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What does your religion say about rape/sexual assault?

arthra

Baha'i
In the Baha'i Faith the Universal House of Justice addressed the issue of rape ..

One of the most heinous of sexual offences is the crime of rape. When a believer is a victim, she is entitled to the loving aid and support of the members of her community, and she is free to initiate action against the perpetrator under the law of the land should she wish to do so. If she becomes pregnant as a consequence of this assault, no pressure should be brought upon her by the Bahá'í institutions to marry. As to whether she should continue or terminate the pregnancy, it is for her to decide on the course of action she should follow, taking into consideration medical and other relevant factors, and in the light of the Bahá'í Teachings. If she gives birth to a child as a result of the rape, it is left to her discretion whether to seek financial support for the maintenance of the child from the father; however, his claim to any parental rights would, under Bahá'í law, be called into question, in view of the circumstances.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1992, Violence and Sexual Abuse of Women and Children)
 

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
You're being purposely stupid.

Translation: You're quoting directly from the Bible and daring me to condemn its divinely-sanctioned barbarity.

The cases provided in Scripture is clearly differentiating between when she is capable of calling for help (in town) and when she isn't capable of calling for help (in the field). If this were not so, there would be no need for two separate but otherwise similar cases.

Clearly, the scripture assumes that a woman cannot possibly get raped in town. She can only claim to have been raped, correct?

A case where she isn't capable of calling for help in the city, is no different than a case of where she isn't capable of calling for help in the field.

Yet (as you've already conceded) the Bible insists that there is a difference between the two scenarios.

...

All I know is that I'm much happier with my befuddled, subjective, secular morality that tells me it's just plain wrong to blame the victim of a rape (to say nothing of killing her afterwards as a measure of "justice").
 

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
It is a mortal sin and is evil:

"2356 Rape is the forcible violation of the sexual intimacy of another person. It does injury to justice and charity. Rape deeply wounds the respect, freedom, and physical and moral integrity to which every person has a right. It causes grave damage that can mark the victim for life. It is always an intrinsically evil act. Graver still is the rape of children committed by parents (incest) or those responsible for the education of the children entrusted to them." - Catechism of the Catholic Church

Q. - Does the Bible trump the Catechism of the Catholic Church, or is it the other way 'round?

Because the Bible really only treats rape as an evil if a man's property rights are violated. If the woman in question isn't betrothed or married ... God apparently thinks a small fine and a shotgun marriage squares the ledger.

<<<halfhearted cheers>>>

Q - So how did you two meet, anyway? A bar? A dating website?
happy-couples.jpg

A. - No. He raped me and paid my dad twenty ounces of silver!

...

Meanwhile, since rape is always "an intrinsically evil act" what are we to make of it when God reveals his divine instructions for how to go about raping a female captive? What does the catechism have to offer on this subject?
 
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Tumah

Veteran Member
Translation: You're quoting directly from the Bible and daring me to condemn its divinely-sanctioned barbarity.
No. I'm saying you're actually acting stupid. Like literally dumb. Not metaphorically. I'm not sure if its purposeful though.

Clearly, the scripture assumes that a woman cannot possibly get raped in town. She can only claim to have been raped, correct?
The Scriptures makes not mention of whether her claim was honest or not. It only discusses the situation she was actually in. Does it seem logical to say that a woman can't be raped in a town. The contrast the verses are making is in the ability of the woman to get help and her exercising that ability. In verse 24 it says that she is killed because "she did not yell" and in verse 27 it says "she yelled" but no one was around to help her. The town vs the field are just examples of instances where help is more readily available because of population vs where help is less readily available.
You're not being intellectually honest. Or you have no choice in the matter.
Yet (as you've already conceded) the Bible insists that there is a difference between the two scenarios.
Yes as I've explained above.
All I know is that I'm much happier with my befuddled, subjective, secular morality that tells me it's just plain wrong to blame the victim of a rape (to say nothing of killing her afterwards as a measure of "justice").
Befuddled indeed.
 

NulliuSINverba

Active Member
No. I'm saying you're actually acting stupid.

Where are the forum monitors when you need 'em?

Like literally dumb. Not metaphorically. I'm not sure if its purposeful though.

In this case, wouldn't "it's" be the proper form? Why employ the possessive?

The Scriptures makes not mention of whether her claim was honest or not. It only discusses the situation she was actually in.

Situation She Finds Herself In: Raped in town.
God's Verdict: Stone her.

Does it seem logical to say that a woman can't be raped in a town.

Isn't that exactly what the Bible is saying?

The contrast the verses are making is in the ability of the woman to get help and her exercising that ability.

Yet the verse that proscribes death to the victim of a rape if it happens to occur in town makes no mention of any mitigating factors. All it says is that a woman who gets raped in town should be stoned to death.

In verse 24 it says that she is killed because "she did not yell" and in verse 27 it says "she yelled" but no one was around to help her.

So clearly, a woman who is about to be raped in town should scream bloody murder or risk enduring her own bloody murder via stoning after she's been raped?

The town vs the field are just examples of instances where help is more readily available because of population vs where help is less readily available.
You're not being intellectually honest.

I am simply reading the letter of the law. Meanwhile, you're in the awkward position of having to defend the stoning of rape victims. Have fun.

Or you have no choice in the matter.

I have a choice, and I've already exercised it: I disregard the Bible as a barbarous document. Anyone who cares to cite it as a source of "objective" morality has forfeited some portion of their own humanity and earned my abiding distrust.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Where are the forum monitors when you need 'em?

In this case, wouldn't "it's" be the proper form? Why employ the possessive?



Situation She Finds Herself In: Raped in town.
God's Verdict: Stone her.



Isn't that exactly what the Bible is saying?



Yet the verse that proscribes death to the victim of a rape if it happens to occur in town makes no mention of any mitigating factors. All it says is that a woman who gets raped in town should be stoned to death.



So clearly, a woman who is about to be raped in town should scream bloody murder or risk enduring her own bloody murder via stoning after she's been raped?



I am simply reading the letter of the law. Meanwhile, you're in the awkward position of having to defend the stoning of rape victims. Have fun.



I have a choice, and I've already exercised it: I disregard the Bible as a barbarous document. Anyone who cares to cite it as a source of "objective" morality has forfeited some portion of their own humanity and earned my abiding distrust.
I've already answered all your questions here and now you're just recycling them.
Reading the text hyper-literally is not an argument that will score you any points. No one is bound to such an interpretation, nor is there any compelling reason to believe that the author intended it to be read in such a manner. So essentially you're just forcing an argument because you want to.
When you can differentiate between examples and specific instances, let me know and I'll come back and resume this debate with you.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Bumping this thread as I missed it at the time (graduating from university and all!).

I find this topic to be of interest as a person who has studied legal history, with reference to how understanding of the nature and gravity of rape as a crime has developed over time.

St.Frank has done a good job of describing the contemporary moral doctrine pertaining to the crime of rape in Catholic theology, so I thought I would provide some historical backdrop as to how the Church actually came to this understanding.

The first ecclesiastical document in which 'rape' is defined as a gravely evil act is the so-called Didache or "Teaching of the Twelve Apostles", the earliest orthodox Christian catechism summarising morals, beliefs, rituals and practices for new converts to the Faith. The Catholic Church has included the Didache in a volume of early works named The Apostolic Fathers Collection, these Fathers being the oldest and therefore most authoritative witnesses to the Sacred Tradition derived from the preaching of the Apostles.

In this important text, which the modern Catechism references liberally in its footnotes, we find certain gravely immoral deeds described as the hallmarks of the "Way of Death" that leads to perdition, set against the "Way of Life" that leads to salvation in Christ. Rape is one of the acts comprising the "way of death":

"...And the way of death is this: First of all it is evil and accursed: murders, adultery, lust, fornication, thefts, idolatries, magic arts, witchcrafts, rape, false witness...pursuing revenge, not pitying a poor man, not laboring for the afflicted, not knowing Him Who made them, murderers of children, destroyers of the handiwork of God, turning away from him who is in want, afflicting him who is distressed, advocates of the rich, lawless judges of the poor, utter sinners. Be delivered, children, from all these..."

- The Didache (The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations), AD 40-100


Under Roman Law of the time 'rape' was viewed not as sexual abuse of a person so much as a property offence against the spouse or father of the female victim. Following the complete Christianization of the Roman Empire in the 6th century, Emperor Justinian I changed the legal definition of "raptus" [rape] to one which extended beyond mere property 'abduction' to signify a sexual assault against women as legal persons: although he limited this definition to unmarried women, virgins and widows. This Christian Emperor therefore re-defined 'rape' as a sexual offence meriting the death penalty in his Code rather than a property offence.

In the medieval period, with the revival of the Justinian law code, the Decretists (canon lawyers) led by Gratian (1150) in his Decretum, further elucidated and refined this definition of rape to make it the standard one in the ecclesiastical courts, replacing older ideas of it as a property crime.

From a historian:

Defining Rape: Emerging Obligations for States Under International Law? - Maria Eriksson - Google Books

"...In the 12th century the ecclesiastic legislators were the first to recognise the victim as an independent legal person, without reference to her social rank or guardian. The principle of personal responsibility was embraced by the church. Secular and ecclesiastic legislators began to concurrently transform legal conceptions of sexual violence. Rape was defined as a crime against the person rather than against property. This was notable in the revision of the ancient laws of Rome by Gratian, who in his collection of canon law Decretum separated crimes of property from offences against the person. Rape was defined as "unlawful coitus, related to sexual corruption". Four elements of rape gradually evolved: abduction, coitus, violence and a lack of free consent on the part of the woman. A burgeoning view of the woman's autonomy therefore became evident, together with the concept of the individual possession of rights regardless of social status. According to Brundage, medieval canon law played a central role in shaping laws on sexuality in Western countries..."
From another historian:

Law, Person, and Community: Philosophical, Theological, and Comparative ... - John J. Coughlin - Google Books

"...The twelfth-century canonists without exception insisted that in order for consent to marriage to be valid, the consent could not be coerced or forced...[Gratian] held that consummation of a marriage that was forced rendered a marriage invalid. This led to the teaching that...the consummation must be freely willed by each of the spouses. For Gratian rape (raptus) was the abduction of a woman or intercourse with her against her will. A woman who engaged in sexual contact with a man through force was not guilty of either fornication or adultery since she had not willingly participated, but was a victim of molestation...The principle that the marriage contract requires the free consent of the parties became a fundamental element of the church's understanding of marriage in contrast to then prevalent societal views. The focus on consent reflected Huguccio's insight that located the origin of natural law in the human person..."
While this seems quite 'modern' to our eyes and certainly was vastly in advance of anything in other legal systems of the period and before, there are two important caveats: marital 'rape' and 'prostitutes' did not fall under the canon law definition of raptus in this early phase. It was not thought that a woman who had freely consented to marriage could be raped by her own husband, which is of course nonsense to the modern mind but was not back then. So while canon law was progressive (for the time) in this regard it is also grievously defective from the vantage point of people a thousand years later looking back at the 1150 decretals pertaining to rape.

As the secular understanding gradually (and I mean until recently) grew to encompass marital rape, the canon law understanding developed with it to eventually encompass this as well.

The important thing, however and irrespective of the obvious defects of medieval canon law, is that the Catholic Church recognised rape as a sexual offence against the integrity and sacredness of the body of a non-consenting woman as opposed to a property offence, making the canon law definition superior and closer to modernity than any other I know of from that period (Ie Roman, Islamic, Jewish etc.).

The dramatic impact of this legal transformation in the definition of 'raptus' can be seen from the case of medieval Scandinavia:

The church changed the perception of rape | ScienceNordic

Helle Møller Sigh, a researcher at the Department of Culture and Society at Aarhus University, has studied the Danish versions of the Norse Laws, which were written down between the 1170s and the 1240s.

“We’re seeing a change in the legislation, in which rape goes from being a violation against the household – the woman’s husband or her father – to being listed as a separate crime which violates the woman,” she says.

“This is in no small way due to the influence of the Catholic Church, which wanted to create a peaceful and civilised society and help the weak, including women.”

The underlying impetus for this legal change is explained by the legal historian Tierney as stemming from the emerging concept of individual rights in medieval corporation law. He argues that between the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, canonists and decretalists “worked out a series of definitions of ius naturale (natural law) as subjective right”. A characteristic example is the Quodlibeta of Henry of Ghent (1217-1283), a Master of Paris University, in which he concerned himself with the moral dilemma of a criminal sentenced to death, asking whether he should be allowed the right to preserve his own life by escaping from it. After weighing both options, Henry opines that while the judge does have the power to use the body of the criminal to deliver the sentence, the criminal has a superior natural law right of ownership over his own body and is consequently morally obliged to evade judgement if it be within his power:

“Only the soul under God has power as regards property in the substance of the body” [1]

Many legal historians argue that this doctrinal belief, that only the human person himself or herself has ultimate ownership over their own body and has innate 'natural rights' as an individual, is the origin of later concepts relating to 'human rights' that would emerge fully only in the 20th century.

These concepts were applied to the rape of women and transformed understandings of its legal definition. It led to the pre-eminent importance of "consent" in Catholic moral theology and this eventually translated into the importance of this concept in Western culture as a whole.

[1] Henry of Ghent, Quodlibet IX, q. 3, 309 quoted in Makinen, V., Korkmann, P. Transformations in Medieval and Early-Modern Rights Discourse (Dordrecht, 2006) p. 182
 
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MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Outstanding scholarship, Vouthon. Context context and more context. I so appreciate your contribution to the topic. xoxo
 
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