What Does "Feminism" Mean to You?

[work in progress]

I am not going to break your whole argument down because I am tired from work and not in the mood for a long drawn out discussion. The OP is talking about "what feminism means to you?" I believe I have demonstrated that.

In 2009 white women on average made more than black, latino, and asian men (I believe) the racial gap is ever so more increasing. Point blank feminism represents women and in some cases exaggerate gender issues. Plain and simple. If any philosophy is bent on seeking equality key words like feminine or feminism should not be at the forefront. I would rather people seek equality of humans than anything. Feminism does not address all complex issues point blank.

And white men made more than white women. My point was that your point that the modern feminist movement not addressing the issues of black women was only a factor in the early years when the movement was a middle and upper middle class phenomena.

But, what I find disturbing in your rationalizations about "equality" is that no disadvantaged group should fight collectively as a group. This is totally ludicrous if you really care about equality as you claim, because an individual's ability to have control of their lives depends on individual net worth. If they are already marginalized because of low income, then these inequalities become entrenched....which I suspect is the objective of libertarian reasoning despite its flowery rhetoric.

Now, besides money issues, I already mentioned the problems related to violence and safety, which are of concern to all women, but especially to women of low income who do not own cars and have to take public transit to and from work at late hours of the day. Dealing with these concerns, a lot of the men in atheist/humanist circles are tone deaf and engaged in trolling attacks on women in the movement who have complained about sexual harassment at The Amazing Meeting conferences and atheist/humanist conferences, such as this one for example that occurred a couple of years ago and showed what an ******* Richard Dawkins is:
http://skepchick.org/2011/07/the-privilege-delusion/

 

[Mr. Skittles]

And white men made more than white women. My point was that your point that the modern feminist movement not addressing the issues of black women was only a factor in the early years when the movement was a middle and upper middle class phenomena.

But, what I find disturbing in your rationalizations about "equality" is that no disadvantaged group should fight collectively as a group. This is totally ludicrous if you really care about equality as you claim, because an individual's ability to have control of their lives depends on individual net worth. If they are already marginalized because of low income, then these inequalities become entrenched....which I suspect is the objective of libertarian reasoning despite its flowery rhetoric.

Now, besides money issues, I already mentioned the problems related to violence and safety, which are of concern to all women, but especially to women of low income who do not own cars and have to take public transit to and from work at late hours of the day. Dealing with these concerns, a lot of the men in atheist/humanist circles are tone deaf and engaged in trolling attacks on women in the movement who have complained about sexual harassment at The Amazing Meeting conferences and atheist/humanist conferences, such as this one for example that occurred a couple of years ago and showed what an ******* Richard Dawkins is:
http://skepchick.org/2011/07/the-privilege-delusion/

I hardly think feminism addresses racism in fact feminism doesn't actively make the distinction within patriarchal tradition as whether its "white patriarchy" or something else. Modern feminism does not actively address those other complex issues such as:

What does feminism say about illegal immigrant women coming to the U.S?

What does feminism say about women who CHOOSE to wear the burka? Is it repressive or liberating? If its repressive how does one outside that culture (which existed for centuries) determine how clothing is repressive?

What does feminism say about white women making more than African, Asian, Latino men?

How does feminism define sexual objectivity and does that definition also includes women who actively seek out sex jobs on their own accord?

Many more questions but so far no present literature is answering those questions.

 

[dust1n]

I hardly think feminism addresses racism in fact feminism doesn't actively make the distinction within patriarchal tradition as whether its "white patriarchy" or something else. Modern feminism does not actively address those other complex issues such as:

McIntosh, Frye, Stubblefield...

What does feminism say about illegal immigrant women coming to the U.S?

Anzaldua, Moraga...

What does feminism say about women who CHOOSE to wear the burka? Is it repressive or liberating? If its repressive how does one outside that culture (which existed for centuries) determine how clothing is repressive?

Valenti (pro burqa)... Hirschmann (con burqa)...

What does feminism say about white women making more than African, Asian, Latino men?

The first list....

How does feminism define sexual objectivity and does that definition also includes women who actively seek out sex jobs on their own accord?

Levy, Sommers, Wolf...

Many more questions but so far no present literature is answering those questions.

:sleep: Didn't you already indicate that you weren't going to read the literature?

EDIT: In the other thread that is... sorry...
The multi-70-paged-threads about the same topic is starting to take its tool on my brain.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

McIntosh, Frye, Stubblefield...

Anzaldua, Moraga...

Valenti (pro burqa)... Hirschmann (con burqa)...

The first list....

Levy, Sommers, Wolf...

:sleep: Didn't you already indicate that you weren't going to read the literature?

EDIT: In the other thread that is... sorry...
The multi-70-paged-threads about the same topic is starting to take its tool on my brain.

You've just dropped names. Doesn't answer my question. What? by those names am I supposed to do my research to confirm it? That is similar to me asking a question and someone telling me to google the answer

 

[dust1n]

You've just dropped names. Doesn't answer my question. What? by those names am I supposed to do my research to confirm it? That is similar to me asking a question and someone telling me to google the answer

I'm not doing your research for you. If you want to continue presuming so much about 'feminism' go right ahead. I'll be sitting here not taking it very seriously anymore.

 

[Storm]

I hardly think feminism addresses racism in fact feminism doesn't actively make the distinction within patriarchal tradition as whether its "white patriarchy" or something else.

In fact, it frequently does, though tangentially. Modern feminism recognizes the interaction of racial and gender issues.

What does feminism say about illegal immigrant women coming to the U.S?

How is that relevant?

What does feminism say about women who CHOOSE to wear the burka? Is it repressive or liberating? If its repressive how does one outside that culture (which existed for centuries) determine how clothing is repressive?

My thoughts on the subject.

What does feminism say about white women making more than African, Asian, Latino men?

Feminism says nothing. FeminisTS are usually just as concerned with racism as patriarchy, see above.

How does feminism define sexual objectivity and does that definition also includes women who actively seek out sex jobs on their own accord?

Objectivity? Did you mean objectification?

 

[Mr. Skittles]

In fact, it frequently does, though tangentially. Modern feminism recognizes the interaction of racial and gender issues.


How is that relevant?


My thoughts on the subject.


Feminism says nothing. FeminisTS are usually just as concerned with racism as patriarchy, see above.


Objectivity? Did you mean objectification?

Yes sorry objectification was the appropriate word I was looking for.

As far as you questioning whether illegal immigrant women is relevant, well the term comes to mind "anchor babies." Much like they told japanese women in the 90's about being pregnant and coming to U.S soil to have their babies. In Los Angeles a lot of hispanics mostly from Mexico, El Salvador, and Guatemala, the women come here, get preggo, come to our hospitals with no insurance. Get on medicare and have their kids with the assumption that the Government won't deport them because their child is a U.S citizen. I really think such a dubject is relevant because its women making these choices.

Like I said as you failed to disclose why does modern feminism not address why white women make more than black, asian, and hispanic men? Maybe the gap is closing between Asian men and white women but still, white women generally make more than minority men....So um what say you?

 

[Storm]

Yes sorry objectification was the appropriate word I was looking for.

As far as you questioning whether illegal immigrant women is relevant, well the term comes to mind "anchor babies." Much like they told japanese women in the 90's about being pregnant and coming to U.S soil to have their babies. In Los Angeles a lot of hispanics mostly from Mexico, El Salvador, and Guatemala, the women come here, get preggo, come to our hospitals with no insurance. Get on medicare and have their kids with the assumption that the Government won't deport them because their child is a U.S citizen. I really think such a dubject is relevant because its women making these choices.

The subject of illegal immigration has nothing to do with women's rights.

Like I said as you failed to disclose why does modern feminism not address why white women make more than black, asian, and hispanic men? Maybe the gap is closing between Asian men and white women but still, white women generally make more than minority men....So um what say you?

I did not. I said it has nothing to do with feminism, but feminists often care just as much about racial issues as gender.

 

[Mr. Skittles]

The subject of illegal immigration has nothing to do with women's rights.


I did not. I said it has nothing to do with feminism, but feminists often care just as much about racial issues as gender.

I don't see how illegal immigration is not apart of women's rights. You can ask the question "do immigrant women have an ethical right to seek refuge in a neighboring country even though they are knowingly breaking the law?" As I mentioned the term anchor babies is a domestic issue for us

 

[Mr. Skittles]

I'm not doing your research for you. If you want to continue presuming so much about 'feminism' go right ahead. I'll be sitting here not taking it very seriously anymore.

Sorry you feel that way, then again this thread is about how we feel about feminism. Whether I am right or wrong this is how I feel

 

[dust1n]

Sorry you feel that way, then again this thread is about how we feel about feminism. Whether I am right or wrong this is how I feel

Certainly, but if you are going to insinuate that feminism hasn't addressed these questions, then you would be wrong. I'm not going to scroll through the books I do have finding all the specific references to address you qualms. But if you prefer to state things about a philosophy you have already admitted you have no interest into looking into, then don't expect anyone else to take it seriously.

 

[painted wolf]

Sorry you feel that way, then again this thread is about how we feel about feminism. Whether I am right or wrong this is how I feel

And with that everything you have said is rendered meaningless... IMHO.

If someone doesn't care if what they think is right or wrong but are willing to spout any nonsense that catches their fancy... they stop being intellectually honest and become a waste of time.

wa:do

 

[s2a]

Feminism is dead.

I won an argument with my wife... first victory in 24 years...

Earthquakes, floods, pestilence, and frequent asteroid strikes may now be considered imminent...

...you have all been warned...

 

[Revoltingest]

I won an argument with my wife... first victory in 24 years..

How wonderful that she let you believe that.
They so seldom indulge us with this fantasy.

 

[Me Myself]

How wonderful that she let you believe that.
They so seldom indulge us with this fantasy.

I have never had any problem winning an argument to a girl. I mean not more than with most people, which means I rarely have a problem.

I guess it comes with the perks of thinking too much what you are doing most of the time, and thinking too much what other people are doing. Don´t remember ever being taken by surprise by an argument with a female friend or with my ex.

The only trick is to know them and know yourself. Of course, being right helps

 

[Mr. Skittles]

Certainly, but if you are going to insinuate that feminism hasn't addressed these questions, then you would be wrong. I'm not going to scroll through the books I do have finding all the specific references to address you qualms. But if you prefer to state things about a philosophy you have already admitted you have no interest into looking into, then don't expect anyone else to take it seriously.

Let me reiterate and say that modern feminism, that is, feminism of today does not address these issues extensively. I will credit feminist in that perhaps these issues were addressed before, however my position is that on crucial issues such as illegal immigration, making distinctions between white patriarchy and patriarchy of people of color. I thought this was a debate? I thought the whole point of a debate is to state the facts and have references to back up your claims not tell someone to google names and books. No offense to you dust1n you've been excellent and patient with me, I am speaking in general. Your very knowledgable dude my man!

 

[Mr. Skittles]

And with that everything you have said is rendered meaningless... IMHO.

If someone doesn't care if what they think is right or wrong but are willing to spout any nonsense that catches their fancy... they stop being intellectually honest and become a waste of time.

wa:do

Well if its a waste of time why even bother to respond? The red highlight in my words was to show me being open to being wrong not that if I care if I am wrong. Its called being open for criticism. Not too many people online and offline have the audacity to admit being open to being wrong. But if what I say is meaningless feel free to discontinue responding to me