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What does the fossil record say?
- Thread starter Youtellme
- Start date
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
He stated a hypothesis in the actual paper, not the "Abstract" you presented here. His paper directed the reader to other ID proponents...but in his paper for his hypothesis he never backed up his assertion with any testable data. So, again, while this was peer reviewed in an obscure journal (i.e. a textbook publishing house started back in 2005) instead of being published in (AAAS - The World's Largest General Scientific Society or Nature Publishing Group : science journals, jobs, and information ) it remains an opinion. In his closing he cites Behe on (irreducible complexity) another one of those debunked hypotheses.
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meogi
Well-Known Member
? What does any of that have to do with the circular reasoning I was pointing out? It does amuse me that you have a bag of tricks you seem to randomly pull out of.wilsoncole said:
You can't assume something and then prove it. That's part of assumption, it's already true. We disagree on the assumption that there is an artist.
me said:
Then why do animals die?wilsoncole said:
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
No one's trying the break you....don't flatter yourself. This is simply a debate forum. I lose no sleep over the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.
No...It's been focused on you and your creation narrative. This is self evident from the many biblical passages you've been presenting here.
And this is irrelevant to the thread topic.
They're irrelevant to the thread topic.
Actually Hinduism and Buddhism. are older than Christianity.
It's an irrelevant thread question......Why do you keep confusing biology with philosophy and sociology...
It depends on what you deem important. To some religious people it isn't. To those who want an understanding on the diversity of species on this planet it is.
What religion would that be?
Are you now moving the goal post? Are you now saying life CAN come from non-life but it has to be "aided"....or are you adamant that life can (only) come from life (period)?
Are you serious? Do you mean to tell me that anthropology has nothing to do with fossils? Are you serious that Dentistry can not tell us anything as to who we are as a species? Are you serious that Osteology (the study of bones) can not tell us about bones?.....
Did you understand the response? Paleontology, Anthropology as well as Biology have everything to do with this thread. You are involved in a thread where these sciences are used in connection with the fossil record. Your bible creation narrative is out of sync with what we know of the natural world, the fossil record and the diversity of species on this planet. You are the target because you choose to be involved. Your bible is the target because that is the information of choice you base your life and understanding off.
You have no understanding of Evolution which is why you ask silly questions such as this. This is common amongst creationist even after being told over and over that the ToE never ever suggest such an event.
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camanintx
Well-Known Member
Does your house have a slab foundation or a crawlspace? Does either type prevent you from building a second or even third story? Again, you need to put more thought into your analogies.
wilsoncole
Active Member
This is false information. He did it in his work and reported extensively on it. See below.
It is not up to you to decide where a person gets his work published.
You are unable to show me where or when his paper has been rejected by the "scientific community."
Let me see you prove that.
The ToE has you all messed up.
1. You are unable to get past your prejudices.
2. You exhibit a marked hatred for a man named Behe, a person you do not even know. How do I know? You NEVER say anything nice about him.
3. You summarily dismiss any information that disagrees with the ToE.
4. You demonstrate a religious fervor for the ToE, a fervor that could drive you to violence.
5. You seem to be at war with God and Lonnig.
You are in for a terrible shock.
Which "paper" are you talking about? He has a lot of peer-reviewed papers.
Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig Literaturverzeichnis
Never backed up what "assertion?"
No testable data?
If this is the paper you're referring to, read carefully:
"(2) In biology the term “law” is often interchangeably used with the label “rule”, as in the case of the Mendelian “rules” or “laws”. Strictly speaking, a law makes testable predictions on the basis of a set of preconditions and does not permit any exceptions from its deductions. Since so far I do not know of any valid exceptions of this principle for induced and spontaneous random mutations as deduced above, I presently prefer to speak of the “law” of recurrent variation sensu stricto (researchers should, perhaps, constantly remind themselves that not only mutation breeding but also any expectations to artificially ‘speed up evolution’ (Muller) by mutations in the wild largely failed because of this law)."
http://www.weloennig.de/Loennig-Long-Version-of-Law-of-Recurrent-Variation.pdf
You'd better read his work all over again.
BTW:
What is "Dollo's Law?"
And Vavilov’s "Law of Homologous Series in Variation?"
How have these "laws" been dealt with in the "scientific community?"
Consider:
"How is it possible that cases of insufficient or even false evidence for natural selection can be bolstered and presented in such a way that it appears to be so convincing and entirely compelling that even the best minds of the world can be grossly misled - even to the point of modifying a published evaluation on this topic?"
(Wolf-Ekkehard Lönnig)
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Wilson
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wilsoncole
Active Member
wilsoncole
Active Member
Evolution should have told you.
Man was made to live forever. His continued existence depended on his taking directions from his maker. He rebelled and had to pay the penalty of death.
Animals were not made to live forever. They were not given any conditions under which to continue living.
Obedient men will once again be allowed to live forever, right here on earth.
And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it. (Psalm 37:10-11,29)
He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it]. (Isaiah 25:8)
And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.. . . (Revelation 21:4)
Well - you asked.
You don't believe - your loss.
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Wilson
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Show us what on earth it has to do with this thread.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Yup, there's no such thing--just as the Theory of Evolution predicts. Once again you have verified ToE...because you have no idea what it says. Any interest in learning?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Do you agree with him that punctuated equilibrium better describes how species evolve?
Because you would never just twist his words to mean something entirely different, would you? That would be lying.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
In that case your assertion makes no sense. No lineage, no need for transitional species.
No, not at all. Do you have the intelligence to know what empirical evidence is? Do you have the intelligence to recognize empirical evidence when you see it? It doesn’t seem like it, as you can’t distinguish between fiction and fact. Luckily other people are intelligent enough to do that. So much so that 99.9% of all trained scientists accepted Darwin’s theory after studying that evidence.
Why do you keep on quoting from Superman then?
According to your book Superman “predicted” something similar more than 2000 years ago. Something about it happening before the end of that generation. Hasn’t happened yet. Don’t believe Superman. It’s only fiction.
Another quote from Superman. I don’t believe fiction anymore, I’ve actually grown-up.
Keep on doing it. You show the whole world how irrational your religion is.
You should read a bit wider. You might learn a lot more. Superman is only fiction and is of no value to the world outside, except for entertaining children.
waitasec
Veteran Member
camanintx
Well-Known Member
Or analogies.
I don't know, as Superman never scared me when I was a child.or scaring them...
During that time I was indoctrinated to "believe" in Jesus and I was really scared by the prospect of hell. What a relief it was to start thinking and realising that the hell contradicts the other beliefs I was forced to believe. Eventually reality liberated me from all those silly beliefs and scare tactics. My realisation that Superman comes from exactly the same sources (the brains of humans) as Jesus and Thor and Allah and fairies and Santa Claus opened the world to me. Scare tactics didn't work on me anymore after that. I'm not scared of threads about ghosts going to get me eventually (even after death). Liberation! Freedom!
Now I can just enjoy human creativity.
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wilsoncole
Active Member
I have a feeling that you lose sleep over the fact that I won't fall for your evolution junk.
First, you targeted me and found that I am not so easily broken. Your latest attack is now focused on the Bible and you lie about it.
Yet, it has outlasted all other forms of knowledge or schools of learning and will continue to do so. It also contains the answers to all the situations mentioned above and has been the source of comfort to millions of people the world over.
So - you think the Bible = Christianity? Buddah lived about 600 B.C.E. Moses wrote 900 years before that and we still read and study his writings today.
The oldest known Hindu writings date back to the 4th century B.C.E
Life only comes from life. Clear enough?
You think I don't know that?
If a person is going to lie, he should have a perfect memory.
You seem to forget what you wrote above: "No one's trying the break you....don't flatter yourself." Why, else would you "target" me and the Bible?
So, now its finally out in the open. Your real life's mission is to destroy the faith of believers by planting the seeds of doubt and by filling their minds with so-called "scientific enlightenment." That's precisely what I said and you denied it.
First you targeted me, and now, the Bible, my source of lasting strength. You will not win. It has served to keep me and my associates safe, totally apart from a world alienated from God.
The Bible cannot be destroyed. It is God's word to his loyal followers.
Well - fire away. People like me have long withstood everything you could throw at us and will continue to do so. Know why? We have protection. If you don't believe me, keep coming. Like David:
In turn David said to the Phi‧lis′tine: You are coming to me with a sword and with a spear and with a javelin, but I am coming to you with the name of Jehovah of armies, the God of the battle lines of Israel, whom you have taunted. (1 Samuel 17:45)
We have this assurance:
Any weapon whatever that will be formed against you will have no success, and any tongue at all that will rise up against you in the judgment you will condemn. This is the hereditary possession of the servants of Jehovah, and their righteousness is from me, is the utterance of Jehovah. (Isaiah 54:17) You and your attacks will vanish and we will be still standing tall.
Hitler swore to exterminate us as did the Russian government. They failed.
What you know of the natural world does not equip you to deal wisely with it. You and your technology are destroying it. It is YOU who must be stopped at all costs or you will manage to stop all life on earth.
Still - you are unable to tell me the origin of life - the life that gave existence to those holy fossils of yours. Evolution falls flat on that vital question.
The bible tells me everything I need to know in order to live a quiet life of love for fellow men and in peace with all kinds of people.
Evolution cannot accomplish that. And your holy fossils haven't got a clue.
Oh I understand evolution very well. I will never accept nor believe it.
The question was meant to be a joke, m*ke.
Dogs CANNOT give birth to chickens. They are of different kinds.
Apes CANNOT become humans, no matter how many times you say it. See:
Access : Chimpanzee and human Y chromosomes are remarkably divergent in structure and gene content : Nature
The Bible points out that the flesh of the various kinds of living things differs.
Not all flesh is the same flesh, but there is one of mankind, and there is another flesh of cattle, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. (1 Corinthians 15:39)
This has been found to be the case by researchers; they have noted that the chemical composition and cellular structure of the flesh of mankind, beasts, birds, and fish vary greatly. This situation CANNOT be changed.
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Wilson
wilsoncole
Active Member
So you choose to contend with God and his followers.
Consider:
For a fact I do know that it is so. But how can mortal man be in the right in a case with God? If he should find delight in contending with him, He cannot answer him once out of a thousand. He is wise in heart and strong in power. Who can show stubbornness to him and come off uninjured? (Job 9:2-4)
You will end up all scratched up.
I am going to have to tell you about "Foursquare."
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Wilson
wilsoncole
Active Member
Mr. Krok,
Those are the lies of Christendom.
None of it is scriptural truth.
No wonder you've lost your sense of direction.
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Wilson
Yes, I know. This sect of Christendom rejects that sect of Christendom who rejects the next sect of Christendom, who rejects the next and next sects of Christendom, more than 30 000 of them in a row. I was raised in one of them, remember? Catholics and Jehovas and Seventh Day Adventists and Anglicans and whatever are going directly to hell, no pause involved.
Apparantly not. You are the only one who's got the magic decoder ring and understands it all perfectly. I don't understand anything about it.
I've actually got great direction. My life is going extremely well, my career is also going extremely well (I plan to retire in a year or two fishing the warm Indian Ocean from my stoep (verandah) with my wife,of nearly 26 years, by my side. That's my heaven. I'm turning 47 this month. My wife is a Chemist, blonde, beautiful, skinny, (and way more intelligent than me, psst, don't ever tell her I said that). My children left the house, well educated, in a wonderful country, with great careers ahead of them. I've never lost any sense of direction. Life is so agreeable to me, heaven can't ever be better. (If I have to play the harp over there for all eternity, now that would really suck).
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