HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
They’re people, who happen to be gay or transgender.
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What does your Religion think about Gay and Transgender People?
- Thread starter Serpent Child
- Start date
arthra
Baha'i
The latest guidance I am aware of on the subject follows:
As to whether a Bahá’í who is a transsexual could undergo sex-change surgery and maintain his or her administrative rights, the Universal House of Justice has clarified that, “If ... [the] medical opinion advises a change of sex, and the individual concerned decides to accept the advice given, no administrative sanction should be imposed by Bahá’í institutions on that individual” (extract 4).
With regard to whether or not the Bahá’í institutions recognize the change of gender, extracts 1, 2, 6 and 7 suggest that the institutions recognize the change when it has been “officially registered” (extract 1) and when they receive “documentary evidence, both medical and civil,” stating what the individual’s sex is (extract 2).
Marriage
As to the question concerning marriage following a sex-change operation, the Universal House of Justice indicates that, “If a Bahá’í has had surgery and a change of sex has been registered officially on the birth certificate or otherwise, marriage is permissible to a person of the sex opposite to that which is officially registered” (extract 1).
Transsexuality
Generally Baha'is believe sexual relationships should be confined to marriage and our Baha'i marriages have unique features that are different from civil laws in most places.
Our communities have an elected administration or Assembly for each area where there are a minimum of nine believers... Lets say for instance there is a family that has a transgender child or youth. They are free to approach the Assembly and consult on the issues confidentially... Each person is treated as a unique case... and for us that means each believer has unique characteristics and issues by virtue of their life experiences. The Assembly may after a consult suggest the family or person also avail themselves with therapeutic services in their community. We also respect the rights of each believer in the community where they live.
It occurred to me that I had not discussed the Baha'i attitude re. homosexuality. I think a good summary with citations can be found in a Wikipedia article as follows:
The Bahá'í Faith teaches that the only acceptable form of sexual expression is within marriage, and Bahá'í marriage is defined in the religion's texts as exclusively between one man and one woman.[1][2][3] Bahá'ís stress the importance of absolute chastity for any unmarried person,[4] and focus on personal restraint. The Bahá'í Faith, however, leaves the application of laws of social conduct largely up to the individual, and Bahá'ís do not advocate for or discriminate against homosexual people.[5]
While in authoritative teachings homosexuality is described as a condition that an individual should control and overcome,[6] Bahá'ís are left to apply the teachings at their own discretion, and are discouraged from singling out homosexuality over other transgressions, such as the consumption of alcohol, or heterosexual promiscuity.[7] Membership in the Bahá'í community is therefore open to lesbian and gay adherents.[8][9][10][11]
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Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
My religion and me personaly regard that as evil sin.
My Lord said: O You who believes, follow not the footsteps of Satan.
I believe a person who is into homosexual activities or transgenderism is following the footsteps of the devil.
Liu
Well-Known Member
Regarding Hinduism, I never was in India, and so I may be prejudiced about this.
But if I'd visit an Indian village and the people would come to know that I'm a transguy, I'd rather expect to get lynched than get honored for it.
There certainly are societies where it would be even more problematic, though.
The majority of transsexuals are hetero regarding the sex they were assigned as at birth (and homo regarding the gender they identify as). (Edit: Confused something, now it should be correct)
Also, what about people who get their gender change officially registered but have no surgery, or only surgery of the secondary sexual characteristics? That's pretty common.
But if I'd visit an Indian village and the people would come to know that I'm a transguy, I'd rather expect to get lynched than get honored for it.
There certainly are societies where it would be even more problematic, though.
What would happen if a transsexual is already married before?
The majority of transsexuals are hetero regarding the sex they were assigned as at birth (and homo regarding the gender they identify as). (Edit: Confused something, now it should be correct)
Also, what about people who get their gender change officially registered but have no surgery, or only surgery of the secondary sexual characteristics? That's pretty common.
Lol, for once you're right
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As a Setian/Satanist and member of the Order of the Serpent I personally support LGBTQ folks. A person is what they are in spirit and their sexuality and should embrace and rejoice in their true being. I have had plenty of gay friends over the years and have found 99.9% of them to be some of the most honest, trustworthy, non-judgmental, intelligent, hard working people, and loyal friends.
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The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Chill, man. Servant was just responding to the OP.
The sexual orientation of another is not for me to judge.
But here is a relevant article: Religion and LGBT people - Wikipedia
But here is a relevant article: Religion and LGBT people - Wikipedia
They are not treated well in current Hindu society ( British protestant legacy and impact of Islam). But in Hinduism there is nothing I can see that says they should not be. The only thing I could find was that ultra conservative Manu smriti recommends punishing underage male teenage students for having sex with each other while they are studying under a teacher in a gurukul ( old institutes of Vedic learning). That could have been for many reasons (ragging was always a concern). There is also strict prohibitions on those same students on having an affair with teacher''s wives. Apparently that was a concern too. Clearly dealing with adolescent boys is not a strong suite in the ancient world.
Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
To tell you the truth, a persons sexual orientation or gender identity may at times be a curiosity to me, but for the most part it is a non-issue to me and has nothing to do with how I might feel about that person as a fellow human being be them heterosexual, homosexual, whatever.
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VioletVortex
Well-Known Member
Homosexuality and transgenderism are not inherently considered heretic in Heathenry, however, many of us attempt to approximate the views of the ancient Germans and Norse as accurately as possible. Now, most of these people don't agree on a mortal level, but they are against homosexuality as the ancient Pagans were. Gay sex was punishable by death, at least in Germanic society. The Romans didn't mind it as much. Lesbian sex wasn't really worried about in the ancient times. Transgenderism is a modern construct, so the ancient beliefs do not have much to say there.
Most Heathens and Pagans in general, myself included, acknowledge that homosexuality is natural, and don't have anything against it. I don't care about transgenderism. The government shouldn't use tax money to pay for cosmetic surgeries, though.
Most Heathens and Pagans in general, myself included, acknowledge that homosexuality is natural, and don't have anything against it. I don't care about transgenderism. The government shouldn't use tax money to pay for cosmetic surgeries, though.
Liu
Well-Known Member
While I agree on your stance regarding the role of homosexuality and transgenderism in Germanic society, there are some myths and sagas that seem to show them in a slightly more positive light (or in the case of transgenderism, mentioning them at all).
For example, I once heard about a saga in which the main character is a woman who inherits a kingdom and from then on takes on a male name etc. and is also referred to with male pronouns throughout the rest of the text.
Then there are all those stories of Loki and the 4 children he gave birth to.
And I also once read that Odin could be considered slightly queer due to the fact that he practices seiðr, i.e. women's magic.
But all those cases are of course not that good examples, I can't think of anything in Germanic mythology that would be a clear case of transgenderism in the way we understand it nowadays.
What exactly do you mean by that? The scientific understanding of it is modern, but the psycho-biological phenomenon certainly isn't. Transgenderism is probably inheritable (at least the statistics show some correlation) and genetic, so it's unlikely that the genetic changes that cause it would have only appeared in modernity. It's rather that people can be much more open about it and actually get treatments now. I assume most transpeople in past centuries didn't even have a clue what it is that they have.
It's a bit difficult to decide what surgeries are cosmetic, and what are necessary psychologically - it depends on the transperson in question. For example, here certain kinds of cosmetic treatments (e.g. epilation or the costs of a wig) might get paid by health insurance for trans women if their psychologist determines it to be helpful for their mental health. Dunno of any purely cosmetic changes for trans guys like me, though, which would get paid - or would you consider chest surgeries to be cosmetic?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I think it's nonsensical to have an umbrella term which covers all those people. It's like saying FDBPS (Firemen, Dwarves, Bikers, Pediatricians, and Short People). Apart from that, I try to judge everybody on an individual basis, whatever their surface traits.
SaintNerevar
New Member
As far as I can tell, Homosexuality itself goes against no teachings of ALMSIVI, but certain acts have been expressly forbidden, specifically within the Sermons of Lord Vivec. I shall place the relevant quotes in spoiler tags to be safe regarding the Disturbing Content rule.
From Sermon Thirty-Three:
From Sermon Fourteen:
The Sermons do not make distinction between an individual's orientation (homosexual, heterosexual, etc), but disallow the acts entirely. So homosexuality itself is viewed as not unacceptable, as long as one chooses their acts carefully and in accordance of the Tribunal's teachings.
As for transgenderism, I am unsure exactly of the status in the Tribunal of this, but Lord Vivec themself is multi-gendered so I can't imagine it being a problem.
From Sermon Thirty-Three:
"The practice of piercing the Second Aperture is now forbidden."
This is commonly read as disallowing the practice of Anal Sex.
This is commonly read as disallowing the practice of Anal Sex.
From Sermon Fourteen:
"Vivec bit new words onto ... [Molag Bal's Spear] ... This has since become a forbidden ritual, though people still practice it in secret."
This verse is commonly read as disallowing the practice of Oral Sex.
This verse is commonly read as disallowing the practice of Oral Sex.
The Sermons do not make distinction between an individual's orientation (homosexual, heterosexual, etc), but disallow the acts entirely. So homosexuality itself is viewed as not unacceptable, as long as one chooses their acts carefully and in accordance of the Tribunal's teachings.
As for transgenderism, I am unsure exactly of the status in the Tribunal of this, but Lord Vivec themself is multi-gendered so I can't imagine it being a problem.
I'm not UU, but on a personal level agree with this