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What does the fossil record say?

who observed the spontaneous generation of life?

Who observed the events alleged in Genesis?

What are the ingredients?

Carbon mostly, interestingly the element most likely to form living systems (silicon being the second most likely just statistically)

Who put the ingredients together in such a comprehensive manner?

Who put the ingredients together to create the 'who' who put life together? Surely if life couldn't have come about without an intelligent creator then said creator, being even more awesomely complex, required its own intelligent creator.

Was abiogenesis happening when was it observed?

Who observed the events alleged in Genesis?

Exactly how long ago was that?

Around 3.8 billion years ago. When was Eden?

Was it recorded by anyone?

Who observed the events alleged in Genesis? Whoever recorded it surely couldn't have been there, at least not before the 5th day.

Can you quote me one prominent biologist who agrees with you?

All of them - let's see you name one prominent biologist who doesn't

What makes you think that the appearance of a fossil tells you how that fossil came to be what it is and where it is?

The fossil came to be because the species it belonged to existed (duh) what it is is a fossil and species are classifiable (because all of them are related) and you actually are asking where the fossil is? Isn't it where we find it?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Are you for real? Since you are bold enough to argue to the contrary, tell me - who observed the spontaneous generation of life?
What are the ingredients?
Who put the ingredients together in such a comprehensive manner?
Was abiogenesis happening when was it observed?
Exactly how long ago was that?
Was it recorded by anyone?
Can you quote me one prominent biologist who agrees with you?
What makes you think that the appearance of a fossil tells you how that fossil came to be what it is and where it is?

Do you agree with this:
There are three choices:
(1) There is no life on earth.
(2) There has always been life on earth.
(3) At some point, there was a first living thing on earth.
 

wilsoncole

Active Member
Who observed the events alleged in Genesis?
Jesus Christ. He was sent down from heaven.
"So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world." (John 8:23)​
"From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24 When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25 Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26 when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27 When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28 when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29 when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30 then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31 being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men." (Proverbs 8:23-31)

Well - you asked!


Carbon mostly, interestingly the element most likely to form living systems (silicon being the second most likely just statistically)
Wrong!
"Belief in a form of spontaneous generation can be traced back for centuries. In the 17th century C.E., even respected men of science, including Francis Bacon and William Harvey, accepted the theory. However, by the 19th century Louis Pasteur and other scientists had seemingly dealt it a deathblow, having proved by experiments that life comes only from previous life. Nevertheless, out of necessity, evolutionary theory assumes that long ago microscopic life must somehow have arisen spontaneously from nonliving matter."
(Creation or Evolution? 1985 p. 38 Published by Jehovah's Witnesses)
Who put the ingredients together to create the 'who' who put life together? Surely if life couldn't have come about without an intelligent creator then said creator, being even more awesomely complex, required its own intelligent creator.
Wrong - again!
1. You didn't answer the question.
2. NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING - right?
We all know it is impossible for something to spring out of nothing and that everything that has a beginning was caused by something that existed before it.
With this in mind, imagine a point in the past when nothing existed - no planets, no stars, no galaxies - nothing! Not even God.
If this was the case at some time in the past, what would exist today? NOTHING! For we know that nothing comes from nothing - right?
The fact that something exists today tells us that something of someone MUST have always existed.
That which has always existed must, therefore, be that which created everything else.
Either God, or the universe must have always existed."

[youtube]WUMOxvFw4Rk[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUMOxvFw4Rk
God was always there. He needed no creator.
If you claim that He was not, then maybe you can explain how nothing ever came from nothing.

Have fun.
Who observed the events alleged in Genesis?
Jesus Christ.
Around 3.8 billion years ago. When was Eden?
The date 3027 for the time of Eden can be corroborated.
Now - please corroborate your 3.8 billion years.
Who observed the events alleged in Genesis? Whoever recorded it surely couldn't have been there, at least not before the 5th day.
Jesus Christ and myriads of angels.
". . .When the morning stars joyfully cried out together, And all the sons of God began shouting in applause?" (Job 38:7)
All of them - let's see you name one prominent biologist who doesn't.
Easy for you to say - hard to prove.
The fossil came to be because the species it belonged to existed (duh) what it is is a fossil and species are classifiable (because all of them are related) and you actually are asking where the fossil is? Isn't it where we find it?
Nothing comes from nothing - right?
Where did the species you mention come from? Origins, please!



(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson
 
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wilsoncole

Active Member
Do you agree with this:
There are three choices:
(1) There is no life on earth.
(2) There has always been life on earth.
(3) At some point, there was a first living thing on earth.
Where did the fossils come from? You didn't answer the questions. Please do.
See Reply # 664.

(\__/)
( &#8216; .&#8216; )
>(^)<

Wilson
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Where did the fossils come from? You didn't answer the questions. Please do.
See Reply # 664.

(\__/)
( ‘ .‘ )
>(^)<

Wilson

What question? I asked you a question. Do you (1) agree or (2) disagree that these are the only three possibilities? It's a simple yes or no, agree or disagree question. [p.s. why are creationists so evasive? They can't seem to answer a simple, polite question.]
 

camanintx

Well-Known Member
God was always there. He needed no creator.
If you claim that He was not, then maybe you can explain how nothing ever came from nothing.
I find it interesting that many theists believe that the universe started with just God, the most perfect being imaginable, and that things have progressively gone down hill from there (the fall, the flood, armageddon, etc.). Doesn't exactly inspire much hope for the future.

Many naturalists, on the other hand, believe that the universe started at a point of infinite simplicity, a singularity, and has become progressively more complex and ordered ever since. Sort of makes you wonder where things are going.
 

newhope101

Active Member
What question? I asked you a question. Do you (1) agree or (2) disagree that these are the only three possibilities? It's a simple yes or no, agree or disagree question. [p.s. why are creationists so evasive? They can't seem to answer a simple, polite question.]

Well Auto here is a summary of what evidence your ancestry back to early life looks like for a start, and it goes downhill from here on: I wouldn't sprook about it if I were you. You'll be torn to shreds. I have told you many many times you do NOT have evidence for evolution. What you have are theories that support evolution. The evidence supports creation.

Wiki Fossil
Earliest fossiliferous sites


Lower Proterozoic Stromatolites from Bolivia, South America


Earth’s oldest fossils are the stromatolites consisting of rock built from layer upon layer of sediment and other precipitants.[3] Based on studies of now-rare (but living) stromatolites (specifically, certain blue-green bacteria), the growth of fossil stromatolitic structures was biogenetically mediated by mats of microorganisms through their entrapment of sediments. However, abiotic mechanisms for stromatolitic growth are also known, leading to a decades-long and sometimes-contentious scientific debate regarding biogenesis of certain formations, especially those from the lower to middle Archaean eon.
It is most widely accepted that stromatolites from the late Archaean and through the middle Proterozoic eon were mostly formed by massive colonies of cyanobacteria (formerly known as blue-green "algae"), and that the oxygen byproduct of their photosynthetic metabolism first resulted in earth’s massive banded iron formations and subsequently oxygenated earth’s atmosphere.

Even though it is extremely rare, microstructures resembling cells are sometimes found within stromatolites; but these are also the source of scientific contention. The Gunflint Chert contains abundant microfossils widely accepted as a diverse consortium of 2.0 Ga microbes.[4]

In contrast, putative fossil cyanobacteria cells from the 3.4 Ga Warrawoona Group in Western Australia are in dispute since abiotic processes cannot be ruled out.[5] Confirmation of the Warrawoona microstructures as cyanobacteria would profoundly impact our understanding of when and how early life diversified, pushing important evolutionary milestones further back in time. The continued study of these oldest fossils is paramount to calibrate complementary molecularphylogenetics models.

Do you even understand your own science? Every single taxon you have has huge inconsistencies. The tree of life is dying in favour of cladistics as a result of recent phylogenic data. You are way behind the times Auto.

You shouldn't give any creationist a hard time for quoting from the bible because using your theoretical assumptions as evidence is no better evidence than quoting from a comic strip.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Well Auto here is a summary of what evidence your ancestry back to early life looks like for a start, and it goes downhill from here on: I wouldn't sprook about it if I were you. You'll be torn to shreds. I have told you many many times you do NOT have evidence for evolution. What you have are theories that support evolution. The evidence supports creation.

Wiki Fossil
Earliest fossiliferous sites


Lower Proterozoic Stromatolites from Bolivia, South America


Earth’s oldest fossils are the stromatolites consisting of rock built from layer upon layer of sediment and other precipitants.[3] Based on studies of now-rare (but living) stromatolites (specifically, certain blue-green bacteria), the growth of fossil stromatolitic structures was biogenetically mediated by mats of microorganisms through their entrapment of sediments. However, abiotic mechanisms for stromatolitic growth are also known, leading to a decades-long and sometimes-contentious scientific debate regarding biogenesis of certain formations, especially those from the lower to middle Archaean eon.
It is most widely accepted that stromatolites from the late Archaean and through the middle Proterozoic eon were mostly formed by massive colonies of cyanobacteria (formerly known as blue-green "algae"), and that the oxygen byproduct of their photosynthetic metabolism first resulted in earth’s massive banded iron formations and subsequently oxygenated earth’s atmosphere.

Even though it is extremely rare, microstructures resembling cells are sometimes found within stromatolites; but these are also the source of scientific contention. The Gunflint Chert contains abundant microfossils widely accepted as a diverse consortium of 2.0 Ga microbes.[4]

In contrast, putative fossil cyanobacteria cells from the 3.4 Ga Warrawoona Group in Western Australia are in dispute since abiotic processes cannot be ruled out.[5] Confirmation of the Warrawoona microstructures as cyanobacteria would profoundly impact our understanding of when and how early life diversified, pushing important evolutionary milestones further back in time. The continued study of these oldest fossils is paramount to calibrate complementary molecularphylogenetics models.

Do you even understand your own science? Every single taxon you have has huge inconsistencies. The tree of life is dying in favour of cladistics as a result of recent phylogenic data. You are way behind the times Auto.

You shouldn't give any creationist a hard time for quoting from the bible because using your theoretical assumptions as evidence is no better evidence than quoting from a comic strip.

1. You don't seem to understand my question. wilson is talking about abiogenesis, not evolution, for some reason. I'm trying to communicate to him that it doesn't matter how the first living thing came into existence, since ToE is not about that. He seems to be denying that there ever was a first living thing. That's what that question focuses on.

2. What does "sprook" mean?

3.I'm not scared of being torn to shreds, either I'm right, or I'm wrong and I'll learn something.

4. You keep saying that the evidence supports creation, but you refuse to state what you mean by "creation." You keep saying that it means God created everything, but we're not disputing that. You've won that. If that's your point, you could have saved all your time. If you mean something more specific than that, what? In other words,

WHAT IS YOUR HYPOTHESIS?
Because as I'm sure you're aware, you can't have evidence without a hypothesis. Therefore, it doesn't make sense, or is not honest, to assert that you have evidence of something, because you have yet to state your hypothesis. And I'm sure you understand by now that a hypothesis is

HOW, NOT WHO.
 
Jesus Christ. He was sent down from heaven.
"So he went on to say to them: "YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world." (John 8:23)
"From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. 24&#12288;When there were no watery deeps I was brought forth as with labor pains, when there were no springs heavily charged with water. 25&#12288;Before the mountains themselves had been settled down, ahead of the hills, I was brought forth as with labor pains, 26&#12288;when as yet he had not made the earth and the open spaces and the first part of the dust masses of the productive land. 27&#12288;When he prepared the heavens I was there; when he decreed a circle upon the face of the watery deep, 28&#12288;when he made firm the cloud masses above, when he caused the fountains of the watery deep to be strong, 29&#12288;when he set for the sea his decree that the waters themselves should not pass beyond his order, when he decreed the foundations of the earth, 30&#12288;then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, 31&#12288;being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men." (Proverbs 8:23-31)
Well - you asked!


Well I don't believe in the Bible so you'll have to provide some other substantiation for your allegation that a Jewish carpenter's son lay rabbi of the 1st century A.C.E. witnessed the creation.


Wrong!
"Belief in a form of spontaneous generation can be traced back for centuries. In the 17th century C.E., even respected men of science, including Francis Bacon and William Harvey, accepted the theory. However, by the 19th century Louis Pasteur and other scientists had seemingly dealt it a deathblow, having proved by experiments that life comes only from previous life. Nevertheless, out of necessity, evolutionary theory assumes that long ago microscopic life must somehow have arisen spontaneously from nonliving matter."
(Creation or Evolution? 1985 p. 38 Published by Jehovah's Witnesses)


Your question was "what are the ingredients", my answer was "mostly carbon" which isn't wrong at all. What this other gobbledygook you've blathered has to do with my answer I'd need further clarification on. In any event it has been blatantly explained to you over and over why the existence of biological evolution in no way hinges on abiogenesis or whether life can only come from life - perhaps you could cite some other sources besides 19th century outdated science opinions or 20th century religious ones.

Wrong - again!
1. You didn't answer the question.
2. NOTHING COMES FROM NOTHING - right?


Even the Bible doesn't say there was ever nothing (even not counting God)

We all know it is impossible for something to spring out of nothing and that everything that has a beginning was caused by something that existed before it.With this in mind, imagine a point in the past when nothing existed - no planets, no stars, no galaxies - nothing! Not even God.
If this was the case at some time in the past, what would exist today? NOTHING! For we know that nothing comes from nothing - right? The fact that something exists today tells us that something of someone MUST have always existed.
That which has always existed must, therefore, be that which created everything else.


Your last statement is a baseless assumption and doesn't logically follow from your previous lines.

Either God, or the universe must have always existed."


Of the two it's the universe which we know for sure actually exists NOW.

God was always there. He needed no creator.
If you claim that He was not, then maybe you can explain how nothing ever came from nothing.


If material existence can't just have always been then why can a god have always been? You can't even wrap your mind around the idea biological life could have arisen through natural processes how on earth is it so easy for you to accept an eternal all knowing all powerful intelligence could have just always existed? There never was nothing, that would be my explanation - it would even be in line with the Bible which doesn't say there was once nothing. God "walked on the face of the deep". The deep what?

The date 3027 for the time of Eden can be corroborated.
Now - please corroborate your 3.8 billion years.


Sorry, you'll need to corroborate Eden's existence with archaeological evidence, there really shouldn't be any fossil evidence encased in sedimentary rock anywhere if Eden was within the past 10,000 years. Surely there is archaeological evidence supporting the radiation of modern humans from some spot on Earth? Both the fossil evidence and genetic evidence strongly point to a Homo sapiens origin in S. Africa around 180,000-200,000 years ago.

Where did the species you mention come from? Origins, please!


I don't remember mentioning a specific species, remind me and I'll answer. In general all modern species have ancestral species in the fossil record which in turn have ancestral species and the older the strata the fossil comes from the less like the modern form the ancestral one looks until they converge to become ancestral with multiple modern species (as with dogs and bears for example which share ancestral forms)
 

newhope101

Active Member
Autodidact for the one hundreth time.

My HYPOTHESIS is GOD created all 'kinds' and they did not evolve from other kinds. This is generally a creationist hypothesis. You have not articulated your hypothesis yet. Please do. You have many to choose from that try to explain the theory of evolution.

And evidence is evidence. Your theory changes like the wind, eg knucklewalking.

Are you insinuating that Wilson as a creationist means by his words that God did not Create first kinds. Or Is he not contesting that your TOE suggests there was a first single living organism? Could it be that you are playing with words in desperation?

You demanded fossil evidence, for what..who knows..that's just what you do! Then fail miserably in defending your position the same as you can't state a hypothesis.

The fossil evidence shows your evidence is far from evidence at all. It theory and probably and hopefully......

Sprook means shoot off your mouth about things that have no substance. eg Tiktaalik being great evidence........
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Autodidact for the one hundreth time.

My HYPOTHESIS is GOD created all 'kinds' and they did not evolve from other kinds. This is generally a creationist hypothesis. You have not articulated your hypothesis yet. Please do. You have many to choose from that try to explain the theory of evolution.
For the 100th time, "God created" is not a hypothesis. We all agree that "God created." The question is:

HOW.

So now I have an iota of a germ of a hypothesis, which has something do with something called a "kind," whatever that may be, but it still hasn't told us HOW. Which I'm sure you understand is what a scientific hypothesis is.

In youre view,

HOW

did God create the various "kinds." Oh, and what is a "kind?"

Are you insinuating that Wilson as a creationist means by his words that God did not Create first kinds.
No, wilson seems to only talk about abiogenesis, so whatever he is saying, which I don't really understand and am trying to clarify, it's about that.
Or Is he not contesting that your TOE suggests there was a first single living organism?
You'd have to ask him.
Could it be that you are playing with words in desperation?
Why would I be desperate, just for accepting modern science?

You demanded fossil evidence, for what..who knows..that's just what you do!
I demanded fossil evidence? I don't remember that. It is, however, what the thread is about, so if you don't want to discuss that, then why participate in this thread?
Then fail miserably in defending your position the same as you can't state a hypothesis.
I must have missed that part.
The fossil evidence shows your evidence is far from evidence at all. It theory and probably and hopefully......
Really? How so?

Sprook means shoot off your mouth about things that have no substance. eg Tiktaalik being great evidence........
That's a neat word. Is it Dutch? However, I think mainstream paleontology thinks Tiktaalik is pretty cool evidence. After all, it was only current evolutionary understanding that made it possible for them to know where to look for it. What do you think the Tiktaalik fossil indicates?
 

newhope101

Active Member
Autodidact...This stupidity you continue to go on about is why we speask to abiogenesis. If you demand that creationists state their hypothesis about HOW God created the first living kinds; Then unless you are a hypocrite you likewise must state how your first kind, species or whatever, came about. You cannot. You can speak to a multitude of theories but you cannot provide evidence of HOW any LIFE EVOLVED. more than a creationist can explain HOW HOW HOW GOD CREATED.

Creationist theory re abiogenesis is GOD CREATED. YOU ARE THE ONE FLOGGING THIS HORSE. CAN YOU SEE YOU YOU YOU ARE THE ONE THAT KEEPS BRINGING UP ABIOGENESIS.

Simply there is ample evidence to support there is no LUCA. I have put up the horizontal gene transference graph enough times. This is your research lovey; done by researchers that have more credentials than anyone here. Hence, that research shows multiple cells arising individually and then sharing genes. This is all theory. The fact that there is research out there that is accepted by many and acknowledged now as 'common thinking' demonstrates just one area of debate.

Debates are not evidence. To suggest that one of the predictions of TOE is change and debate then that hardly sounds like evidence.

STOP.... HOW HOW HOW and go play on an abiogenesis thread if you need to be that anal. OR give us your theory of HOW HOW HOW or be a hypocrite!
 
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Autodidact...This stupidity...

ad hominem, the battle cry of the creationist.

you continue to go on about is why we speask to abiogenesis. If you demand that creationists state their hypothesis about HOW God created the first living kinds; Then unless you are a hypocrite you likewise must state how your first kind, species or whatever, came about. You cannot. You can speak to a multitude of theories but you cannot provide evidence of HOW any LIFE EVOLVED. more than a creationist can explain HOW HOW HOW GOD CREATED.

I don't know why any of us continue to waste our time with you but it should be readily apparent why explaining the existence of the first lifeforms isn't a prerequisite to the existence of evolution as it's been reviewed a gazillian times even just since I've been frequenting these forums. Darwin himself suggested in Origin Of The Species there may have been a few (or one) original form(s) created by God from which all other life evolved.

And what do you mean by "kind, species or whatever"? Species is defined as a scientific term, I agree with those who've pointed out you need to define 'Kind' since no creationist has. Walt Brown defined 'Kind' as a lifeform which bred true only with its own. OK, what 'Kind' is a mule then? Is it Donkey Kind or Horse Kind? A mule can't breed true, what you say Newhope?

Here I returned to my post to insert an invite to a new thread I started http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ationists-please-define-kind.html#post2315054 for creationists to come define their term 'Kind' so as not to start another off topic discussion on this thread.

Creationist theory re abiogenesis is GOD CREATED. YOU ARE THE ONE FLOGGING THIS HORSE. CAN YOU SEE YOU YOU YOU ARE THE ONE THAT KEEPS BRINGING UP ABIOGENESIS.

Ummm, no. You just brought it up again off topic.

Simply there is ample evidence to support there is no LUCA. I have put up the horizontal gene transference graph enough times. This is your research lovey; done by researchers that have more credentials than anyone here. Hence, that research shows multiple cells arising individually and then sharing genes. This is all theory. The fact that there is research out there that is accepted by many and acknowledged now as 'common thinking' demonstrates just one area of debate.Debates are not evidence. To suggest that one of the predictions of TOE is change and debate then that hardly sounds like evidence.

All you do is use creationist sources that quote mine what they don't make up out of whole cloth, why don't you ever provide direct scientific sources supporting your claims, cuz you can't that's why.

STOP.... HOW HOW HOW and go play on an abiogenesis thread if you need to be that anal. OR give us your theory of HOW HOW HOW or be a hypocrite!

Oh good, more ad hominem. Evolution is the HOW of speciation, as to the HOW of original genesis of life, that's a separate topic. You seem to feel content 'explaining' both with POOF!
 
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Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Autodidact...This stupidity you continue to go on about is why we speask to abiogenesis. If you demand that creationists state their hypothesis about HOW God created the first living kinds; Then unless you are a hypocrite you likewise must state how your first kind, species or whatever, came about.
This would be true, if I were claiming to know how this happened, or that there was evidence supporting my position on how it happened. But I'm not. On the contrary, I am happy to posit, for the purpose of this thread, that God magically poofed the first living thing into existence. I'll agree with you. Now, back to evolution.
You cannot. You can speak to a multitude of theories but you cannot provide evidence of HOW any LIFE EVOLVED.
Oh, but I can. I have lots and lots and lots of evidence about HOW LIFE EVOLVED, much of it contributed by you. HOW LIFE EVOLVED is a different question from ABIOGENESIS. You know that, right?
more than a creationist can explain HOW HOW HOW GOD CREATED.
You don't have a hypothesis? Seriously? And all this time you've been claiming to be posting evidence? If you don't have a hypothesis, what have you been posting evidence for? [Please remember, not WHO, but HOW. Would it help you remember if I put this in a big colored font?]
Creationist theory re abiogenesis is GOD CREATED.
O.K., Let's go with that. Now, about evolution....
YOU ARE THE ONE FLOGGING THIS HORSE. CAN YOU SEE YOU YOU YOU ARE THE ONE THAT KEEPS BRINGING UP ABIOGENESIS.
Really? When did I do that? Can you point us to the post? Thanks.
Simply there is ample evidence to support there is no LUCA.
Oh, you want to provide evidence against evolution, not evidence in favor of your non-existent hypothesis. O.K.
I have put up the horizontal gene transference graph enough times.
How is that evidence against LUCA?
This is your research lovey; done by researchers that have more credentials than anyone here. Hence, that research shows multiple cells arising individually and then sharing genes.
Are you sure? I'm not sure you understand this research correctly.
This is all theory. The fact that there is research out there that is accepted by many and acknowledged now as 'common thinking' demonstrates just one area of debate.
Well of course. The entire subject is up for debate--you know that, right? That's the hallmark of science. Here's what no one is debating: Whether ToE is correct. I don't think you can find me any "researchers with more credentials than anyone here" debating that, and that, of course, is the subject of this thread.

Debates are not evidence. To suggest that one of the predictions of TOE is change and debate then that hardly sounds like evidence.

STOP.... HOW HOW HOW and go play on an abiogenesis thread if you need to be that anal. OR give us your theory of HOW HOW HOW or be a hypocrite!
I'm not particularly interested in abiogenesis, thanks, and never raise it in a thread of this type.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
Well atleast we are ALL in agreement that no out of place fossils have been found and that ALL fossils show a clear evolutionary path for all life since bacteria to present.

EXCELLENT!
 

Amill

Apikoros
Autodidact for the one hundreth time.

My HYPOTHESIS is GOD created all 'kinds' and they did not evolve from other kinds. This is generally a creationist hypothesis. You have not articulated your hypothesis yet. Please do. You have many to choose from that try to explain the theory of evolution.

And evidence is evidence. Your theory changes like the wind, eg knucklewalking.


Are you insinuating that Wilson as a creationist means by his words that God did not Create first kinds. Or Is he not contesting that your TOE suggests there was a first single living organism? Could it be that you are playing with words in desperation?

You demanded fossil evidence, for what..who knows..that's just what you do! Then fail miserably in defending your position the same as you can't state a hypothesis.

The fossil evidence shows your evidence is far from evidence at all. It theory and probably and hopefully......

Sprook means shoot off your mouth about things that have no substance. eg Tiktaalik being great evidence........

So unchanging hypotheses are best?:facepalm: Where would we be if models and explanations didn't adapt to new evidence. But the proposal stays the same, and there hasn't been any evidence to debunk the main points. It's just the details that aren't quite all clear. But what details are there about your hypothesis lol? God created all, the end. K thanks.

Tiktaalik is great evidence, so what if there were other species similar to it that may have even existed before it's presence. Like I said earlier

So what LOL. That's like being surprised at there being different kinds of wolves. And with any of the fossils we find, no one can be certain that it represents the exact species that whatever you're discussing is descended from. In 50 million years from now will the frog people be able to tell from fossils which exact species of frog they're descended from? No because there's a billion of them and many look extremely similar. But that doesn't change the fact that we still make predictions about the characteristics of fossils and then go out and find exactly that. That's why we can find dinosaurs with feathers and some other avian characteristics, that's why we cant agree over whether or not certain specimens are mammal like reptiles or reptile like mammals, that's why we find fossils with basal characteristics of both monkeys and lemurs, ect, ect, ect. And do you have any explanation for why we find fossils that we can't describe as fully bear or fully dog? God just made certain animals that way? It's just a coincidence that we find examples of animals that appear to fill the transition from land animal to aquatic whales?

God "oopsies I didn't mean to make an animal that looks like a bear or a dog, oopsies I didn't mean to make an animal that they will have trouble classifying as bird or dinosaur, what the hell....why did I give manatees fingernails again?"

Sorry but to be a creationist you must believe that either all the fossils are a hoax, that god put them there to test their faith, or that it's just a coincidence that god made organisms that resemble the predictions made if evolution were true. Like birds with teeth, claws, long tails, resembling raptor dinosaurs with feathers.... Or the bones of velociraptors that have little indentations on their bones like today's birds do, where on today's birds quill knobs go. Must be just a coincidence.
 
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wilsoncole

Active Member
What question? I asked you a question. Do you (1) agree or (2) disagree that these are the only three possibilities? It's a simple yes or no, agree or disagree question. [p.s. why are creationists so evasive? They can't seem to answer a simple, polite question.]
These questions:
"Are you for real? Since you are bold enough to argue to the contrary, tell me - who observed the spontaneous generation of life?
What are the ingredients?
Who put the ingredients together in such a comprehensive manner?
Was abiogenesis happening when was it observed?
Exactly how long ago was that?
Was it recorded by anyone?
Can you quote me one prominent biologist who agrees with you?
What makes you think that the appearance of a fossil tells you how that fossil came to be what it is and where it is?"

I asked these questions of Krok and you presumed to answer them without answering them.
Now you insist that I answer yours without paying attention to the fact that mine appeared in print before yours. I didn't ask for your non-answer. You took it upon yourself. Now answer up or admit that you can't and let the man in question do it.
 
These questions:
"Are you for real? Since you are bold enough to argue to the contrary, tell me - who observed the spontaneous generation of life?
What are the ingredients?
Who put the ingredients together in such a comprehensive manner?
Was abiogenesis happening when was it observed?
Exactly how long ago was that?
Was it recorded by anyone?
Can you quote me one prominent biologist who agrees with you?
What makes you think that the appearance of a fossil tells you how that fossil came to be what it is and where it is?"

I asked these questions of Krok and you presumed to answer them without answering them.
Now you insist that I answer yours without paying attention to the fact that mine appeared in print before yours. I didn't ask for your non-answer. You took it upon yourself. Now answer up or admit that you can't and let the man in question do it.

I took the liberty to answer them, I'm still waiting for the archaeological evidence pointing to when Eden existed. among other things.
 
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