What does it mean to be an Atheist ( not a mocking thread)

[Valjean]

The modifiers change the meaning, what arent you getting about this?

Is a 'agnostic theist', an atheist?

Just answer that.

Of course they change the meaning! That's what they're for! But they don't change the definition of the word being modified. They don't modify the essential feature common to all members of the class, eg: the definition.

 

[Desert Snake]

Of course they change the meaning! That's what they're for! But they don't change the definition of the word being modified. They don't modify the essential feature common to all members of the class, eg: the definition.

'Agnostic theist', by your definitions is different. If it isn't, it's a contradiction, or, makes theism, vague.

 

[Valjean]

Your definition of agnostic changes when you combine it with your definition of theism.

You're trying to juggle a fruit basket instead of just having three main beliefs,

An agnosic as one who denies the possibility of determining the reality of god, or an agnostic as one who doesn't know?

I'm agnostic in the latter sense, but I'm also atheist. Not knowing and not believing aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, not believing in something one doesn't know to exist seems very reasonable.

 

[Valjean]

'Agnostic theist', by your definitions is different. If it isn't, it's a contradiction, or, makes theism, vague.

OK, not quite following... Explain?
Are we talking about theism, now?

 

[Valjean]

OK, not quite following... Explain?
Are we talking about theism, now?

... and I think you're trying to befuddle me by changing your avatar. You're a tricky one, I think...

 

[Desert Snake]

OK, not quite following... Explain?
Are we talking about theism, now?

You are if you say 'agnostic theism'. That isn't atheism, presumably?

 

[Valjean]

You are if you say 'agnostic theism'. That isn't atheism, presumably?

Sorry, you lost me.
Link, por favor?

 

[Valjean]

You're trying to make beliefs and claims into non beliefs and claims, it just doesn't work.

??? -- How so?

Change the dictionary definitions, its never going to work, it's an unworkable concept.

I'm not changing dictionary definitions. I'm proposing a simple, workable definition that answers current needs; a definition agreeable to the American Atheists organization.

Meanings of words change over time. That's what makes Chaucer hard to comprehend. My definition is simple, up-to-date and very workable. What essential feature do you propose as definitive?

 

[Desert Snake]

??? -- How so?

I'm not changing dictionary definitions. I'm proposing a simple, workable definition that answers current needs; a definition agreeable to the American Atheists organization.

Meanings of words change over time. That's what makes Chaucer hard to comprehend. My definition is simple, up-to-date and very workable. What essential feature do you propose as definitive?

Im not concerned about it. It's your label, presumably, so make it unclear, or clear, whatever.

 

[PureX]

Personal truth being personal truth, a distinction there concerning belief, isn't inherent.

Belief can be evidenced, or not, and that concept can vary.

Evidence is still a subjective determination. There is no logical pathway to "objective truth".

 

[Desert Snake]

Evidence is still a subjective determination. There is no logical pathway to "objective truth".

You are calling that an 'act of faith'? How about not calling my beliefs, an 'act of faith'? Just call everything subjective, without your delineation. Not complicated.

 

[PureX]

You are calling that an 'act of faith'? How about not calling my beliefs, an 'act of faith'? Just call everything subjective, without your delineation. Not complicated.

We are all trusting in our minimal and subjective grasp of reality to be "the truth". That is an act of faith, sorry.

 

[Desert Snake]

We are all trusting in our minimal and subjective grasp of reality to be "the truth". That is an act of faith, sorry.

You aren't using the words to a useful meaning. So, everything you believe is an 'act of faith', ok, great.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You aren't using the words to a useful meaning. So, everything you believe is an 'act of faith', ok, great.

@Desert Snake How would you describe faith or beliefs? I seen you are good in doing critique of others way of understanding things, but it would be good to hear your full version of what you understand of faith and belief No harm ment in my post, just curious

 

[Spirit of Light]

No, you have a 'pre'set idea, of things, not my interest to change those ideas.

Im good at critiquing because I know a lot. Its like, "being good at something", in other words, i might know more than you about certain things, no matter how much you study.

So, your 'perception', here is messed up, in the first place. Not interested in changing your beliefs.

I dont think you answered my question But you made me more sure that you maybe pretend to know more then you say because you make critique of others, but mostly never say anything about what You belive or understand

 

[Desert Snake]

I dont think you answered my question But you made me more sure that you maybe pretend to know more then you say because you make critique of others, but mostly never say anything about what You belive or understand

So, are you going to read back in the thread, where I describe what belief is,

How it is evidenced, or not evidenced, so forth, or not? Or just make up a fake reality, to match your fake religion that isnt doing anything for you?

 

[Desert Snake]

I dont think you answered my question But you made me more sure that you maybe pretend to know more then you say because you make critique of others, but mostly never say anything about what You belive or understand

You are truly pathetic.

I have many, perhaps the most, discussions that go into detail, what faith, belief, mean, how they are subjective, how they are considered in traditional religion, what a believer means, so forth.

You lie because you cant find truth. What a waste to consider discussing anything with you.

 

[Desert Snake]

So an 'objective truth', that you are unaware of, isn't truth? Or I should present that as 'entirely subjective'? That makes everything subjective.

•
A belief, can be evidenced, or not.

Evidenced beliefs are subjective, in many ways. Traditionally, a religious belief without evidence, isn't considered as worse than a religious belief, with evidence.
•
Ideally, one professing a religion or such is going to use their faith and logic to figure out what might be true, or not, in what way, so forth. So, the religious are "responsible" to arrive at the correct beliefs.[within reason

Theist =there is a god or gods, [broadest definitions of godlike beings

Agnostic =don't know

Atheist=there are no gods [broadest definition godlike beings so forth

•

Only definitions that work.

You are saying the same thing, in a more vague manner.

So, you are vague, here "lack of belief", huh?

No, you mean, "there are no gods", otherwise we're asking, what does belief mean etc.

It isn't definitive at all, and '>i dont know', isn't the same as 'there isn't'.

You'll note that there are essentially three beliefs, here.

• belief there is a god or gods, [broadest definition

• 'i don't know',

• 'there are no gods',

▪▪▪
every belief, is one of these. In order to have non vague way of describing these, you don't put two beliefs, in the same category.

Link didnt go, then Im going to expect every atheist to give a detailed description of what atheism means when they say it

• you arent understanding that one word, if used as one word, either has an inherent meaning, or it doesnt.

So you can either provide a 'definition' for atheism, or you cant

•

So again, atheism to have an inherent meaning, as a word, cannot have more than one meaning, THAT ARE DIFFERENT MEANINGS.

Those arent varieties of atheism, its

Theism

Agnostic

Atheism


• there are many many types of theism, so what

Personal truth being personal truth, a distinction there concerning belief, isn't inherent.

Belief can be evidenced, or not, and that concept can vary.

No, ''i dont know', isn't 'there aren't'.

It isn't even close.

So, you again have an vague meaning.
That's the problem with going outside of a 'belief', it doesn't work.

Then the 'i don't know ' loses meaning, as it becomes, 'i dont know therefore lack of [belief , claim, making no agnostic theism, which is fine, however you wont agree.

You don't like that we're talking about claims, basically

You're trying to make beliefs and claims into non beliefs and claims, it just doesn't work.

Change the dictionary definitions, its never going to work, it's an unworkable concept.

The modifiers change the meaning, what arent you getting about this?

Is a 'agnostic theist', an atheist?

Just answer that.

Your definition of agnostic changes when you combine it with your definition of theism.

You're trying to juggle a fruit basket instead of just having three main beliefs,

'Agnostic theist', by your definitions is different. If it isn't, it's a contradiction, or, makes theism, vague.

You are if you say 'agnostic theism'. That isn't atheism, presumably?

All of these comments are before this liar says I never explain my beliefs etc

@Desert Snake How would you describe faith or beliefs? I seen you are good in doing critique of others way of understanding things, but it would be good to hear your full version of what you understand of faith and belief No harm ment in my post, just curious

Pathetic.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So, are you going to read back in the thread, where I describe what belief is,

How it is evidenced, or not evidenced, so forth, or not? Or just make up a fake reality, to match your fake religion that isnt doing anything for you?

iIf i am wrong about your way of describing your beliefs and views i will of course go back to read more of your posts. As i said i did not say this to hurt you or offend you. But to me you often come across as a person who mostly critique those who have a belief or religion.
If i am wrong i will delete my previous post

 

[Spirit of Light]

To the Mods, If i crossed the line of forum rules please delete my previous posts in this thread.