What does demon possession mean to you?

[Dan From Smithville]

So, then where did this master engineer make room for all the animals?

I have never seen wave tank experiments with the ark. The only work I have seen is that of some students that indicate that a boat of that shape and built of wood, could float with a cargo. Not that it was seaworthy or could actually hold all of the species of the earth, and the food and water they would need. Some of those animals require very specific diets too. Of course, there are always magic work-arounds that are never mentioned in the Bible.

 

[Thief]

Hey!

maybe it was a vessel of genetic material....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Thief]

after all

Eve was clone

 

[Deeje]

I never said that Bible does not have truth, but kind of you to twist it that way.

Since most of it is fiction according to you, what else am I supposed to think? The flood is not true...creation is not true...was Jesus real or was he fictional too? I just don't understand "Christians" who claim that the Bible is myth and legend and then say this bit is OK because it fits with my worldview, but that bit doesn't so I will call it 'allegory'. Who is it that determines which is which?

I just do not deify it like you do, nor do I sit on a pedestal looking down on others claiming my interpretation is the only and bestest interpretation.

If Jesus said that God's word is truth...are you going to argue with him....? I am not. Having come out of Christendom where I understood nothing, it was a relief to finally understand the Bible as one book....with one story from beginning to end....given to humankind to work it all out....but never accomplished without God's spirit. (John 6:65)

I wonder about those who never seem to be able to come to any real conclusions. No Christians should ever say "I dunno"......it means God has not given them the understanding that he promised. Don't mistake confidence for arrogance. It seems that so many today are confident of their ignorance, as if "I dunno" makes them members of a large club that condones and glorifies that ignorance. Ignorance of God's word is not OK for any Christian, IMO.

I hope that you are saved. I hope that all your sins that you toss out on this forum like candy at a parade are forgiven.

It is not the Bible I laugh at, by the way. It is you and people like you. Your actions inspire laughter.

Well.....you just said that you hoped that I was saved and that all my sins are forgiven......then you undid it all with that last statement....If you read my response, it isn't me laughing at you....but God might because it is HIS word that you question. Its all in the way you twist the words I guess.

I understand your where your hostility comes from....but I am not sure that you do.
And again, be careful how hard you laugh....

 

[Deeje]

So, then where did this master engineer make room for all the animals?

The Bible says that God brought the specimens to Noah, so they were God's choice not Noah's. It also said that each "kind" was brought into the ark, not every "species" of every kind. And it was only land dwellers.

Noah spent the best part of 5 decades building this vessel and in his instructions were the all the necessary foods required to feed all of the animals and the humans. Most were probably vegetarians because some of the largest and strongest land animals are herbivores. Humans did not eat meat before the flood so perhaps animals didn't either.

In prophesies pertaining to the future it is said that "the lion will eat straw just like the bull"....so perhaps we will all return to being vegetarians. The only meat eaters would have been carrion creatures designed to clean up any creature that died. They don't kill their victims, but make sure that nothing is left to pollute the earth.

The ark was enormous—some 437 feet (133 m) long, 73 feet (22 m) wide, and 44 feet (13 m) tall. It was far larger than the largest seagoing wooden ships built even in later centuries. It was three stories high with compartments that would have housed the animals, and with plenty of room for storage and living space. It is not out of the realms of possibility that God could accomplish this. He created them all in the first place.....and besides, it serves God well as a pictorial example of what was to come in the future. (Matthew 24:37-39) God did not save Noah....but told him how to save himself.....he does that with us too.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Hey!

maybe it was a vessel of genetic material....!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be true even if it were empty. It was made of wood.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

after all

Eve was clone

That would have been awkward.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Since most of it is fiction according to you, what else am I supposed to think? The flood is not true...creation is not true...was Jesus real or was he fictional too? I just don't understand "Christians" who claim that the Bible is myth and legend and then say this bit is OK because it fits with my worldview, but that bit doesn't so I will call it 'allegory'. Who is it that determines which is which?



If Jesus said that God's word is truth...are you going to argue with him....? I am not. Having come out of Christendom where I understood nothing, it was a relief to finally understand the Bible as one book....with one story from beginning to end....given to humankind to work it all out....but never accomplished without God's spirit. (John 6:65)

I wonder about those who never seem to be able to come to any real conclusions. No Christians should ever say "I dunno"......it means God has not given them the understanding that he promised. Don't mistake confidence for arrogance. It seems that so many today are confident of their ignorance, as if "I dunno" makes them members of a large club that condones and glorifies that ignorance. Ignorance of God's word is not OK for any Christian, IMO.





Well.....you just said that you hoped that I was saved and that all my sins are forgiven......then you undid it all with that last statement....If you read my response, it isn't me laughing at you....but God might because it is HIS word that you question. Its all in the way you twist the words I guess.

I understand your where your hostility comes from....but I am not sure that you do.
And again, be careful how hard you laugh....

I didn't read any of this and I am not planning to.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Bible says that God brought the specimens to Noah, so they were God's choice not Noah's. It also said that each "kind" was brought into the ark, not every "species" of every kind. And it was only land dwellers.

That's still too many.

Most were probably vegetarians because some of the largest and strongest land animals are herbivores. Humans did not eat meat before the flood so perhaps animals didn't either.

Pure speculation. And no matter what, you can't feed a cat of any sort or kind a vegetarian diet. Bears need both. Canines too need meat. The same for the fox and civet. And snakes, they eat meat as well.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's still too many.

Pure speculation. And no matter what, you can't feed a cat of any sort or kind a vegetarian diet. Bears need both. Canines too need meat. The same for the fox and civet. And snakes, they eat meat as well.

The hog-nosed snake requires a diet of toads. So, instead of two toads, they would need hundreds. Best to make sure they save a few too. Lest we be toadless.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That's still too many.

Pure speculation. And no matter what, you can't feed a cat of any sort or kind a vegetarian diet. Bears need both. Canines too need meat. The same for the fox and civet. And snakes, they eat meat as well.

What are two honey bees? Is it two bees, male and female or is it two hives? Female bees are produced without fertilization of the queen's eggs, while males are from fertilized eggs. What about termites or any other social species with bothersome differences in reproductive strategies.

I wonder if any of these people that demand a literal ark have ever looked at the resources required to run a zoo. And, even large zoos do not have two of every species on earth.

What about that issues. We have described between 1 and 2 million species on earth and the estimates run from 3 million to 100 million, though I admit the latter are very high and may not be realistic any longer. Still, getting them all on the ark just as described is unreal. Remember. No cheating. It has to be as described. It is a literalist thing. No speculating on wild fantasies of babies or kinds--whatever that is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What are two honey bees? Is it two bees, male and female or is it two hives? Female bees are produced without fertilization of the queen's eggs, while males are from fertilized eggs. What about termites or any other social species with bothersome differences in reproductive strategies.

I hadn't thought of such things before, but, yeah, that definitely does complicate things.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hadn't thought of such things before, but, yeah, that definitely does complicate things.

It sure does. This does not even take into account disease organisms, parasites and parasitoids. Animals with obligate relationships to their hosts. Then there are hyperparasitoids that are parasitic on other parasitoids.

There are many species with obligate host relationships or breeding needs. Many of the smaller species would have had to have been brought in in larger groups, just to sustain two. Can you imagine the first time Ham gets bit by a mosquito that wasn't quick enough to fly off before his hand slapped.

If it only required two of each species of fly, in short order that ark would have been full to the brim with flies. Another complication and that is just flies. There are species of other animals that reproduce at a similar rate and there is no written statement that reproduction would stop for that year.

Can you imagine Shem complaining that they are eating rabbit again. Shem: "I thought we only brough two aboard." Nameless Wife of Noah, Shem's Mom: Rabbits.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can you imagine the first time Ham gets bit by a mosquito that wasn't quick enough to fly off before his hand slapped.

So that's why he was cursed!

Can you imagine Shem complaining that they are eating rabbit again. Shem: "I thought we only brough two aboard." Nameless Wife of Noah, Shem's Mom: Rabbits.

They couldn't have ate rabbits. Or maybe they could have. The mandate for seven of the clean animals was there. But Moses hadn't yet received that bit about what animals are clean and unclean. How did Noah know this?

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Are you saying that Satan is a real being?

In the Jungian sense of that Archetypes are real beings. I have ideas about that.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

In the Jungian sense of that Archetypes are real beings. I have ideas about that.

Are you thinking that there was a person of such character that his actions were immortalized as the archetype for Satan?

I do not think Trump is that old.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

So that's why he was cursed!

He is forever struck from the books by entomologists round the world too.

They couldn't have ate rabbits. Or maybe they could have. The mandate for seven of the clean animals was there. But Moses hadn't yet received that bit about what animals are clean and unclean. How did Noah know this?

Presumably, he received all that from God.

What I find noteworthy is that every time some fundamentalists thinks they have all the answers, they do not and they only open up more questions that need more answers.

Not believing that the flood was a real event in no way prevents a person from having the Bible as the source of their theology nor does it prevent them from being a Christian. Christ never mentioned that biblical inerrancy was a stipulation for being saved.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Are you thinking that there was a person of such character that his actions were immortalized as the archetype for Satan?

I do not think Trump is that old.

I say we take this conversation and get all Jungian with it. Are you jiggy with that?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I say we take this conversation and get all Jungian with it. Are you jiggy with that?

It would be rather one-sided, considering my knowledge of Jung is pretty limited. But feel free not to let my ignorance be an impediment to your knowledge. I am not a fundamentalist.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

It would be rather one-sided, considering my knowledge of Jung is pretty limited. But feel free not to let my ignorance be an impediment to your knowledge. I am not a fundamentalist.

I will give background, I love giving background. But I do suggest that people look up Jung's and Campbell's perspective so they may understand because it is going to be a roller coaster ride into memes, myths and meaning. I took this ride and it's fun.