previous discourse...and it brought up all sorts of questions because they were confused about married couples...of course i am speculating, but this is how it makes sense to me

I agree that we need to view this verse in context, but you are skipping over a large portion of the chapter in which Paul changes the subject, or, at the very least changes emphasis; once in verse 10, then again in verse 17, and again in verse 25 as I mentioned above. It seems to me that the subject in verse 29 specifically is service to God with respect to one’s marital status. You can see this especially when verses 29-35 are read together. Paul is not emphasizing sex here in these verses; he is emphasizing unhindered service to God as exemplified in verse 35. His point about sex seems secondary if anything.

but paul ties it up in the end..
consider:

36 If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.[c]

and here is something else i noticed:
vs 25 Now about virgins:
vs29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not;
he's not talking about virgins now is he...he ties everything up with
what i mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. from now on...

Let me ask you this: If Paul is talking about sex in verse 29, how do verses 30 and 31 fit into that? What do these verses mean in regard to sex?

these things have nothing to do with sex but all these things do have something in common... 32 I would like you to be free from concern.
why? vs 31.....For this world in its present form is passing away.
their "present" is our past.

Well, perhaps nothing directly. However, both scenarios speak to the idea of serving Christ before all else.

i'm actually quite intrigued about the level of pauls influence...his words are right up there competing with jesus' words. historically speaking, the gospels were not written as of yet...so paul must have gotten his theology from the oral tradition...and interestingly enough paul never goes into detail about christ's ministry on earth except for the carrot as it were...jesus divintiy, sacrifice and resurrection.
it's not as if jesus' words were silent ...he already laid out the plans beautifully in luke 6...and in matthew 25:31-46 and these stories had to have been out circulating, why then does paul have any authority on these matters...? is because he claims jesus gave him that authority (even over jesus' own brother) ....wonder if there were others riding on jesus' coattails around the same time and paul was the better politician. i also find it sort of interesting that in islam mohammed did the same thing by not passing the baton to one of his children...but i digress)
jesus did say a few things that left his disciples hoping...

mark 8:34-9:1 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 35 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me and for the gospel will save it. 36 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? 37 Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”
9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

clearly they all died.

Thankfully, I do not live in such a place. To me it means simply this: be prepared. Hopefully this kind of situation will never arise, but if it does, I need to be prepared to choose God first.

let me ask you this...
why do you mourn, invest and spend time entertaining yourself?
this ideal of "be prepared" i take as though he's coming soon, so don't get caught with your pants down...so to speak
from what i understand, the only thing that is going to happen, happens to us all...we die...
some live to die (at least they think they do) others live to live

Of course not. I have enjoyed this discussion tremendously.

good. this has been really fun for me too. :yes:

 

[earlwooters]

I've heard many Christians say something to this effect. What's funny is that they all worship on Sundays, give money every week, and have worship/praise bands in their church; none of which is taught by Christ. They even call themselves "Christians," a name that Christ Himself never used. What hypocrisy.

I'm going to take alot of crap for this, but it is what it is. I do not worship on Sundays. I give no money to those who expect it as a reward for telling me what I should do or not do. I give no money to those who's only job is to prey upon others who are so weak, that they will believe anything anyone tells them. People whose lives are so bad that they look for another life in another place are entitled to their belief. The world is now, life is now, the past is gone and the future may never arrive.The term "praise bands". You got a problem that has nothing to do with belief. Whatever band you got kicked out of is probably better off.

 

[Webbster101]

If you read on through the passage, you will find Paul telling the people of Corinth "to be without concerns". When you find issues, it may help to read more context.

 

[javajo]

According to my understanding, (and this is only my personal beliefs), it's sort of in the same vein as Ephesians 5:15-17 and Collosians 4:5...

"So be very careful how you live. Do not live like people who aren't wise. Live like people who are wise. Make the most of every opportunity. The days are evil. So don't be foolish. Instead, understand what the Lord wants. Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders. Make the most of every opportunity. Let the words you speak always be full of grace. Season them with salt. Then you will know how to answer everyone."

It just means we should "seek first the kingdom of God.." In other words, its telling Christians to get their priorities straight and get about the business of gently and graciously spreading the Gospel, the good news of how God loves us and paid for our sins on the cross and offers eternal life freely to all who trust him.