What does it mean Hate your life and you shall find it?

[Apologetics]

This passage is found in 3 Gospels Mat Mark Luke. They all say the same thing. If you start with Math 16:24 and read through to the 26th verse you get the complete context of the passages. So starting with the 24th verse Jesus says if any man will come after me let him first take up his cross and deny himself and follow me.

These are figures of speech and metaphors . Just like eat my flesh,drink my blood or dont cast your pearls before swine or a land that flows with milk and honey and many more like these.

The cross represents death to sin. Rom 6:6 our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed that we from here on out should not serve sin. The deny yourself is to refuse, resist and cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself above the knowledge of God and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Cor 10:5

What are we too deny. Gal 5:19 the lusts of the flesh. Why . Because they reside outside of God's ways. Heb 3:10 Outside of God's Laws. You see God is the maker and he is the lawgiver Isa 33:22. We are the clay he is the potter Isa 64:8

Now Math 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.The context in Math 16:24 is the way one lives their live. example,Murder,adultery,thief a whore monger an Idolater or lier ect, of which Jesus and Paul taught to deny to crucify Rom 6:6 those behaviors that are outside of God's laws.

So when Math 16:25 says For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: The people who save their lives are those that preserve their behavior ,the way they live. They never change .They remain the same.They refuse to abide by Gods laws. So they save /preserve their way of Life. And as a result when death finally overcomes them they suffer the punishment of eternal death. Lose their life Never to live again. .Let me show you those who chose to save their lives. But in the end lost it.Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 22:15

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


You see these people preserved their way of Life/ Saved it.They never changed,They remained the same And in the end were punished with eternal death. Lost their Mortal lives


Now whosoever will lose/Hate his life for my sake shall find it. Lose/hate your life is the denying part of Math 16:24 Hate means to look upon in a repulsive way. Read Eze 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. The word loath is the same as hate. And the context is hating ones own behavior.
You see those people that follow Jesus are those that follow his teachings and in these passages Jesus taught to deny yourself of sin or behavior that is outside of God's laws of which I listed a few above. When people begin to deny Murder in the heart, adultery in the heart.Lying,stealing, coveting,Idolatry and envy they lose/ forsake their former way of behaviors.Rom 6:17-18 Thus they lose their behavior which is their way of living. But in the end gain eternal Life. Which is the reward the inheritance for living according to Gods ways his laws.They lose their life. It's a figure of speech. that means stop disobeying Gods Laws.


This is why Jesus said Math 7:13-14

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction Eternal death,That's those who preserved their way of living Gal 5:19 the works of the flesh the broad way Rev 21:8 Rev 22:15 and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, Thats those who lose/hate their life or deny their former way of living and change,Rom 6:17-18 living according to Gods way, his laws which leads unto life, Eternal Life and few there be that find it. Because Gods the maker .He sets the rules

Isa 33:22 And there is no one who can Stay his hand or say what are you doing.Dan 4:35


So that's the real answer to this passage

 

[Brickjectivity]

This passage is found in 3 Gospels Mat Mark Luke. They all say the same thing. If you start with Math 16:24 and read through to the 26th verse you get the complete context of the passages. So starting with the 24th verse Jesus says if any man will come after me let him first take up his cross and deny himself and follow me.

These are figures of speech and metaphors . Just like eat my flesh,drink my blood or dont cast your pearls before swine or a land that flows with milk and honey and many more like these.

There are metaphors, but denying yourself is not one of them.

The cross represents death to sin.

The cross represents your complete cessation, all that is you and which makes you who you are goes away. This includes being dead to sin but also to yourself as there is no distinction between being yourself and being a sinner. There is no 'You' anymore. To quote from the gospel John "Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. (NIV 12:24)" To quote from Paul "To live is Christ and to die is gain... (NIV Phil 1:21)" There's no you anymore if you are in Christ. Here is Paul again speaking to the Galatians "have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20) Dying to yourself is not a metaphor but is what you must do to obey these requirements and to be in Christ. Casting pearls before swine is some kind of metaphor and land that flows is imagery, but denying yourself is a requirement.

What about when Paul says that we are seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus? Not a metaphor either. What about where it says we were dead in our trespasses and sins but have been resurrected? Also not a metaphor.

 

[74x12]

This passage is found in 3 Gospels Mat Mark Luke. They all say the same thing. If you start with Math 16:24 and read through to the 26th verse you get the complete context of the passages. So starting with the 24th verse Jesus says if any man will come after me let him first take up his cross and deny himself and follow me.

These are figures of speech and metaphors . Just like eat my flesh,drink my blood or dont cast your pearls before swine or a land that flows with milk and honey and many more like these.

The cross represents death to sin. Rom 6:6 our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed that we from here on out should not serve sin. The deny yourself is to refuse, resist and cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself above the knowledge of God and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Cor 10:5

What are we too deny. Gal 5:19 the lusts of the flesh. Why . Because they reside outside of God's ways. Heb 3:10 Outside of God's Laws. You see God is the maker and he is the lawgiver Isa 33:22. We are the clay he is the potter Isa 64:8

Now Math 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.The context in Math 16:24 is the way one lives their live. example,Murder,adultery,thief a whore monger an Idolater or lier ect, of which Jesus and Paul taught to deny to crucify Rom 6:6 those behaviors that are outside of God's laws.

So when Math 16:25 says For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: The people who save their lives are those that preserve their behavior ,the way they live. They never change .They remain the same.They refuse to abide by Gods laws. So they save /preserve their way of Life. And as a result when death finally overcomes them they suffer the punishment of eternal death. Lose their life Never to live again. .Let me show you those who chose to save their lives. But in the end lost it.Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 22:15

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


You see these people preserved their way of Life/ Saved it.They never changed,They remained the same And in the end were punished with eternal death. Lost their Mortal lives


Now whosoever will lose/Hate his life for my sake shall find it. Lose/hate your life is the denying part of Math 16:24 Hate means to look upon in a repulsive way. Read Eze 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. The word loath is the same as hate. And the context is hating ones own behavior.
You see those people that follow Jesus are those that follow his teachings and in these passages Jesus taught to deny yourself of sin or behavior that is outside of God's laws of which I listed a few above. When people begin to deny Murder in the heart, adultery in the heart.Lying,stealing, coveting,Idolatry and envy they lose/ forsake their former way of behaviors.Rom 6:17-18 Thus they lose their behavior which is their way of living. But in the end gain eternal Life. Which is the reward the inheritance for living according to Gods ways his laws.They lose their life. It's a figure of speech. that means stop disobeying Gods Laws.


This is why Jesus said Math 7:13-14

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction Eternal death,That's those who preserved their way of living Gal 5:19 the works of the flesh the broad way Rev 21:8 Rev 22:15 and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, Thats those who lose/hate their life or deny their former way of living and change,Rom 6:17-18 living according to Gods way, his laws which leads unto life, Eternal Life and few there be that find it. Because Gods the maker .He sets the rules

Isa 33:22 And there is no one who can Stay his hand or say what are you doing.Dan 4:35


So that's the real answer to this passage

I'm not contradicting because I think there are many layers of revelation to it. But, ultimately it's about those who must face martyrdom rather than deny the faith.

 

[wizanda]

What does it mean Hate your life and you shall find it?

It doesn't say 'life' which is 'Zoe' in Greek, it says 'Psyche' which mean self ...

Here is an article explaining where many of the verses that speak of selflessness, have been made into a form of Martyism.

So starting with the 24th verse Jesus says if any man will come after me let him first take up his cross and deny himself and follow me.

The cross is an ancient symbol of east to west, future and past; which meant making a monument to God in ancient Hebrew...

Turning a cross into symbolism that we must be tortured as the intended meaning; has completely missed the spiritual application of what was being said at the time.

Everyone must hate everyone's 'self' and their own 'self'; so they only serve one master, as then they love God with all mind, body, soul and strength, then they have infinite love from God, to love their neighbor.

In my opinion.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It could mean something like this:

 

[Apologetics]

There are metaphors, but denying yourself is not one of them.
The cross represents your complete cessation, all that is you and which makes you who you are goes away. This includes being dead to sin but also to yourself as there is no distinction between being yourself and being a sinner. There is no 'You' anymore. To quote from the gospel John "Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. (NIV 12:24)" To quote from Paul "To live is Christ and to die is gain... (NIV Phil 1:21)" There's no you anymore if you are in Christ. Here is Paul again speaking to the Galatians "have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20) Dying to yourself is not a metaphor but is what you must do to obey these requirements and to be in Christ. Casting pearls before swine is some kind of metaphor and land that flows is imagery, but denying yourself is a requirement.

What about when Paul says that we are seated in heavenly places with Christ Jesus? Not a metaphor either. What about where it says we were dead in our trespasses and sins but have been resurrected? Also not a metaphor.

Please forgive me .The phrase (taking up your cross) is what I was referring to as a metaphor. Jesus did not literally mean to go cut a tree down and throw it over your should and carry it all day long. It was a metaphor ,a figure of speech to illustrate a message. Just as Gal 5:24 They that are Christ have crucified the flesh. Here again the word crucify is a metaphor symbolizing dying to sinful fleshly desires that are contrary to Gods Laws.
You are correct there is no more you if you are in Christ. That you is the lusts of the flesh Gal 5:19 The lying. The stealing the Idolatry,The whore monger the murdering That You must die.

 

[Muffled]

I believe there could be many meanings but the one that fits into God's plan is that of giving one's life to Jesus. So I have lost my life since it is no longer mine but belongs to Jesus and in doing so I have a life more abundant and eternal life to come.

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

Joh 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

 

[Muffled]

I'm not contradicting because I think there are many layers of revelation to it. But, ultimately it's about those who must face martyrdom rather than deny the faith.

There is this one: Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. &
Eph 2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, &
Rom. 8:10 ¶ And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Muffled]

It doesn't say 'life' which is 'Zoe' in Greek, it says 'Psyche' which mean self ...

Here is an article explaining where many of the verses that speak of selflessness, have been made into a form of Martyism.

The cross is an ancient symbol of east to west, future and past; which meant making a monument to God in ancient Hebrew...

Turning a cross into symbolism that we must be tortured as the intended meaning; has completely missed the spiritual application of what was being said at the time.

Everyone must hate everyone's 'self' and their own 'self'; so they only serve one master, as then they love God with all mind, body, soul and strength, then they have infinite love from God, to love their neighbor.

In my opinion.

I believe the Romans would not have used the cross in that context. One could say that Jesus is Jewish so He would know it and that He is God and knows everything but I believe Jesus is referring to the context of His crucifixion and this verse seems to indicate that:
Lu 23:31 For if they do these things in the green tree, what shall be done in the dry?

 

[Apologetics]

I believe there could be many meanings but the one that fits into God's plan is that of giving one's life to Jesus. So I have lost my life since it is no longer mine but belongs to Jesus and in doing so I have a life more abundant and eternal life to come.

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but that he may steal, and kill, and destroy: I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

Joh 10:28 and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.

You have a misunderstanding. As long as you or I commit sin, that is walk according to the works of the flesh Adultery,Fornication jealousy,envy murder malice Hatred ect we have not given our lives ( Life style) to Christ. If we as the called of Jesus Christ walk in the flesh we will die eternally Rom 8:13. If we the called of Jesus Christ do not continue in Gods goodness we will be cut off Rom 11:22

To give ones life to Christ means the body of sin ( disobedience to Gods law)) Has been crucified,destroyed and obedience to Gods laws are all that remain Rom 6:6 And 1 Pet 4:1-2 Luke 14:33 Who so ever he be that does dot forsake all the he has can not be my disciple

What is it that all men share and have in common and have to forsake. Answer the lust of the flesh. Gal 5:19.

As long as one walks in the flesh they have not given their life ( Lifestyle) To Christ.

Math 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

You see the reward is of works not of Grace alone. If our work is of the flesh Gal 5:19 -21 our reward is eternal death Rom 6:23 If our works are of the Spirit Our reward is eternal life John 5:29 those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
Rom 6:22 fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Fruit of holiness is complete obedience to Gods laws.

 

[Apologetics]

There is this one: Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. &
Eph 2:1 And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, &
Rom. 8:10 ¶ And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.

: Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ In this context he talking about as long as he is living he can continue to teach and give instructions on the salvation Jesus Taught. Hes not talking about a righteous life style here but alive to preach the gospel. Hes not talking about the absence of sin in his life which is what Lose your life means its a fiqure of speech.. Context Phil 1:25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain( That is to Live) and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith,
You see this the context of the scripture you used.

Eph 2:1 And you did he make alive, ( initial entrance into Gods Favor )when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,. Context Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past . Paul goes back in the past tense describing what spiritual event took place in their life in th epast .Which was and invitation to The great Supper Parable Luke 14:16 and The wedding parable Mat 22. Both representing Gods invitation to Eternity. When we accept the invitation (Thats the Faith Part) we receive an initial benefit from the invitation which is forgiveness of Sins. Thats the grace part ( favor/Forgivness) Eph 2:8 Through Faith. But the grace part( Favor) is contingent on Faith and Faith alone. For those who did not accept the invitation ( Had no faith)to the great supper and wedding could not to taste of the supper. Luke 14:24 Mat 22:13 They could not participate in eternal life but received Eternal death. But Those who had faith. That faith gave them access to the benefits of Grace Rom 5:2 the first benefit Forgiveness of sin, 2nd the indwelling of Gods Spirit.

The make alive part has nothing to do with a persons losing thier life. Its just a term Paul used to describe Gods acceptance of an individuals repented heart for their past sins Eze 36:31 Condition of a repented soul.

After this initial entrance into Gods Favor one begin to learn how to please the lord in everything they do Col 1:10 2 Pet 1:5 Add to you faith.

Rom. 8:10 ¶ And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness. Now yes this is talking about losing your life (Life style of disobedience) Hes not talking about a physical death here. But death to disobedience of Gods laws.

So if Christ is in us it means we are Not living like the following Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another Now this is what Jesus is talking about losing ones life. The life style of serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another . Thats the forsake all that ones has Part Luke 14:33 Jesus spoke of. If these ect are absent in our life ,then we look and act just like Christ . Thats the Christ in us part. 1 Pet 4:1 Then we have conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29 And when we have done that then we are practicing Holiness and the end of that is everlasting life Rom 6:22 Thats the saving of once life or the finding once life part he spoke of. Its a figure of speech.

Rom. 8:10 And the Spirit is life because of righteousness Thats the part where because there is a lack of foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another ect disobedience /sin in ones life, looking, acting just like Christ 1 Pet 4:1 is the evidence that Gods Spirit is active( Spirit is Life part ) and working in our life.

So Rom 8:10 Is the only scripture here listed that really deals with losing ones life and finding it.

 

[12jtartar]

This passage is found in 3 Gospels Mat Mark Luke. They all say the same thing. If you start with Math 16:24 and read through to the 26th verse you get the complete context of the passages. So starting with the 24th verse Jesus says if any man will come after me let him first take up his cross and deny himself and follow me.

These are figures of speech and metaphors . Just like eat my flesh,drink my blood or dont cast your pearls before swine or a land that flows with milk and honey and many more like these.

The cross represents death to sin. Rom 6:6 our old man is crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed that we from here on out should not serve sin. The deny yourself is to refuse, resist and cast down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself above the knowledge of God and bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. 2 Cor 10:5

What are we too deny. Gal 5:19 the lusts of the flesh. Why . Because they reside outside of God's ways. Heb 3:10 Outside of God's Laws. You see God is the maker and he is the lawgiver Isa 33:22. We are the clay he is the potter Isa 64:8

Now Math 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.The context in Math 16:24 is the way one lives their live. example,Murder,adultery,thief a whore monger an Idolater or lier ect, of which Jesus and Paul taught to deny to crucify Rom 6:6 those behaviors that are outside of God's laws.

So when Math 16:25 says For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: The people who save their lives are those that preserve their behavior ,the way they live. They never change .They remain the same.They refuse to abide by Gods laws. So they save /preserve their way of Life. And as a result when death finally overcomes them they suffer the punishment of eternal death. Lose their life Never to live again. .Let me show you those who chose to save their lives. But in the end lost it.Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 22:15

For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


You see these people preserved their way of Life/ Saved it.They never changed,They remained the same And in the end were punished with eternal death. Lost their Mortal lives


Now whosoever will lose/Hate his life for my sake shall find it. Lose/hate your life is the denying part of Math 16:24 Hate means to look upon in a repulsive way. Read Eze 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. The word loath is the same as hate. And the context is hating ones own behavior.
You see those people that follow Jesus are those that follow his teachings and in these passages Jesus taught to deny yourself of sin or behavior that is outside of God's laws of which I listed a few above. When people begin to deny Murder in the heart, adultery in the heart.Lying,stealing, coveting,Idolatry and envy they lose/ forsake their former way of behaviors.Rom 6:17-18 Thus they lose their behavior which is their way of living. But in the end gain eternal Life. Which is the reward the inheritance for living according to Gods ways his laws.They lose their life. It's a figure of speech. that means stop disobeying Gods Laws.


This is why Jesus said Math 7:13-14

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction Eternal death,That's those who preserved their way of living Gal 5:19 the works of the flesh the broad way Rev 21:8 Rev 22:15 and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, Thats those who lose/hate their life or deny their former way of living and change,Rom 6:17-18 living according to Gods way, his laws which leads unto life, Eternal Life and few there be that find it. Because Gods the maker .He sets the rules

Isa 33:22 And there is no one who can Stay his hand or say what are you doing.Dan 4:35


So that's the real answer to this passage

Apologetics,
In the Bible, the term, Hate, does not mean the same as it does today. The term meant to, love less than, whatever is mentioned.
We can easily understand this by what is said at Luke 14:26. Jesus surely did not mean that anyone should Hate his father or mother. What Jesus meant was, you should love anyone, less than him and his Father, God.

 

[Buddha Dharma]

It could mean something like this:

Yep

 

[Muffled]

You have a misunderstanding. As long as you or I commit sin, that is walk according to the works of the flesh Adultery,Fornication jealousy,envy murder malice Hatred ect we have not given our lives ( Life style) to Christ. If we as the called of Jesus Christ walk in the flesh we will die eternally Rom 8:13. If we the called of Jesus Christ do not continue in Gods goodness we will be cut off Rom 11:22

To give ones life to Christ means the body of sin ( disobedience to Gods law)) Has been crucified,destroyed and obedience to Gods laws are all that remain Rom 6:6 And 1 Pet 4:1-2 Luke 14:33 Who so ever he be that does dot forsake all the he has can not be my disciple

What is it that all men share and have in common and have to forsake. Answer the lust of the flesh. Gal 5:19.

As long as one walks in the flesh they have not given their life ( Lifestyle) To Christ.

Math 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

You see the reward is of works not of Grace alone. If our work is of the flesh Gal 5:19 -21 our reward is eternal death Rom 6:23 If our works are of the Spirit Our reward is eternal life John 5:29 those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
Rom 6:22 fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. Fruit of holiness is complete obedience to Gods laws.

I believe that is news to me since I believe I understand things quite well.

I don't believe I have seen that in scripture anywhere. I would be most happy if a person receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior never sinned but that is not the reality.

I believe the Romans verse does not say that, also the Peter verse and the Luke verse. Your exegesis is not very good.

I believe your conclusions do not follow from your premises.

I believe you have misinterpreted Rom 8:13. There is no mention of eternal death and it can't even be derived from the verse.

Even if I sin I still continue in God's goodness, thank God.

 

[Muffled]

: Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ In this context he talking about as long as he is living he can continue to teach and give instructions on the salvation Jesus Taught. Hes not talking about a righteous life style here but alive to preach the gospel. Hes not talking about the absence of sin in his life which is what Lose your life means its a fiqure of speech.. Context Phil 1:25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain( That is to Live) and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith,
You see this the context of the scripture you used.

Eph 2:1 And you did he make alive, ( initial entrance into Gods Favor )when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins,. Context Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past . Paul goes back in the past tense describing what spiritual event took place in their life in th epast .Which was and invitation to The great Supper Parable Luke 14:16 and The wedding parable Mat 22. Both representing Gods invitation to Eternity. When we accept the invitation (Thats the Faith Part) we receive an initial benefit from the invitation which is forgiveness of Sins. Thats the grace part ( favor/Forgivness) Eph 2:8 Through Faith. But the grace part( Favor) is contingent on Faith and Faith alone. For those who did not accept the invitation ( Had no faith)to the great supper and wedding could not to taste of the supper. Luke 14:24 Mat 22:13 They could not participate in eternal life but received Eternal death. But Those who had faith. That faith gave them access to the benefits of Grace Rom 5:2 the first benefit Forgiveness of sin, 2nd the indwelling of Gods Spirit.

The make alive part has nothing to do with a persons losing thier life. Its just a term Paul used to describe Gods acceptance of an individuals repented heart for their past sins Eze 36:31 Condition of a repented soul.

After this initial entrance into Gods Favor one begin to learn how to please the lord in everything they do Col 1:10 2 Pet 1:5 Add to you faith.

Rom. 8:10 ¶ And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness. Now yes this is talking about losing your life (Life style of disobedience) Hes not talking about a physical death here. But death to disobedience of Gods laws.

So if Christ is in us it means we are Not living like the following Titus 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another Now this is what Jesus is talking about losing ones life. The life style of serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another . Thats the forsake all that ones has Part Luke 14:33 Jesus spoke of. If these ect are absent in our life ,then we look and act just like Christ . Thats the Christ in us part. 1 Pet 4:1 Then we have conformed to the Image of Christ Rom 8:29 And when we have done that then we are practicing Holiness and the end of that is everlasting life Rom 6:22 Thats the saving of once life or the finding once life part he spoke of. Its a figure of speech.

Rom. 8:10 And the Spirit is life because of righteousness Thats the part where because there is a lack of foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another ect disobedience /sin in ones life, looking, acting just like Christ 1 Pet 4:1 is the evidence that Gods Spirit is active( Spirit is Life part ) and working in our life.

So Rom 8:10 Is the only scripture here listed that really deals with losing ones life and finding it.

I fail to see what context you are referring to. I believe I see this context:
Phi . 1:20 according to my earnest expectation and hope, that in nothing shall I be put to shame, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether by life, or by death.

I believe you are incorrect. Verse 25 falls into this context:
Phi. 1:24 yet to abide in the flesh is more needful for your sake.

I believe this does not jive with the verse. It does not say that God accepts our dead nature simply because we repented but it says that the death has been removed ie made alive not just attributed as having life.

 

[Apologetics]

Apologetics,
In the Bible, the term, Hate, does not mean the same as it does today. The term meant to, love less than, whatever is mentioned.
We can easily understand this by what is said at Luke 14:26. Jesus surely did not mean that anyone should Hate his father or mother. What Jesus meant was, you should love anyone, less than him and his Father, God.

The Greek word used means to detest or disregard. Jesus used strong words sometimes to emphasize a specific point. Like eat my flesh or cut your hand off ect Like I mentioned in my post. In this particular passages Jesus is conveying to his follow the specific loyalty it takes to be a disciple. Example.

When a son or daughter came home after hearing Jesus teach in the synagogue,believing that he was from God the Messiah that Dan 9:24 spoke of. But had parents that thought he was a deceiver. When their parents commanded them not to listen too or follow Jesus ,they had to make a decision whether to respect their parents in the matter or be loyal to the truth and follow Jesus.

So in this situation for eternal salvation purposes. Jesus is conveying to detest/disregard/hate their parents advise/commands.
Loyalty to Christ supersedes ones loyalty to parents.

And so it is also to a Spouse or children or sibling. Nothing is to get between us and eternal life.

Thanks for reading the post

 

[Apologetics]

I believe that is news to me since I believe I understand things quite well.

I don't believe I have seen that in scripture anywhere. I would be most happy if a person receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior never sinned but that is not the reality.

I believe the Romans verse does not say that, also the Peter verse and the Luke verse. Your exegesis is not very good.

I believe your conclusions do not follow from your premises.

I believe you have misinterpreted Rom 8:13. There is no mention of eternal death and it can't even be derived from the verse.

Even if I sin I still continue in God's goodness, thank God.

You do have a misunderstanding. But its not your fault. Its because of what weve all have heard from others and general beliefs about salvation.

Example : You see some teach that man is a sinner ( and that is true all have sinned and come short of God's expectations) Rom 3:23 and always will be a sinner this side of the resurrection ( That's not true) even though they they have become followers of Jesus and have received the promised Spirit being born again.

But that would be contrary to :

1 Pet 4 1-2 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin.
That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God . Thats living without sin. Right

Once a sinner always a sinner also demonstrates that Jesus really cant change a person, your really not a new creature , just a little modified, for they teach that no one can stop sinning. If we have lived in sin before accepting Jesus and live in sin after accepting Jesus, then Jesus really doesn't make a difference.

Now Lets take this further.

They teach that the only way that man can be freed from his sinful nature is in the resurrection, God makes him sinless without the possibility of ever rebelling against God for eternity.

Now there is a huge problem with this teaching. First of all Jesus nor in any of the epistles is this doctrine taught.That God makes men sinless in the resurrection without the possibility of ever rebelling against God for eternity. Furthermore If one would just think a little deeper, hasn't that been done already. Did God not make all the angel sinless in the beginning. Was not Satan created sinless. Was not Adam and Eve created sinless. The Answer is a resounding yes. He made them sinless in the beginning. So did God make a mistake because Satan and the Angels rebelled against God. Was there a flaw in his creation. The Answer is a resounding NO.

So then we conclude that the doctrine of God making sinful man without a sinful nature in the resurrection without the possibility of ever rebelling against God for eternity.Is a flawed man made doctrine.For the angles and Satan and Adam and Eve all were created sinless but yet they rebelled. So we see that does not work.

For if God could do such a thing and we know all things are possible with God then God would have done that in the beginning and all this pain and sorry and war and death would have been avoided.

Now Since all things are possible with God he could very well have made all his creation completely compliant to all his desire and will avoiding any rebellion and disobedience for eternity. But to do that would be contrary to his plans .That is to prohibit free will. The decision to chose. That which makes us unique, individuals. You see to (prohibit free will) that kind of a creation is a robot. Robots are programmed.

They have no free will and are not living beings with a conscience to choose on their own. There choices are programmed. Autonomous robots are not really autonomous. You see a robot can't abort the program it was installed with. The program controls the robot not the robot controlling the program. Its autonomous to the degree it can follow the program on its own without any external assistance. Not free to do as they pleases but only within the parameters of its programming.. Now you might be saying. So what! at least there would be no pain and sorry and death, right .But the rebuttal to that lays right at the heart of God's will and plan and written word. You see

(1 Corinthians 2:9) says

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.( Free will, of once own choosing) And again

(Isaiah 66:3–4) invitation refused ( Free will of once own choosing)

, They have chosen thier own ways . And their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, And will bring their fears upon them; Because when I called, none did answer; When I spake, they did not hear: But they did evil before mine eyes, And chose that in which I delighted not.

You see God's expects a response from us from our own free will. He does not force his will on us.

Gods has eternity prepared for an exclusive group of individuals. Those that Love him. Thats free will. So God's word, His will, his plan for eternity, is for individuals that choose to love his ways, his laws and to do things that are pleasing in his sight of their own free will.Not programmed individuals .Not robots . Robots can't do that because they have no free will.

So what is the alternative. How then can sinful man ever attain to a place in his behavior in such a way so as to guarantee that in eternity another Satan wont pop up, with free will ,never be possible to rebel against God's righteous laws and not be a robot.Dan 9:24 speaks of everlasting righteousness or as Peter put it

(2 Peter 3:13)

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

How is that going to happen

Well its a lengthy doctrine and I touched on it a little in my post. But It starts in Gen 4:7 God tells Cain he must master sin and ends in Rev 2:7 To him that overcomes will I give to eat of the tree of life.

You see eternal Life is exclusively to those who have overcome arrogance .pride,adultery of the heart, Idolatry ect. Called sin.