exchemist
Veteran Member
So why then did St James quote this story, do you think? Or was St James evil, in your opinion?
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In Jewish tradition, Joshua married her.
If you say so.
I just realized that this thread is in Interfaith Discussion where debate isn't allowed); I had assumed it was in Scriptural Debates. Short version: I won't be debating this any more.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Good for him!
In Christian tradition, St Mary Magdalene was also said to have been a woman of easy virtue, at least.
P.S. But this is apparently due to Pope Gregory the Great getting his wires crossed, confusing her with Mary of Bethany - I've just found out
. But she has since been depicted as a flame-haired temptress in a lot of European art - and we've all got a soft spot for the "tart with a heart of gold", I think.
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Um, there are religions other than Christianity.
Teritos
Active Member
She married Salmon. She is also one of the ancestors of Jesus.
But this does not change the fact that the works of her and Abraham were evil from the Torah's point of view.
Teritos
Active Member
I did, the whole OT.
Have you read the Torah?
exchemist
Veteran Member
I see no need to start bringing fish into this.
Teritos
Active Member
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 3:28
For we judge that a man is justified by faith without works of law.
Works of faith are not good works which conform to the law, works of faith can even contradict the law.
Grace through faith is a gift, you don't work for it.
For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 3:28
For we judge that a man is justified by faith without works of law.
Works of faith are not good works which conform to the law, works of faith can even contradict the law.
Grace through faith is a gift, you don't work for it.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Haha, it's always fun to tweak the tail of a Hot Prot, and you really did walk into that one.
But this whole thing is off the topic of the OP of course.
Teritos
Active Member
I am sure you also see the work of Abraham as evil. But why is it called a work? Because it was done out of faithfulness. God came to Abraham, and required of him to sacrifice his son. Abraham remained faithful to God and believed the word of God, he took his son and was about to slaughter his own son because he loved God so much. And this act justified him. God was very emotional that he even swore by himself to bless him very for this work, for who would sacrifice his own son because some voice would command him to do so? Therefore it is a work of faith. Not a good work. Because a good work would not contradict the law, which says: You shall not kill.
Teritos
Active Member
Romans 4:1-5
What shall we now say that Abraham, our father according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about - but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "But Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." But to him who does works, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. But to him who does not do works, but believes on him that justifies the wicked, his faith is reckoned unto righteousness.
What shall we now say that Abraham, our father according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about - but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "But Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." But to him who does works, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. But to him who does not do works, but believes on him that justifies the wicked, his faith is reckoned unto righteousness.
OP the Hebrew word echad(English one) means one a single or it can mean a compound unity. It is an overloaded term. The meaning is context determined. However in the context of Deuteronomy 6 it is not a compound unity. It refers to a single individual. That is the short answer.
I understand how badly Christians want to read its Jesus and its Trinity back onto the Jewish Torah and Scriptures. But that doesn’t make it true.
I will not comment on the text from James. I’ll leave that for you Christians to interpret.
I understand how badly Christians want to read its Jesus and its Trinity back onto the Jewish Torah and Scriptures. But that doesn’t make it true.
I will not comment on the text from James. I’ll leave that for you Christians to interpret.
An excellent question.
When Deuteronomy was written, the Jews were henotheists, recognizing that other gods existed (eg Exodus 15:11, 20:3, Deuteronomy 5:7, Numbers 33:4, Judges 11;23-24, Psalms 82:1, 86:8, 95:3, 135:5 ─ Judges is particularly clear).
So I'm guessing when I say it's an assertion that means something like, Our God is No. 1.
By the time we get to the NT, Yahweh has become, in Jewish terms, the only god. Thus in the NT in Mark 12 we find ─
29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [...]
32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
where it clearly means Yahweh is the only God.32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
(It's also an example of Jesus saying explicitly that he's not God. There's no support for Trinitarianism anywhere in the bible, the NT included.)
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
"I AM THAT AM"
The more I study scripture, the more it indicates that God is literally the sum of all that exists.
Whether one believes in God or not, it can be said that there is only one thing which exists overall -which would be true even if it could be infinitely subdivided.
Or... Everything = 1
(We tend to think of greater numbers of things as "more" -but the greater the number, the more fractions of the one overall thing it represents.)
"Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come"
The one thing which exists -and "always" has -is dynamic -it develops -it has become that which now exists. It is the same thing, but in a different overall configuration. Even the act of creating new things indicates development.
"At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you."
If God is literally the sum of all that exists, then all that has been created is by logical separation and arrangement of "God". God creates from that which he is. If "more" is created, the it is by increasing the number of divisions of the "one" thing. It is possible that the basic nature of that which exists allows it it be infinitely subdivided.
We "individuals" would literally be a part of God.
Christ is called "the firstborn of many brethren" -so Christ may essentially be the first self-replication of the Father/the most high God -and ourselves continued self-replication -the "children of God".
Atheists might say "imaginary" Gods, which adds complexity.