What even is possession?

[Kapalika]

I dunno what people even mean when they talk about possession. Some (say christians) differentiate between "demonic oppression" and "demonic possession" and some (say pagans) liken it to a rape-tastic version of a spiritual communion. Some say it's when they take you over or when they get in you and talk through you.

I've been accused of being oppressed, possessed all of it. One time some guy actually tried to "cast demons out" of me without my consent which was hilariously ineffectual. I've had people say prayers at me everything tell me I'm gonna go to hell and that I'm doomed. It's been almost 10 years now since people have told me this. I seem okay, for the most part (at least on the spirits in me kind of deal).

Anyways I seem, to in my language, not differentiate between possession and communion. There are lines and boundaries and it isn't hard with the right tools (mental or symbolic) to "shut off" that part of your brain experiencing the phenomena goes past those limits you are comfortable with. This is pretty normal magical techniques people are taught to prevent, well, going a bit bonkers. Seems rewiring your brain and/or forcing your body/brain to release certain chemicals can really go bad if you done goof on it. Weird.

Maybe that's a little abtruse so another way to say it, is that it's my position that since all spiritual phenomena originate from and is experienced by consciousness and not some kind of ethereal meta-physical substance that the difference of communion, spirit interaction and possession are not inherent but situational.

I would differentiate spirit interaction from communion/possession, however, since the latter is a kind of "melding" and the former is more of just communication but even for me the lines between them become fuzzy. I would glady say, sure, I've been possessed before. It was fun, I think communion is fun. It's just a difference of how it's experienced, for me.

Someone who believes that spirits are "real" and live outside of us will of course have a different view, since they are treating spirits as if they are animals running around. Now, I'm not saying spirits don't exist, I'm just saying they are not physical. To me, them being astral, meta-physical or ethereal or whatever is just saying they are another kind of physical. Substance is still substance which means it can be detected by physical phenomena, which hasn't happened so far (given it was critically examined).

So uh, ya. That's why I think possession is kind of, just whatever. What do you think?

 

[SalixIncendium]

In my view, possession is an influence that changes one's inherent behavior.

I was possessed for many years and as a result of that possession I suffered mood swings, anger issues, financial difficulties, and depression.

A divorce fixed all of that.

 

[Kapalika]

In my view, possession is an influence that changes one's inherent behavior.

By this definition I am possessed every single time I do any magic. Or am hungry. Or just ate a wonderful meal. Or am around people.

We are constantly influenced, so how are we defining inherent?

I was possessed for many years and as a result of that possession I suffered mood swings, anger issues, financial difficulties, and depression.

Harsh.

 

[SalixIncendium]

By this definition I am possessed every single time I do any magic. Or am hungry. Or just ate a wonderful meal. Or am around people.

We are constantly influenced, so how are we defining inherent?.

I'm defining inherent as a permanence of personal character without a defining external influence.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

In my view, possession is an influence that changes one's inherent behavior.

I was possessed for many years and as a result of that possession I suffered mood swings, anger issues, financial difficulties, and depression.

A divorce fixed all of that.

After my divorce, you might say I was dispossessed. But then I got married again...repossessed...

 

[Brickjectivity]

I dunno what people even mean when they talk about possession. Some (say christians) differentiate between "demonic oppression" and "demonic possession" and some (say pagans) liken it to a rape-tastic version of a spiritual communion. Some say it's when they take you over or when they get in you and talk through you.

I've been accused of being oppressed, possessed all of it. One time some guy actually tried to "cast demons out" of me without my consent which was hilariously ineffectual. I've had people say prayers at me everything tell me I'm gonna go to hell and that I'm doomed. It's been almost 10 years now since people have told me this. I seem okay, for the most part (at least on the spirits in me kind of deal).

Anyways I seem, to in my language, not differentiate between possession and communion. There are lines and boundaries and it isn't hard with the right tools (mental or symbolic) to "shut off" that part of your brain experiencing the phenomena goes past those limits you are comfortable with. This is pretty normal magical techniques people are taught to prevent, well, going a bit bonkers. Seems rewiring your brain and/or forcing your body/brain to release certain chemicals can really go bad if you done goof on it. Weird.

Maybe that's a little abtruse so another way to say it, is that it's my position that since all spiritual phenomena originate from and is experienced by consciousness and not some kind of ethereal meta-physical substance that the difference of communion, spirit interaction and possession are not inherent but situational.

I would differentiate spirit interaction from communion/possession, however, since the latter is a kind of "melding" and the former is more of just communication but even for me the lines between them become fuzzy. I would glady say, sure, I've been possessed before. It was fun, I think communion is fun. It's just a difference of how it's experienced, for me.

Someone who believes that spirits are "real" and live outside of us will of course have a different view, since they are treating spirits as if they are animals running around. Now, I'm not saying spirits don't exist, I'm just saying they are not physical. To me, them being astral, meta-physical or ethereal or whatever is just saying they are another kind of physical. Substance is still substance which means it can be detected by physical phenomena, which hasn't happened so far (given it was critically examined).

So uh, ya. That's why I think possession is kind of, just whatever. What do you think?

These authors are among those mainly responsible for the irresponsible modern craze called exorcism, but I also hold the RC responsible. It recently re-instituted exorcisms:
The Spiritual Man
Smith Wigglesworth on Healing
Kathryn Kuhlman

In my opinion, when you say exorcism you are talking about excising roaming spirits. Anything else should not be called exorcism as it props up an old bark that ought to be sunk. Mental patients working through their problems are not possessed by demons. They are not oppressed by demons. They are oppressed by mental issues. They may have an allergy, a physical parasite or a chemical imbalance but not a demon. They may hallucinate or talk to invisible people, but these are not demons. The above writers with their vicious deceptive practices are proof enough to me of that. Suffering exists, and it can be mental. That is all.

What of mentions of demons leaving pigs in the gospel of Mark? Such a passage deserves due consideration by those who have mastered themselves and who are dedicated; but its not proof of disembodied spirits. Just like people today, people in the past have figures of speech. Political opinions are considered to be demons, because they can spread and influence. Anything that happens that changes the mind, causes sneezing or is contagious is called a demon in ancient times but should not be called that in modern times. We do not have demons but ideas. We do not have demons but viruses. We do not have demons but we have mental issues. It is more specific and therefore better language and better yet does not cause more problems.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

as a more serious response, I have not personally experienced a "possession" although I know several people who have experienced what they call possessions. For the most part, I believe them, but I really don't know what those experiences "mean" in terms of reality. One friend thinks of ideas as spirits, and he will test them thoroughly before accepting them...he describes this as being possessed by the idea.

 

[Kapalika]

I'm defining inherent as a permanence of personal character without a defining external influence.

Ah, okay. Well then I guess magic is the only one that would qualify as having "possession" like qualities. At least how I practice it, it's meant to bring on permanent changes in personality and character.

Heck, that'd work out since I often work with archetypes I want to be more like, and archetypes are just one step removed from spirits and deities... funny that in my signature it says that individual and Shiva are one... I play roulette between forms of Satan, Kali and Shiva... maybe I am possessed lol. No but really. I'm just me. Who's them. Who's me and everyone else too.

After my divorce, you might say I was dispossessed. But then I got married again...repossessed...

What the heck is with everyone today? lol

What of mentions of demons leaving pigs in the gospel of Mark? Such a passage deserves due consideration by those who have mastered themselves and who are dedicated; but its not proof of disembodied spirits.

There's no proof any of that stuff happened, I'd rather say. I don't consider the christian bible to be a reliable source.

as a more serious response, I have not personally experienced a "possession" although I know several people who have experienced what they call possessions. For the most part, I believe them, but I really don't know what those experiences "mean" in terms of reality. One friend thinks of ideas as spirits, and he will test them thoroughly before accepting them...he describes this as being possessed by the idea.

Become the idea, to know the idea. Hm.... that sounds familiar.

 

[Muffled]

I believe possession is what true Christianity is all about. A person with the Paraclete is possessed by God. Demonic possession means that the spirit of a demon has replaced your spirit. Another possibility is that a non-demonic spirit could inhabit for a while. That spirit will only be as good or bad as it was in life.

Communion with spirits is forbidden in Jewish law but it probably is no worse than listening to what living people have to say as long as one does not think the voices should be obeyed or that they are wiser than anyone else.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

What the heck is with everyone today? lol

This is me most days But I don't actually say things outloud...or outprint...

Become the idea, to know the idea. Hm.... that sounds familiar.

IDK. I mean, he would consider and study the idea--know it in detail--before he'd allow it to become part of 'him.' So he'd know the idea before he would become the idea.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Some (say christians) differentiate between "demonic oppression" and "demonic possession"

I personally do not believe is the "demon possession". A lot of the times the exorcisms are actually acted out to scare other christians or to even scare the non christians to come running to christ.

 

[Kapalika]

I believe possession is what true Christianity is all about. A person with the Paraclete is possessed by God. Demonic possession means that the spirit of a demon has replaced your spirit. Another possibility is that a non-demonic spirit could inhabit for a while. That spirit will only be as good or bad as it was in life.

Communion with spirits is forbidden in Jewish law but it probably is no worse than listening to what living people have to say as long as one does not think the voices should be obeyed or that they are wiser than anyone else.

Interesting! I hadn't seen that perspective before.

I personally do not believe is the "demon possession". A lot of the times the exorcisms are actually acted out to scare other christians or to even scare the non christians to come running to christ.

Well I don't either, at least in how people usually mean it as I outlined in my first post. I do agree that some use them to scare people. I've seen a Church in my area do that claiming anything from addiction to mental illness is caused by demons. But then I've known churches that are very skeptical of anyone who's said to be possessed preferring explanations of mental health or even just chalking it up to the person having issues due to sin.

 

[Brickjectivity]

...There's no proof any of that stuff happened, I'd rather say. I don't consider the christian bible to be a reliable source....

Translations and culture-relative readings of the Bible are the source from which modern culture gets ideas about exorcism. If you are talking about exorcisms without reference the Bible, then just use modern terms like ideas, diseases, viruses, multiple personalities, hallucinations, political opinions etc.

 

[Liu]

I'd say there are two types of possession: Intentional and not intentional.

If intentional, then it's basically an indefinite invocation. In other words, keeping up a connection to a spiritual entity outside of a ritual context and allowing them to further influence oneself.

If not intentional, then it's a spiritual entity, or a part of one's subconscious, or a combination thereof, influencing one's conscious mind and forcing one to specific behavious different from what one wants (or believes oneself to want). Seems to happen most commonly to people of religions that forbid even intentional invocations of those entities.

Not really any personal experiences here either, so only theoretical.
I'd argue that pretty much every devotee of a deity does a very subtle form of the intentional version subconsciously. But I wouldn't really call it possession if one doesn't actually perceive that deity as a personified entity within oneself.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I've been accused of being oppressed, possessed all of it. One time some guy actually tried to "cast demons out" of me without my consent which was hilariously ineffectual. I've had people say prayers at me everything tell me I'm gonna go to hell and that I'm doomed. It's been almost 10 years now since people have told me this. I seem okay, for the most part (at least on the spirits in me kind of deal).

It's super-maddening when you're a Christian and other Christians do that to you.

I personally do not believe is the "demon possession". A lot of the times the exorcisms are actually acted out to scare other christians or to even scare the non christians to come running to christ.

Yes, they're usually done by people who liked the movie WAAAAAAAAY too much.

 

[sun rise]

...
Someone who believes that spirits are "real" and live outside of us will of course have a different view, since they are treating spirits as if they are animals running around. Now, I'm not saying spirits don't exist, I'm just saying they are not physical. To me, them being astral, meta-physical or ethereal or whatever is just saying they are another kind of physical. Substance is still substance which means it can be detected by physical phenomena, which hasn't happened so far (given it was critically examined).

So uh, ya. That's why I think possession is kind of, just whatever. What do you think?

My understanding is that some astral beings strongly desire to have some bodily experiences. So that one might, for example, try to enter someone to convince him to get drunk so they can try to enjoy that experience.

Most people are not susceptible but astral travel, high fevers, drug use and perhaps other things "open the door" as it were.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Well I don't either, at least in how people usually mean it as I outlined in my first post. I do agree that some use them to scare people. I've seen a Church in my area do that claiming anything from addiction to mental illness is caused by demons. But then I've known churches that are very skeptical of anyone who's said to be possessed preferring explanations of mental health or even just chalking it up to the person having issues due to sin.

A mental illness is not caused my demons. A jesus follower who says that is just saying a bunch of nonsense.
Some even think someone being on heavy drugs is possessed by demon.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

It's super-maddening when you're a Christian and other Christians do that to you.


Yes, they're usually done by people who liked the movie WAAAAAAAAY too much.

Lol probably.

 

[SabahTheLoner]

Most people I’ve talked to liken possession to a state in which you are either partially or fully another consciousness. Most beings don’t possess people unless the vessel is willing, but some will possess others despite an unwillingness to be possessed. The latter causes many problems, but the former is used in many rituals (most notably Voodoo and similar religions) in order to commune with the spirits. I haven’t tried it yet but most people who have done it willingly got positive results. I’m more of a dream-work person and most of my rituals focus on asking the spirit to talk to me in dream-state.

 

[DennisTate]

I dunno what people even mean when they talk about possession. Some (say christians) differentiate between "demonic oppression" and "demonic possession" and some (say pagans) liken it to a rape-tastic version of a spiritual communion. Some say it's when they take you over or when they get in you and talk through you.

I've been accused of being oppressed, possessed all of it. One time some guy actually tried to "cast demons out" of me without my consent which was hilariously ineffectual. I've had people say prayers at me everything tell me I'm gonna go to hell and that I'm doomed. It's been almost 10 years now since people have told me this. I seem okay, for the most part (at least on the spirits in me kind of deal).

Anyways I seem, to in my language, not differentiate between possession and communion. There are lines and boundaries and it isn't hard with the right tools (mental or symbolic) to "shut off" that part of your brain experiencing the phenomena goes past those limits you are comfortable with. This is pretty normal magical techniques people are taught to prevent, well, going a bit bonkers. Seems rewiring your brain and/or forcing your body/brain to release certain chemicals can really go bad if you done goof on it. Weird.

Maybe that's a little abtruse so another way to say it, is that it's my position that since all spiritual phenomena originate from and is experienced by consciousness and not some kind of ethereal meta-physical substance that the difference of communion, spirit interaction and possession are not inherent but situational.

I would differentiate spirit interaction from communion/possession, however, since the latter is a kind of "melding" and the former is more of just communication but even for me the lines between them become fuzzy. I would glady say, sure, I've been possessed before. It was fun, I think communion is fun. It's just a difference of how it's experienced, for me.

Someone who believes that spirits are "real" and live outside of us will of course have a different view, since they are treating spirits as if they are animals running around. Now, I'm not saying spirits don't exist, I'm just saying they are not physical. To me, them being astral, meta-physical or ethereal or whatever is just saying they are another kind of physical. Substance is still substance which means it can be detected by physical phenomena, which hasn't happened so far (given it was critically examined).

So uh, ya. That's why I think possession is kind of, just whatever. What do you think?

What do you personally think of former Atheist Howard Storm's assertion that there is a Legion of former humans out there in a relatively low energetic dimension of space - time......who can attempt to deceive somebody newly deceased...... away from the light into darkness?

Personally... I do believe this is real..... and this sure fits with the book "Hungry Ghosts" by Joe Fischer.

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

.. ...."By this time it was almost complete darkness, and I had the sense that instead of there being twenty or thirty, there were an innumerable host of them. Each one seemed set on coming in for the sport they got from hurting me. My attempts to fight back only provoked greater merriment. They began to physically humiliate me in the most degrading ways. As I continued to fight on and on, I was aware that they weren't in any hurry to win. They were playing with me just as a cat plays with a mouse. Every new assault brought howls of cacophony. Then at some point, they began to tear off pieces of my flesh. To my horror I realized I was being taken apart and eaten alive, slowly, so that their entertainment would last as long a possible. At no time did I ever have any sense that the beings who seduced and attacked me were anything other than human beings. The best way I can describe them is to think of the worst imaginable person stripped of every impulse to do good. Some of them seemed to be able to tell others what to do, but I had no sense of any structure or hierarchy in an organizational sense. They didn't appear to be controlled or directed by anyone. Basically they were a mob of beings totally driven by unbridled cruelty and passions.



During our struggle I noticed that they seemed to feel no pain. Other than that they appeared to possess no special non-human or super-human abilities. Although during my initial experience with them I assumed that they were clothed, in our intimate physical contact I never felt any clothing whatsoever.



Fighting well and hard for a long time, ultimately I was spent. Lying there exhausted amongst them, they began to calm down since I was no longer the amusement that I had been. Most of the beings gave up in disappointment because I was no longer amusing, but a few still picked and gnawed at me and ridiculed me for no longer being any fun. By this time I had been pretty much taken apart. People were still picking at me, occasionally, and I just lay there all torn up, unable to resist.



Exactly what happened was ... and I'm not going to try and explain this. From inside of me I felt a voice, my voice, say, "Pray to God." My mind responded to that, "I don't pray. I don't know how to pray." This is a guy lying on the ground in the darkness surrounded by what appeared to be dozens if not hundreds and hundreds of vicious creatures who had just torn him up. The situation seemed utterly hopeless, and I seemed beyond any possible help whether I believed in God or not. The voice again told me to pray to God. It was a dilemma since I didn't know how. The voice told me a third time to pray to God. I started saying things like, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want ... God bless America" and anything else that seemed to have a religious connotation. And these people went into a frenzy, as if I had thrown boiling oil all over them. They began yelling and screaming at me, telling me to quit, that there was no God, and no one could hear me. While they screamed and yelled obscenities, they also began backing away from me as if I were poison. As they were retreating, they became more rabid, cursing and screaming that what I was saying was worthless and that I was a coward. I screamed back at them, "Our Father who art in heaven," and similar ideas. This continued for some time until, suddenly, I was aware that they had left. It was dark, and I was alone yelling things that sounded churchy. It was pleasing to me that these churchy sayings had such an effect on those awful beings.



Lying there for a long time, I was in such a state of hopelessness, and blackness, and despair, that I had no way of measuring how long it was. I was just lying there in an unknown place all torn and ripped. And I had no strength; it was all gone. It seemed as if I were sort of fading out, that any effort on my part would expend the last energy I had. My conscious sense was that I was perishing, or just sinking into the darkness." (Howard Storm)