What does your faith say and do to promote race unity?

[CG Didymus]

I agree fully but my perspective is that in order to overcome problems like racism society needs to be proactive in promoting racial harmony.

Just allowing bad relations to continue or agreeing in words that racism is wrong won’t change anything.

Only by turning on a light does one expel darkness. If society does nothing to promote racial unity then racism won’t go away.

For most of us today, it is obvious that the color of a person's skin isn't a factor of how smart they are or what they are capable of doing and becoming. Do some societies and cultures keep them artificially down? Still? In the past some people, like white Europeans, which were mostly some type of Christian, thought it would be nice if they could get material wealth out of different regions of the world. Only problem, there were people living there. Those people had to be marginalized to justify taking their lands and resources and making them slaves or even trying to exterminate them or put them on reservations.

Are some people still exploiting others and marginalizing them? Why? They need cheap labor, but they don't want those people living in the same areas that they live in, so they "put" them on "reservations." The inner cities or other poor, run down areas. From there, those people can come work for those other people in the richer, better areas, but they better not stay there or wander around that area, because they don't belong there.

That is starting to break down, and by not putting people down and keeping them down because of their skin color is only a small part of fixing this. The Baha'is have some suggestions on fixing another part of this problem, the unequitable economic system. Many poor work their whole lives but don't make enough money to get ahead. But there is White poor also. Does anyone care about them? Yes, little. Like the liberal parties in the different countries. Religious groups. But the economic system needs cheap, expendable workers. In the U.S. we had people unionize to get better wages and other benefits. Then what happened? Many companies moved their manufacturing plants to other countries that had cheap, exploitable people to do the work.

We can say we are all equal all day long. And that we don't judge a person by their skin, but, in the U.S., when we drive out into the rural areas... who's working the fields? When we drive by the Southern border, who's is staring at us from the other side of the wall or fence? When we get off of the wrong exit and go through the old dilapidated part of the city, who do we see there? With a little bit of anger in their eyes, as if to say, "What are you doing here?" And if you are the wrong color and stay too late, you will get mugged. Then you get out of town, way out of town. Maybe in the middle of some dry, God-forbidden place in the desert. And there you see a once proud people, but now you see empty booze bottles and people just sitting there... waiting for the government to give them some money.

How you fix all that? How's religion going to fix that? The government puts Band-Aids on the problem. Like I said on a different thread, the young people are getting together. And not judging each other by the color of their skin. But it's a low, low level, even maybe the rock bottom part of society. Kids are getting together with music, which could be Rap and Hip hop. They're unifying over taking drugs and making money off of selling drugs. And they are "hooking" up sexually... White, Brown, Black, it don't matter. They are prejudiced. What's religion going to do for them? Many aren't racist with each other, no doubt some are. But they have a common enemy, the screwed up system. The system that keeps them down. The system that expects them to go to school, listen to authority and get a job.

Sure, some kids get out of that place and move on up the ladder. Like the McDonalds commercials that show kids of color working their way through college while working flipping burgers. Kids are being successful at playing that game. Way too many aren't. And way too many don't even want to play that game. So at an early age they get into a neighborhood gang and learn to shoot a gang and rob a store, steal a car and pimp out girls... probably to a few rich guys from the good side of town. So who, other than the other neighborhood gangs, is their biggest enemy? The police. And what do the police see everyday? Gangs, drugs, guns, prostitution and everybody looks alike. They all have hoodies and dark skin. They all are probably up to no good. So both sides pre-judge each other and don't trust each other. How's religion going to fix that?

So beyond getting over judging people by their skin color, Baha'is can talk about how to get beyond an economic system that has exploited people and still depends on exploiting people to get them to work for as little as possible. And, to get beyond a system that gives handouts to those that don't want to work. Not enough for them to get anywhere. But enough to go buy a bottle of wine and drown their sorrows. Religions have been there and are trying to help. But the problem is way bigger than giving them a meal or a place to stay if they've lost their job and are down on their luck. At some point we are going to have to stop playing games, society is screwed up. Can religion fix it?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I agree with everything you said until you made this statement. I respectfully wonder what you mean by it? For most justice advocates, “color blindness” is a slippery slope. Here’s why: minority people of color are unique. The differences they offer add important contributions to the human family. Those differences aren’t to be overlooked, as in blindness, as if they’re “the same as everybody else.” That sentiment is the slippery slope. It’s usually made by whites in social power. When they make that statement, it assumes that “like everybody else” means “like us whites.” Meant as an inclusive statement, it’s often a statement of blind entitlement. It assumes the “norm” is white, and they’re doing people of color a boon to include them “in the club.”

Diversity is a good thing. The differences offered by people of color are to be seen, recognized as variety, and celebrated in their own right. Color blindness washes the whole humanity into sameness that dismisses important differences — differences that matter to identity, and uniqueness, and diversity.

My denomination doesn’t believe God is color blind. We don’t believe we should be color blind. In fact, we have a whole arm of our general church devoted to racial awareness. We answer God’s call to justice, to equity, and to love of neighbor. Prejudice is not part of the game plan. White entitlement is not part of the game plan. A uniform humanity is not part of the game plan.

That is a good point made, unity in our divirsity is the aim. I see the garden of humanity was created to give that diversity.

In the Baha'i Writings the minority races have been given voice in our law.

".... every organized community enlisted under the banner of Bahá’u’lláh should feel it to be its first and inescapable obligation to nurture, encourage, and safeguard every minority belonging to any faith, race, class, or nation within it.

This principle is given practical expression in the provisions governing the functioning of Bahá’í administrative institutions. The passage quoted above goes on to state that “in such circumstances, as when an equal number of ballots have been cast in an election, or where the qualifications for any office are balanced as between various races, faiths or nationalities within the community, priority should unhesitatingly be accorded the party representing the minority, and this for no other reason except to stimulate and encourage it . . .”

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can religion fix it?

Sure can, unity in our diversity needs to be embraced.

Children need to be educated without predudices to find their full potential from while they are still in the womb.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Teachings of Abrahamic religions are focused on evangelism. Bahais are starters and no exception.

 

[CG Didymus]

".... every organized community enlisted under the banner of Bahá’u’lláh should feel it to be its first and inescapable obligation to nurture, encourage, and safeguard every minority belonging to any faith, race, class, or nation within it.

Sure can, unity in our diversity needs to be embraced.

Children need to be educated without predudices to find their full potential from while they are still in the womb.

I know the Baha'i Faith is limited in its ability to do a lot of things for the minorities. And you've shown how the Baha'is have set up schools. What other things are Baha'is doing to help in the poorer communities? And are they able to work with other organizations and religious groups to help these communities out economically?

Like it would have been nice if those people fleeing Central America were welcomed in and helped, but no... after walking hundreds of miles the U.S. turned them away. I'm sure some Baha'is and some other religious groups are helping them. But the problem goes back to their country where their is corruption in government plus the drug lords to deal with. How does religion fix that? Besides with words, "Politicians, don't be corrupt." "Drug lords, stop selling drugs."

Ooh, I just remember a movie about a Catholic priest. Here's a little bit about him...

Óscar Arnulfo Romero y Galdámez (15 August 1917 – 24 March 1980) was a prelate of the Catholic Church in El Salvador who served as the fourth Archbishop of San Salvador. He spoke out against poverty, social injustice, assassinations, and torture amid a growing war between left-wing and right-wing forces.[3] In 1980, Romero was assassinated while celebrating Mass in the chapel of the Hospital of Divine Providence. Though no one was ever convicted for the crime, investigations by the UN-created Truth Commission for El Salvador concluded that the extreme right-wing politician, founder of ARENA and death squad leader Roberto D'Aubuisson had given the order.[4]
​

Then there's many Black religious leaders, like Martin Luther King, that put themselves out there and spoke out. And many of them got shot.

Is marching... is being vocal at these protests even allowed in the Baha'i Faith? How far can a Baha'i go to stand up for the rights of oppressed people without violating the Baha'i laws about not getting involved in politics?

Well Tony, it's dinner time here. What is it there? Tomorrow morning? Anyway, I'll check with you later.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Is marching... is being vocal at these protests even allowed in the Baha'i Faith? How far can a Baha'i go to stand up for the rights of oppressed people without violating the Baha'i laws about not getting involved in politics?

Well Tony, it's dinner time here. What is it there? Tomorrow morning? Anyway, I'll check with you later.

I think when it is 9 pm in America, I am already 2pm the next day, so if you are 9 pm 6/06/2020, I am 2pm 7/06/2020 (now 2;30pm)

Baha'i will join in peaceful protests, but will not identify with any political stance of other factions. we stand for the rights of all people.

Abdul'baha offered ; "… All the members of the human family, whether peoples or governments, cities or villages, have become increasingly interdependent. For none is self-sufficiency any longer possible, inasmuch as political ties unite all peoples and nations, and the bonds of trade and industry, of agriculture and education, are being strengthened every day. Hence the unity of all mankind can in this day be achieved. Verily this is none other but one of the wonders of this wondrous age, this glorious century—the century of light—has been endowed with the unique and unprecedented glory, power and illumination. Hence the miraculous unfolding of a fresh marvel every day. Eventually it will be seen how bright its candles will burn in the assemblage of man...."

That is the day I see is being built.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Nice question. As a religion, Christianity and Islam have not contributed anything to India. Even the sufis caused conversions, which are now a reason for conflict. We were fooled by the sufis. As persons they have contributed to India in various fields.

Hinduism is a beautiful religion in so many ways. If I had grown up in India as a Hindu I would never sacrifice my faith for another.

 

[dawny0826]

Love is the central focus of my faith. I find that when I focus on love and understanding, everything else falls into place. It also helped that I swallowed my pride and chose to listen to what was being said to me about white privilege and systemic racism. Jesus reestablishes the ten commandments adding one additional commandment...to love thy neighbor as thyself as when we love we fulfill the law to the fullest.

I don't recall anything specific which references to racism, but, the bible depicts comparable themes to include slavery and a myriad of references to persecution and prosecution.

At the crux of it, recognizing racism and desiring to understand how one might fix what's broken requires that we listen and care. Neither require faith or religious leanings. I think that Christians have the tools in the toolkit to make a difference and in a big way. Unfortunately, there's a culture of conservatism within Christianity that doesn't seem to get it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hinduism is a beautiful religion in so many ways. If I had grown up in India as a Hindu I would never sacrifice my faith for another.

But Bahai religion is an "revealed" "Abrahamic" "monotheist" religion.
(i.e., sorry, can not return you the compliment. )

 

[Deeje]

Deeje: "We knew that God recognizes no race as superior." You did? I had heard that at one time your people were debating if the blacks had souls.

Who told you that?
It was once believed that the black race was cursed, but that was Christendom's belief based on a misinterpretation of Noah's curse on Canaan.....and it was the doctrine behind apartheid.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That's nice. Only, here in Virginia, our church remains closed as do most businesses that aren't hardware, mechanics, or grocery. Still others are "open" with the requirement that if you do not wear masks and/or gloves you will not get any service.

Wait a second, you need something on your hands or face, or they won't buy or sell... that sounds awfully familiar....
Revelation 13:16
Ah yes... anyone not having something on their forehead (forehead, base of your spine, mouth, I don't think it matters except for symbolic) or hands is not able to use stores. And of course this goes for storekeepers too.

Yeah, it's fun to play "All are brothers and sisters in Christ" but many churches have proved that they are in fact the false church in Revelation. They talk of peace and love, but nonetheless none are welcome at the gate without also wearing masks and gloves (might as well be closed if you do this). Or they don't even sigh at all the businesses that are closed, yet their heart bleeds for rioters in some cases literally want to stage a French Revolution style bloodbath.
The Religious Harlot “Church” of Revelation 17
This article mentions something interesting. It mentions the key part of knowing whether your church is decent or not is whether they have gotten caught up in the idea of a church of "unity." I think it's funny that they hate modern gospel music tho.

Let's review Jesus's on words. Matthew 10:34-36
Jesus has not come to make us one. He's come to make us separate, even within our own household. My own house has three different mentalities about current events. Separation means sovereignty, while unity often means lockstep regimes. Do we need to talk about Hitler and how he expect people who didn't match hair and eye color got killed off?

Jesus also warns against being people-pleasers.
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:26 - New Living Translation
See the note. Your soul, also translates as "your self". You can try to gain the approval of everyone, but lose the approval of the one person that matters. Yourself.

The church fails if they are people pleasers, if they glorify those who do violence to others, if they seek after "unity" at the cost of things like freedom and human rights. Oh yeah, and if it cares about the things of this world.
Skin color, physical health, monetary wealth are all just things of this world. Soon this world will pass away, and one thing we don't want to be is idolaters.

And people have been declared nonessential.

I have a different interpretation of the book of Revelation and what the beast represents. In the meantime I’ll enjoy my one world religion, admiring the Pope and wearing a mask to protect me from coronavirus. I may even stand up for the rights of African-Americans.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"There have been serious theological treatises on whether women, slaves, ideological or political adversaries have souls.
Some wonder if animals, even fish, have souls.
The question is usually asked from a safe and lofty, assured if not assumed, confidence in one’s own possession of a soul - if not certain “salvation.”
Any atrocity or exploitation, it seems, is allowable, if the objects are without souls.
This line of thought was inspired by a recent case of a juror who, after “studying his Bible” was convinced that Black people do not have souls.
The perceived lack of a soul allowed, if not required, this juror to press for the death penalty with a clear conscience.
Putting aside the blatant racism, terrible theology, and inherent self-righteousness of the juror’s logic, one has to admit, that in a salvation/damnation model of religion, a high level of heartlessness, if not soullessness, is often required to “uphold” one’s “religious values.”
If a certain race, population, even gender is seen as lost, why would it matter if we exploited, stole from, or violated them?
In fact, as that “theology” has developed and been applied over the centuries, the assumption has emerged several times that these “soulless” races, cultures, and adherents of other religions have been put in front of us to convert or exploit specifically for our own uses, with no inherent value or autonomy of their own.
It is a most convenient theology.
Any violent or rapacious act is justified — if not demanded — by “our God” and our interpretation of “our” scriptures.
And, of course it is true. At least if your “God” is a God of violence, exploitation, oppression, enslavement, literal dehumanization, and destruction at every level."
Do Black People Have Souls? – Red Letter Christians

 

[Dawnofhope]

But Bahai religion is an "revealed" "Abrahamic" "monotheist" religion.
(i.e., sorry, can not return you the compliment. )

I’m not fishing for compliments and am very happy with my Revealed, Abrahamic, monotheistic religion. But thanks all the same.

I’m exploring the concept of abandoning one’s traditional religion in favour of an entirely new paradigm. In that light why would someone who has grown up with Hinduism abandon their Hindu Faith to become a Christian? Alternatively why would one who has grown up with Christianity throw it away to become a Hindu?

Hinduism and Christianity are two parallel traditions that have existed for lengthy periods in relative isolation from one another. The Vedas makes no reference to Judeo-Christianity and likewise the Christian Bible has no references to Hinduism. So they are two very different religions that have developed in geographically separate spaces each meeting the spiritual needs of their peoples. Admittedly the British colonising India with economic advantage taken by one side didn’t get the relationship off to a great start.

Now the world has become as a global village. On RF the atheist Hindu in Deli can talk to the JW Christian in Australia as well as the Baha’i in NZ. We could have a fantastic conversation with each other or shoot insults across the Indian Ocean.

 

[oldbadger]

So a few questions to get us started:
How important is race unity to you and why?

Very. I live in a multi-cultural multi-racial, multi-colour, multi-sexual, multi-ableness country....... so all these characteristics matter. I don't know many religions that include all of those.

How important is it to your faith community?

I live in a secular community which is how so many different people can communicate because religions can (and do) isolate some groups

What are some of the steps you or your faith community have taken to foster race unity?

As I say, I do not live in a 'faith-community' .

Has your faith community been racist in the past and had to overcome prejudice?
If your faith has scriptures, what do they have to say about race relations?

Ah! Nothing I'm afraid. The local Boss (Prophet?) of Deism is Mother Nature and she is particularly bigoted, ingrained with many prejudices. Survival of the fittest, brightest, hardest etc. This produces many prejudices.... you can blame Mother Nature.
So whilst I respect the God of all, I know s/he has set many challenges for me/us.

Any other comments?

Yes. Deism requires as much honesty as possible.
Many religions will read my answers and say ;'Oh how bad!' when in fact they themselves exclude some of the tenets that I have mentioned in my first sentence, which we must embrace.

 

[CG Didymus]

I’m not fishing for compliments and am very happy with my Revealed, Abrahamic, monotheistic religion. But thanks all the same.

I’m exploring the concept of abandoning one’s traditional religion in favour of an entirely new paradigm. In that light why would someone who has grown up with Hinduism abandon their Hindu Faith to become a Christian? Alternatively why would one who has grown up with Christianity throw it away to become a Hindu?

Hinduism and Christianity are two parallel traditions that have existed for lengthy periods in relative isolation from one another. The Vedas makes no reference to Judeo-Christianity and likewise the Christian Bible has no references to Hinduism. So they are two very different religions that have developed in geographically separate spaces each meeting the spiritual needs of their peoples. Admittedly the British colonising India with economic advantage taken by one side didn’t get the relationship off to a great start.

Now the world has become as a global village. On RF the atheist Hindu in Deli can talk to the JW Christian in Australia as well as the Baha’i in NZ. We could have a fantastic conversation with each other or shoot insults across the Indian Ocean.

That's so much better than what most Baha'is say about Hinduism and Christianity. As you know, I have no problem believing that each culture played a large part in coming up with spiritual and religious ideas that fit their society. With the concept of "progressive" revelation, some Baha'is make it sound like the new religion replaces the old one. But with Hinduism and Christianity, like you say, they were, for the most part, developing parallel to each other.

So how do you, as a Baha'i, make sense of the reality of such very different religions? To say, as some Baha'is say, that "originally" Hinduism and/or Buddhism taught about one God, but that those teachings got lost and distorted. Why? Why can't the religions simply be different? But now, now that we are a global village, and now that more and more people are realizing that all people are one, how do religions get beyond thinking that their is better or the best? And that includes the Baha'i, because Baha's do re-interpret all the other religions in some ways to make them fit with Baha'i concepts of spiritual and religious reality. Which then leads to some people in the other religions to get offended by Baha'is. Anyway, what's going through your head about how Baha'is, Hindus, JW and other Christians, and all the other people on the planet can get along and respect each other no matter what color or shade of skin they have, and no matter what beliefs they have?

 

[Vinayaka]

"There have been serious theological treatises on whether women, slaves, ideological or political adversaries have souls.
Some wonder if animals, even fish, have souls.
The question is usually asked from a safe and lofty, assured if not assumed, confidence in one’s own possession of a soul - if not certain “salvation.”
Any atrocity or exploitation, it seems, is allowable, if the objects are without souls.
This line of thought was inspired by a recent case of a juror who, after “studying his Bible” was convinced that Black people do not have souls.
The perceived lack of a soul allowed, if not required, this juror to press for the death penalty with a clear conscience.
Putting aside the blatant racism, terrible theology, and inherent self-righteousness of the juror’s logic, one has to admit, that in a salvation/damnation model of religion, a high level of heartlessness, if not soullessness, is often required to “uphold” one’s “religious values.”
If a certain race, population, even gender is seen as lost, why would it matter if we exploited, stole from, or violated them?
In fact, as that “theology” has developed and been applied over the centuries, the assumption has emerged several times that these “soulless” races, cultures, and adherents of other religions have been put in front of us to convert or exploit specifically for our own uses, with no inherent value or autonomy of their own.
It is a most convenient theology.
Any violent or rapacious act is justified — if not demanded — by “our God” and our interpretation of “our” scriptures.
And, of course it is true. At least if your “God” is a God of violence, exploitation, oppression, enslavement, literal dehumanization, and destruction at every level."
Do Black People Have Souls? – Red Letter Christians

It's always interesting to me how ego/personality interprets this externally. It is the person who has the soul, always. In my POV, it is the soul that inhabits the physical body, taking on a 'person' for one lifetime. I find those opposing views an enormous distance in the theology of east and west.

As for identification with another human, when that 'human' is seen as a soul, not a human (yes, temporarily) gender, race, etc. become largely irrelevant. That is the essence behind 'namaste' the greeting. This is such a fundamental concept.

It's also useful (and deep) to look at a person as not the person, but what area of the vast mind are they flowing in at the moment, or how their subconscious is what it is today, at this moment.

 

[ManSinha]

I don't know many religions that include all of those.

Author: Guru Gobind Singh

 

[Aupmanyav]

Good. However, not a word by word translation of the second pad, which does not mention Hindu or Muslims. The best translation is that which does not add anything from the translator's side. The original itself is strong enough.

 

[oldbadger]

View attachment 40584

Author: Guru Gobind Singh

But sadly, we in Britain hear many reports of much prejudice from Hindu and Islamic countries. (and all the other religions )

The reason is found within different followers rather than the religions, surely?

 

[Dawnofhope]

So how do you, as a Baha'i, make sense of the reality of such very different religions?

If we are considering humanity’s experience though the last six thousand years over vastly different cultures, why would we expect anything other than huge diversity.

To say, as some Baha'is say, that "originally" Hinduism and/or Buddhism taught about one God, but that those teachings got lost and distorted. Why?

There is a movement within many faiths to better understand what the original teachings of this or that teacher may have been. Unfortunately with the passing of time we have no way of knowing for certain, especially for any religion that’s more than two thousand years old or even much younger if there’s little or no written records. So in the absence of a clear message than can be confidently attributed to Buddha, Krishna or earlier Avatars there is a risk of projecting our preconceived ideas into the mix. Bahá’u’lláh calls this ‘vain imaginings.’

Why can't the religions simply be different?

They clearly are. We would have to be exceptionally naive to imagine otherwise.

But now, now that we are a global village, and now that more and more people are realizing that all people are one, how do religions get beyond thinking that their is better or the best?

One problem is attachment to the paradigm we have become accustomed to. Peoples of all faiths may use some of their core teachings as a yardstick to compare themselves to others. One Christian is convinced only through Christ can salvation be attained. A Hindu may believe in reincarnation and Moksha. Any religion that doesn’t recognise this is deficient in some way. Then a Muslim may see Muhammad as the seal of the Prophets and the Quran as the final Revelation from Allah to mankind. A Baha’i sees Bahá’u’lláh as the most recent Manifestation of God. Even an atheist or agnostic could feel a superior seeing the lowly state religion has fallen to.

But can we really know if Jesus is the one true path? Can we know for certain if reincarnation and moksha are real? How can we be sure if Muhammad really is the final Prophet of Allah? By what objective standard do we determine Bahá’u’lláh is the most recent Manifestation of God. Can the atheist really know of a certainty there is no God? How can the agnostic be certain of the inherent uncertainty he perceives?

What we can determine through reason and experience is the necessity of virtue. Love, compassion, justice, humility and truthful are among the essential virtues we all must strive towards. If our faith or lack there of assists us to acquire virtues and become better people we become better people and less concerned with questions of whether or not one faith is superior to another.

And that includes the Baha'i, because Baha's do re-interpret all the other religions in some ways to make them fit with Baha'i concepts of spiritual and religious reality. Which then leads to some people in the other religions to get offended by Baha'is. Anyway, what's going through your head about how Baha'is, Hindus, JW and other Christians, and all the other people on the planet can get along and respect each other no matter what color or shade of skin they have, and no matter what beliefs they have?

Every person who holds a position or view has something to say about the opposing view. Its not just the Baha’is but part of human nature.

Let’s focus instead on points of agreement and that which unites us. There is plenty of common ground for us to share and enable us to work towards the betterment of all.