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What does 'in his image' mean ?

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
Kat, you claim people have seen God.... The Gospel according to John, 1:18 "No one has ever seen God."
Are you saying I'm pulling my beliefs out of thin air, Jeff?

Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Exodus 24:10-11 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

Exodus 33:22-23 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

If you want to keep score, I believe I'm ahead 4 to 1 now. ;)

And the dove, I believe at Jesus' baptism represents the Holy Spirit, not God. Which also shows the trinity. :D
I believe the dove represented the Holy Spirit, too, Jeff. That's what I said in my post. In fact, my exact words were, "One of the abilities the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) has is the ability to manifest Himself in any form. He did so at the baptism of Jesus Christ, appearing as a Dove, while the voice of God the Father was heard speaking from Heaven."


I'm not sure how it the appearance of the Holy Ghost in the form of a dove proves that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all part of a single invisible substance, though. If anything, I think it proves precisely the opposite.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
So Kat, you then claim John was lying?
Of course not, Jeff. Do you really think I'd make a claim of that sort?

My belief is that John was speaking of the natural man. I believe that, if God were to will it, as He apparently did in the examples I gave, a man can be given power to see God and live. I would not presume to say that God does not have the power to make this possible. Granted, it's a rare thing for a man to be given this power, and I think John was right to stress that for any of us, in our present situations, to believe that we could bear the presence of God would be a big mistake.

What do you think about the verses from Exodus. Do you believe these were imagined sightings of God or what?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; Only he has seen the Father. (John 6:46, NIV) Once again 1st John 4:12 No one has ever seen God.... Continued... :)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
"No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; Only he has seen the Father. (John 6:46, NIV) Once again 1st John 4:12 No one has ever seen God.... Continued... :)
So you obviously don't believe the accounts in Exodus. Okay, I'm surprised but that's your prerogative.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
And in Exodus, go back a couple more verses.... 33:20 "But my face you cannot see, for no man sees me and still lives...."
 

FFH

Veteran Member
Michel, you make an interesting point, about healing, in your beginning post.

Jesus used earth and spittle, and made clay, and placed it on a mans eyes, and he was told to wash in the pool of Salom.

John 9: 5-7

5- As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
6- When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay.
7- And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Silom, (which is by interpretation, Sent) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

A healing today must be done in the name of Jesus Christ. It must be done by the power of Jesus Christ. The phrase "I heal you in the name of Jesus Christ" must be said, otherwise it is invalid. We must always give credit to Jesus Christ, in whom our healing comes. We cannot heal without using the name of Jesus Christ. The method may not be important to all religions, but the name in which the healing is done, is very important. We can do nothing, except through Christ our Savior. He is the one that heals us and has born the stripes for our diseases.

Jesus Christ took 39 stripes on his back. There are 39 basic diseases. He was bruised for our iniquity. We must look to Christ for our healing. He was raised from the dead so that all might live and be well. All brokeness of body and of spirit can and will be healed by believing, only, in Jesus Christ. A free gift, at death, to all, both sinners and saints will be a perfect resurrected body. Our spiritual man is another matter. Whatever degree of spiritual progression or digression that we obtain in this life, will follow us into the next life.

We must do everything in the name of Jesus Christ. If you can't do it in the name of Jesus Christ then it should be avoided. Satan will have us try to draw upon his powers by not using Jesus Christ's name. Satan hates that name. When we use Jesus Christ's name Satan has to leave. Whatever prayer you pray, begin it and end it in the name of Jesus Christ.

I have had three seperate healings this way. One was instant and complete. Another was instant but was not complete and took a few weeks for me to completely heal. The other one I am currently experiencing now. I had a miracualous healing of the bones in my foot (this was instant), before that I was unable to put any pressure on it for, 4 months, without unbearable pain. Then a few weeks later I had another miraculous healing of the scar tissue that had developed deep inside my foot. A lot of dead tissue in my foot was removed miraculously and the pain in my foot completely went away. Before then I could not even touch or move my foot without pain. I do not have pain in my foot now but it is still stiff. I have loosen it up a bit or wait for it to completely regenerate itself. All of the tissues in my foot were pretty much destroyed. It was blue and grey for weeks then purple now it is red and looks new. Just a liitle swollen. It is almost completely healed. My foot was smashed between my 400 pound motorcycle and some guys bumper at 15 miles an hour. Now I just have to wait for the foot to loosen up a bit and the swelling to go down. I almost completely healed. Either I will get another instant healing or I will just wait for it to completely heal on it's own, which I feel it will do now. The body is designed to heal to a certain degree, but when it can't I think we should call on the healing powers of Jesus Christ to do what the body is not designed to do automatically. Jesus Christ wants us to do this. He begs us to do it. He begs us to call on His name for healing.

I have experience fever of 101 return to normal in an instant, but did not thank the Father in Jesus Christ's name for this, and the fever returned. Thanking the Father, for healing, in Jesus Christ's name is extremely important. We must pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ for our healing. It will happen if you keep asking for it, especially if you are doing lot's of things for God. He is quick to return the many things that we have done for Him, in the form of healings and other miracles.

I need to add that none of my healings happened as a result of anyone laying hands on me or reciting any incantaion. I was healed directly by God because of a simple prayer said by another Christian. The instant and complete healing came as a reslult of a prayer from an LDS missionary companion of mine and the other two came as a result of a prayer said over me by two different Charismatic Christians. Yes, they can heal too.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Katzpur said:
So you obviously don't believe the accounts in Exodus. Okay, I'm surprised but that's your prerogative.
And if you choose not to believe Jesus Christ, that's your prerogative. :)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
And if you choose not to believe Jesus Christ, that's your prerogative. :)
Jeff, I do believe Jesus Christ. He is my Savior and Redeemer. I love and worhip and honor Him as I know you do. What would prompt you to say such a thing? That's not like you.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Christ himself stated that no one has seen the Father. (God) You choose to believe in the OT, which is full of metaphors, I choose to believe the Word of Christ. Read my previous posts. :)
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
Christ himself stated that no one has seen the Father. (God) You choose to believe in the OT, which is full of metaphors, I choose to believe the Word of Christ. Read my previous posts. :)
Christ actually said, "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." I believe what He said. I just don't interpret it in quite the same way as you do. I believe that God's prophets were men "of God." Consequently, God made it possible for them to see Him.

I really don't want to get into a nasty argument with you about this, Jeff. Right now, I'm feeling kind of hurt that you would accuse me of not believing Jesus Christ, when you might have just questioned my interpretation of that verse instead. Maybe we ought to both step back before any more negative remarks are made.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
I've read the NIV. KJ, NKJ and the New American Bible, all say the same thing, but you have never stated what you think it means. I really can't see any other translation then the literal one.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
I've read the NIV. KJ, NKJ and the New American Bible, all say the same thing, but you have never stated what you think it means. I really can't see any other translation then the literal one.
I just did. I said that Christ's clarification ("save he which is of God") makes sense to me. That way I can believe both the Old and New Testaments and not have to disregard either one.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
God is spirit... ergo, his image is a spiritual one: not physical.

We are SO focused on the physical, the here and now that it's not surprising that so many want to believe that God "looks" like a human. We'll know one day! :D
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
NetDoc said:
God is spirit... ergo, his image is a spiritual one: not physical.
What can I say? There is no such thing as a spiritual image. The adjective "spiritual" cannot be accurately applied to the noun "image."

What is a spirit anyway? To me, it's a life force. As a matter of fact, the word "pneuma", which was translated in the verse you are referring to as "spirit" is translated elsewhere in the scriptures as "life." Hence, God is life. He is also love and light. These are some of His many attributes, but none of these attributes precludes His spirit occupying a body. I am spirit, clothed in flesh. God is a Spirit, too, but the Bible never says He is an unembodied spirit.

We are SO focused on the physical, the here and now that it's not surprising that so many want to believe that God "looks" like a human.
Actually, in my experience so many want to believe precisely the opposite -- that God couldn't possibly look like the offspring whom He said were created in His image. Those who believe that to be true are a tiny minority.
We'll know one day! :D
That part you got right! :D
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
NetDoc said:
God is spirit... ergo, his image is a spiritual one: not physical.

We are SO focused on the physical, the here and now that it's not surprising that so many want to believe that God "looks" like a human. We'll know one day! :D
Well stated. totally agree
Kat, whether or not it says no man has or hath seen the father.... That's pretty clear​
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
jgallandt said:
Kat, whether or not it says no man has or hath seen the father.... That's pretty clear
Jeff,



Just not quite as clear as "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."



I'm tired of arguing with you, Jeff. You've always been one of my favorite RFers, and we're not going anywhere with this discussion. We're both just getting frustrated with each other. Now, please... be my guest... Have the last word. I'll continue to debate that we are created in God's image, but I have said all I have to say on whether any man has ever seen God.


God bless,

Kathryn
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Dear Kat...

Show me one scripture where it shows God to be "physical".

John 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." NIV

I Corinthians 15;50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. NIV

The flesh is perishable: which is unlike God.

The spirit is imperishable: which IS like God.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
So Kat,

How do you become "like" God? Get a face lift? :D

II Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV
 
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