What does Socialism Add to the Economy?

[PureX]

You jokin' right? You can't be suggesting a hundred years ago when they had no Union representation, Sweat Shops for children, people forced to work dangerous working conditions, that there was less power and control over employees than today! C'mon you know better than that.

And just look how hard the capitalists are fighting to return us to that predicament. Their greed and malevolence never rests. And the more they use their wealth to corrupt the government, the more damage they will do to everyone else as a result.

Why should ANY sane society allow this kind of insatiable malignancy to continue??? Why are you so keen to defend it? Why can't you even try to imagine a better alternative?

The government gives the poor more benefits than they pay in taxes.

The government does exactly what their oligarch sponsors tell them to do. So why aren't you asking yourself why the oligarchs want to make us pay people not to work?

Anybody with the ability to calculate the cost of K thru 12 education, the cost of food stamps, the cost of section 8 housing, along with all the other benefits, and subtract that number from the amount they pay in taxes can decide by looking at the numbers.

Again, you stay focused on exactly what the oligarchs want you to stay focused on, while you ignore the bigger picture. Why?

Absurd! How does people NOT working serve capitalist greed?

It keeps everyone that does work's wages low by maintaining a constant threat of competition. And it keeps them all poor and hungry by making them pay for all those non-workers benefits. It also gives them someone to focus their resentment on besides the oligarchs that are actually manipulating and exploiting them.

Capitalists want everybody to work so they can buy their products! You've got this backwards.

Capitalists don't care about who buys anyone else's products. They only care about people buying theirs. And they couldn't care less about anyone that doesn't have the money. Greed is very narrow-minded and very short-sighted. It's like a parasite that will eat it's host even though that will eventually kill the parasite, itself.

Didn't you just say Capitalists don't want people working? Which is it? They don't want people working? Or they want more laborers willing to work than the job market can employ?

Stop being stupid, please. They want both, because that's what serves their greed best. And they want us blaming the government, and each other, instead of them. Just as you are doing.

Whaaattt??? Now you really trippin!!! Name a capitalist who is in the business of hiring people to sit around and do NOTHING!

That's not what I posted. Stop being deliberately stupid, please.

What you talkin' about Willis??? The guy hired to sit around and do nothing has the best job in the world! He should be thankful for his predicament.

Only blinding greed would make one think so.

 

[Kfox]

And just look how hard the capitalists are fighting to return us to that predicament. Their greed and malevolence never rests.

Humm…… At first you said due to modern technology, capitalists have never had the amount of power and control that they wield today, now after being pressed, you say they want to return to the days of old where they had more power and control. Sounds like you’re agreeing with me that it isn’t as bad as it used to be.

And the more they use their wealth to corrupt the government, the more damage they will do to everyone else as a result.

There are laws in place to prevent that from happening.

Why should ANY sane society allow this kind of insatiable malignancy to continue??? Why are you so keen to defend it? Why can't you even try to imagine a better alternative?

Socialism is not a better alternative.

The government does exactly what their oligarch sponsors tell them to do. So why aren't you asking yourself why the oligarchs want to make us pay people not to work?

Welfare and unemployment benefits is not paying people not to work, it’s paying people who can’t work or haven’t found a job yet

Again, you stay focused on exactly what the oligarchs want you to stay focused on, while you ignore the bigger picture. Why?

No; you asked who decides the value of one’s contribution, and I’ve answered your question. Now you trying to bring up the boogie man (oligarchs)

It keeps everyone that does work's wages low by maintaining a constant threat of competition. And it keeps them all poor and hungry by making them pay for all those non-workers benefits.

Unemployment benefits are not an example of paying people not to work, it’s an example of people contributing to a system where if or when they lose their job, they will still have income while they look for other work

Capitalists don't care about who buys anyone else's products. They only care about people buying theirs.

That’s what I said! Capitalists want everyone to work so they can afford to buy their products! Sounds like you are agreeing with me again.

Stop being stupid, please. They want both, because that's what serves their greed best. And they want us blaming the government, and each other, instead of them. Just as you are doing.

People without jobs is the result of not enough capitalists; not too many of them.

 

[metis]

Welfare and unemployment benefits is not paying people not to work, it’s paying people who can’t work or haven’t found a job yet

And when they get these benefits, they spend the money that supports business and finance. IOW, the money doesn't miraculously disappear.

And the irony is the poor actually spend a higher percent of their income locally, which is where you get the biggest bang for your buck because of the "multiplier effect" at that level.

 

[metis]

People without jobs is the result of not enough capitalists; not too many of them.

Laissez-fair capitalism has been proven to be so unstable and merciless that no country in the world today uses it.

 

[Kfox]

And when they get these benefits, they spend the money that supports business and finance. IOW, the money doesn't miraculously disappear.

But it’s like spending a dollar in order to make ten cents. The amount they pay in taxes for the products they purchase, and the amount of profit the business make from the food they buy in no way makes up for the amount of tax payer dollars required for them to buy those products and pay those taxes.

And the irony is the poor actually spend a higher percent of their income locally, which is where you get the biggest bang for your buck because of the "multiplier effect" at that level.

But they are still spending far far more than they are contributing.

Laissez-fair capitalism has been proven to be so unstable and merciless that no country in the world today uses it.

When it comes to economic systems, what most people incorrectly call capitalist societies are actually something else like a market society or mixed society; (the USA is actually a market economic system, even though people call it capitalist) but I don’t think there are any purely capitalist societies around. But what I was talking about when I said capitalist, I was referring to specific people who use capitalism to make money.

 

[wellwisher]

The single largest deficit created in U.S. history was Trump's massive tax cut that went mostly to the well-healed and they were not and are not paid for.

That Trump tax cut gave tax payers back their own tax money, that had paid. That is different from a freebie. Fair share means no freebies without some collateral value giving back.

When those tax cuts were given, Trump also wanted to cut government so there would be less impact. The Democrats did not what to down side government, and cut back on the freebies including corporate welfare; Green energy. The corporate freebie caused inflation.

The Constitutional the role of the Federal Government is to provide for the common defense and promote the General Welfare. Provide and promote are two different words and actions. Provide means give resource; tax payer money.

The debt is not due to the military since that is to be provided for. The debt is due to illegally providing and instead of promoting the general welfare. Promoting has a positive effect but is not a money pit.

 

[metis]

But they are still spending far far more than they are contributing.

Again, you're ignoring the "multiplier effect" whereas one dollar in circulation buys many things. Economics 101

 

[metis]

That Trump tax cut gave tax payers back their own tax money, that had paid. That is different from a freebie. Fair share means no freebies without some collateral value giving back.

Complete unadulterated nonsense as the vast majority of the tax breaks benefitted the well-healed and was unpaid for because of no significant cuts with other expenditures.

Maybe it's time you got off the right-wing teat.

 

[Kathryn]

Tell that to the millions of people in the U.S. who don't have any healthcare insurance or insurance that's inadequate.

Thank goodness the uninsured rate is dropping and continues to drop.

 

[metis]

Thank goodness the uninsured rate is dropping and continues to drop.

Thanks in large part to the ACA and reduced unemployment. However, as you well know, there are still all too many Americans who do not have adequate medical coverage, which is something that is quite fixable.

 

[Kfox]

Again, you're ignoring the "multiplier effect" whereas one dollar in circulation buys many things. Economics 101

No; because when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you are taking Peter's dollar out of circulation to give to Paul and then boasting Paul is gonna put that dollar back into circulation. Actually by the time that dollar gets to Paul, it's more like ten cents.

 

[Kfox]

Complete unadulterated nonsense as the vast majority of the tax breaks benefitted the well-healed and was unpaid for because of no significant cuts with other expenditures.

Maybe it's time you got off the right-wing teat.

He made the point that the tax cuts gave the money back to the people who paid it; thus no freebie, and you responded that because most of those tax cuts went to the rich, it doesn't count, and was not paid back. Just because most of it went back to the rich and wasn't paid back doesn't take away from his argument, it still went back to the people who paid it, and was not a freebie. IOW nothing you said refutes what he said.

 

[Revoltingest]

Again, you're ignoring the "multiplier effect" whereas one dollar in circulation buys many things. Economics 101

Liberals often talk about the "multiplier effect"
as a benefit of a massive tax-&-spend policy.
What they fail to see is that it's based upon
taking money from taxpayers. So the money
put into circulation by government is money
taken out of circulation from taxpayers, who'd
also have had a "multiplier effect", had they
been able to keep that money.

Instead of believing that tax-&-spend is
inherently an economic booster, they should
focus upon the spending being more
beneficial than its cost.

 

[metis]

No; because when you rob Peter to pay Paul, you are taking Peter's dollar out of circulation to give to Paul and then boasting Paul is gonna put that dollar back into circulation. Actually by the time that dollar gets to Paul, it's more like ten cents.

That's under the false assumption that millionaire Peter will spend the exact same amount as poor "Paul" whereas even common sense suggest that's unlikely.

Secondly, there's the factor of helping those in need, which too many on the right couldn't care less about.

 

[metis]

He made the point that the tax cuts gave the money back to the people who paid it; thus no freebie, and you responded that because most of those tax cuts went to the rich, it doesn't count, and was not paid back. Just because most of it went back to the rich and wasn't paid back doesn't take away from his argument, it still went back to the people who paid it, and was not a freebie. IOW nothing you said refutes what he said.

LOL! It is common knowledge that Trump ramped up the deficit more than any previous president & congress in American history. Fact-checking Trump on tax cuts, jobs and inflation

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

 

[wellwisher]

LOL! It is common knowledge that Trump ramped up the deficit more than any previous president & congress in American history. Fact-checking Trump on tax cuts, jobs and inflation

Donald Trump Built a National Debt So Big (Even Before the Pandemic) That It’ll Weigh Down the Economy for Years

The “King of Debt” promised to reduce the national debt — then his tax cuts made it surge. Add in the pandemic, and he oversaw the third-biggest deficit increase of any president.

www.propublica.org

After the Trump tax cuts, which the Biden Administration maintained, the total USA tax revenues increased each year since 2016. Although it went down in 2022, under Biden Harris.

The link appears to be from a Left leaning publication. It show the tax revue going up until 2022 and then down. The authors blames that on the Trump tax cut, as though it took 6 years to suddenly decrease revenues? That decline was due to Biden-Harris and the Green cooperate welfare which is created negative revenue. Green had extra Biden tax breaks, equal less revenue. This was not giving Green back taxes it previously earned but was unearned tax breaks. The data though is sound and shows tax cuts add to the revenue. Unearned tax breaks do the opposite.
U.S. Federal Government Tax Revenue

The reason this is the case is Goverment debt and interest on the debt currently means each tax dollar depreciates by 22%. The interest on the debt is close to a $trillion. If this money is left in the economy, it will get a positive rate of return. The Government never had a revenue problem, since the economy made up for that. It has a spending problem. Government spending caused inflation, which then lowered everyone's revenue in real dollars. Whatever tax break Trump ,gave to the middle class, was gobbled up by Biden and Harris via overspending inflation.

Government and all the agencies do not wish to downside but it needs to happen.

 

[Altfish]

?

Compassion for the under privileged

 

[Nakosis]

Compassion for the under privileged

So, you need socialism to feel compassion for the under privileged?

 

[metis]

After the Trump tax cuts, which the Biden Administration maintained, the total USA tax revenues increased each year since 2016. Although it went down in 2022, under Biden Harris.

The link appears to be from a Left leaning publication.

Neither is "Left leaning", and if you actually researched it you might actually realize how wrong you are as it has won Pulitzer Prizes on more then one occasion.

So, instead of assuming something, maybe actually look it up. Here, since you don't seem to care enough to do that, here: ProPublica - Wikipedia

 

[Kfox]

That's under the false assumption that millionaire Peter will spend the exact same amount as poor "Paul" whereas even common sense suggest that's unlikely.

First of all, not everybody who pays taxes are millionaires; however, for those “Peters”that are, Peter is more likely to circulate his money by investing in business where as Paul is more likely to circulate the money by being a customer to business. Investing in a business is a lot more beneficial to that business than being a customer because the business only sees ten cents on the dollar when someone buys its products, where as the business gets the whole dollar when it is invested.