Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I certainly have, and nowhere in the Bible does it say that we will be "saved" from physical death.
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What does it actually mean to be saved in Christianity?
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
cataway
Well-Known Member
''Acts 24:15And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous''
a resurrection is for some one that is dead ,they are made alive again and do all the things that living people do. those that do receive a resurrection are saved from the grave ,saved from death . there are also many millions that will not have to die . they are also saved from death in that they never will have to die all because of what Jesus did and will yet do in the future
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Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I would start with checking about God.
Spiritual life, spiritual death. You first need to give evidence about existence of soul/spirit.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is evidence but nothing that you would consider to be evidence.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I have read both Bible and Quran. But there is no reason that I should believe in what is written in those books. No evidence of what is written is provided. We too have our books, but we do not blindly believe in them. Bhagawat Purana mentions airplanes and atom bomb around the beginning of Christian Era. Would you believe that?
Evidence that satisfies only those who already believe that way is no evidence.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You are free to believe that if you want to. Below is what I believe about the resurrection because it makes sense.
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
Physical bodies rising from graves and their flesh becoming reconstituted makes no sense. Why would God make humans mortal just to reverse mortality. God is all-knowing and all-wise so God always gets it right the first time. God had no plan to bring physical bodies back to life That belief came about by a misinterpretation of the Bible.. Restoring physical bodies to life would serve absolutely no purpose at all except to make some Christians happy, but that is not how God operates. God does not do stupid things just to make some people happy.
Besides that, what you and all the JWs believe runs completely contrary to what Paul said.
Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.
1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation
40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.
51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!
54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]
Read full chapter
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We did not 'already believe' before we looked at the evidence.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I wonder what you looked at and what you believed.
InChrist
Free4ever
I think the message of the Bible is that this fallen world is temporary and it will be consumed by fire, God will create a new heaven and earth where no sin can exist and where only purity, holiness, beauty and righteousness dwell. Since everyone sins and falls short of God’s righteousness we need to be saved by Christ and have His righteousness applied to our life to enter into eternal life in the new heaven and earth.
The Bible is full of encouragement and instruction for one who has truly trusted Jesus concerning the importance of submitting their life, thoughts and actions to Him daily.
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
2 Peter 3:10-13
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I believed what I looked at.
"Being saved," and having "eternal life" are two entirely different concepts.
When Jesus was talking from the cross (where he was either tied or nailed), he said that he who believes in me shall have everlasting life. A human apostle interpreted this (or perhaps misinterpreted this) as cleansing sins. Could it be a curse, rather than a blessing? What is the normal reaction of a person who is tortured to death? Normally, they would curse their captors. Could it be that Jesus was cursing humans to rot in hell for all eternity for torturing him (and ultimately killing him)?
Romans 10:9-10 "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Is this statement from Jesus (who, at this time, is dead), or is this statement from a human? Can humans make mistakes?
What would heaven be like if bad people are let in? If the qualification for heaven is merely belief, and not based on goodness, heaven would be hellish.
Clearly, one of the requirements to be admitted to heaven is goodness.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Five decades is a long time.
The way I look at it, it was known that Jesus would not fail, whether there was a chance of it or not. The prophecies are about a Messiah who does not fail. He came to do a job and no doubt it was not a walk over and required all that Jesus had to face the temptations He did and not sin and to not step away from the road that His Father had sent Him to walk.
If He had failed that would have meant that Satan had made God fail and would have won the day and would have shown that God is not righteous.
Death on a cross and separation from His Father in death would have been the hardest part I think and He had to be determined to do it and knowing the outcome, believing what the scriptures said about Him and trusting His Father would not have an easy thing and maybe it would have been even harder, knowing who He was, to humble Himself and not strike back.
Isa 50:6 I offered My back to those who struck Me, and My cheeks to those who tore out My beard. I did not hide My face from scorn and spittle. 7 Because the Lord GOD helps Me, I have not been disgraced; therefore I have set My face like flint, and I know that I will not be put to shame. 8 The One who vindicates Me is near. Who will dare to contend with Me? Let us confront each other! Who has a case against Me? Let him approach Me!…
Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Salvation as Jesus taught it in the original, pre-cross Gospel was the restoration of relations with God or Allah if you prefer. Judaism had greatly complicated the matter to the point where a religion of rituals, man made laws and endless festivals replaced the personal relationship between God and his loyal child. In Judaism God was a national deity, in the Gospel of the Kingdom God is a Loving Father even to each individual.
Later, as Jesus was dining at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with Him and His disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked His disciples, “Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”12On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Sadly, Christianity re-complicated the simple concepts of Jesus.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Eventhough they'll probably never admit it, it seems to me that what they mean is that they get a "free pass" for whatever they do or did that is supposedly bad and get rewarded anyway.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
From a few Christans i do have this feeling too. But not from all of them
that is one reason for my OP
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
In my experience, those who do not give us that feeling, are also the ones that won't be claiming that they are "saved".From a few Christans i do have this feeling too. But not from all of them
That’s not a verse from Matthew.
When I was a teen, I went to a friend's church and was saved. All I had to do is answer "Yes" to "Do you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior?"
I guess it didn't take.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
CH Rist spirit gases that arise arose out of God stone. Were never anti by intent. Kept life safe. I was saved living as life was never anti. Basic science.