What exactly are ghosts?

[Chakra]

Hi everyone,

Ghosts are not talked that much in Hindu stories. I'm not exactly sure, since in other religions demonic/ghost possession are a big topic. Now, what is a ghost as per Hinduism? Our definitions will obviously be different from other religions as we believe in reincarnation.

I've seen two main ideas about ghosts. There is no doubt that some type of ghostly characters are mentioned in our scriptures.

1) A ghost is a soul that is having difficulty reincarnation because something in its previous life is holding it back (love/revenge/sorrow) etc.
2) A ghost is a "bhuta", and is a type of entity found in other realms. They are a type of form that everyone can take.

What are your thoughts on this?

adiyen

 

[George-ananda]

My understanding is that typical ghosts are residents of the densest (closest to the physical) plane of nature. This is generally an unfortunate temporary state of anger, confusion and inability to let go of the past. Eventually they will move on upwards through their own understanding and the assistance of other entities.

But the word 'ghost' is sometimes used in other ways as you describe.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

What are your thoughts on this?

adiyen

Since you ask for thoughts, I think, there are no such things as ghosts. I am 43 and I have not seen the slightest evidence in support of their existence.

They are no more real than Santa Claus (all the arguments one would make against the existence of Santa Claus hold good for ghosts too).

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"axlyz, post: 4351125, member: 54039"]Hi everyone,

Namaste,

I will give my personal (Hindu) perspective.

Ghosts are not talked that much in Hindu stories. I'm not exactly sure, since in other religions demonic/ghost possession are a big topic. Now, what is a ghost as per Hinduism? Our definitions will obviously be different from other religions as we believe in reincarnation.

Yes, not much is talked on Ghosts but Yaksha, Asura, Rakshasa ect are more explained (for adults) as internal negative aspects of our minds, or (for kids) opposing forces that sometimes cause harm or go against the Devas. But these do not have a strong psychological hold on the minds of a average Hindu, unlike the other traditions.

Those Hindus that do believe in Ghosts ect, are generally not evaluating that belief with the theories of Karma and Atman, and the relationship to Samsara and Ishvara. and there are many like this IMO.

1) A ghost is a soul that is having difficulty reincarnation because something in its previous life is holding it back (love/revenge/sorrow) etc.

Where have you heard this story, may I ask

2) A ghost is a "bhuta", and is a type of entity found in other realms. They are a type of form that everyone can take.

I thought "Bhuta" just means Unseen to the physical eye, like the Pancha Bhuta ( 5 elements) that make up our Body? May i ask where this Buta as Ghost idea comes from?

Dhanyavad.

 

[Chakra]

Dear SJ-ji,

The first idea comes from the culture I grew up in. While neither of my parents believe in ghosts, my relatives would often tell me that ghosts are simply atmas who are too attached to the earthly realm.

The second idea comes from various Puranas like the Bhagavatam. If you need specific verses let me know.

Another question that I have is that Mahadeva Shiva is called Bhutanath. What exactly is a Bhuta in this context?

 

[Aupmanyav]

'Bhuta' has many meanings, like elements, past, ghost, as well as coming into existence (abhavat, abhūva as in Sanskrit, root Bhava - happens, takes birth). Ghosts (many categories - Bhoota, Preta, Pishacha, Brahma Rakshasa) in Hinduism are souls which linger in the world (This could be a violent death, unsettled matters in their lives, or simply the failure of their survivors to perform proper funerals - Bhoot (ghost) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia or down-right evil persons who suffer in these yonis because of their karmas. They can get release by performance of correct rituals or listening to names of deities and their stories. Shakini, Dakini, Kakini, Yakshini, etc. are witches and sorceresses.

Bhuta (Sanskrit Dictionary for Spoken Sanskrit): being or being like anything, true, proper, existing, been, fit, become, mixed or joined with, consisting of, past, purified, actually happened, gone, real, present, obtained, great devotee or ascetic, child, son, 14th day of the dark half of the lunar month, that which is or exists, welfare, creature, imp, prosperity, world, well-being, created being, ghost of a deceased person, any living being (divine, human, animal, vegetable), one of the five elements, demon, being, goblin, element, spirit, person.

Another question that I have is that Mahadeva Shiva is called Bhutanath. What exactly is a Bhuta in this context?

Lord Shiva is the only one who (traditionally) can control these spirits and they are part of his ganas (divisions of army). Now do not ask me if Lord Vishnu cannot do it? Sure, Lord Vishnu also can control them, but it is just a matter of division of workload. The ganas of Shiva enthusiastically participated in his marriage with Mother Parvati and greatly frieghtened the Himalaya house-hold causing Mother Parvati's mother to faint. But it was just a prank from the bridegroom's side. Even Lord Shiva came as a pot-bellied ascetic. Later, they assumed a presentable form. As you know, change of form is no problem for them. See Lords Vishnu and Brahma along with other devas attending the marriage of Lord Shiva and Mother Parvati and Himalaya performing the 'kanya-daanam'.

 

[kalyan]

Bhoota/ Bhootam in Sanskrit means that which has existence, anything with a form and name is a bhoota, so everything is a bhoota, so we should not confuse here.

Ghosts generally as far I know some ones trapped in this plane and cannot leave this plane until the grace of Srimannarayana. The people who does suicide or who die forcefully because of something they cant will turn into ghosts...for example they are allotted a life span of 80 years and they does suicide at 40 years, so the Jiva goes as per normal, but it cannot go via the paths mentioned by Krushna in BG, Shukla gati /Krushna Gati, it will be trapped in this plane and to top that , it has to live the rest of the years/more which in this case 40 years trapped and it experiences thirst/hunger but it has no external organs like mouth to enjoy it, so it will roam with so much pain in this plane and it is the worse kind of thing anyone can imagine !

adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy daasa

 

[shivsomashekhar]

With all due respect, we should not set common sense aside and blindly accept all the stories we are told - especially those that are so obviously incorrect.

.... it has to live the rest of the years/more which in this case 40 years trapped and it experiences thirst/hunger but it has no external organs like mouth to enjoy it, so it will roam with so much pain in this plane and it is the worse kind of thing anyone can imagine !

adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy daasa

No external organs? It has no internal organs either (Cremation/burial handles external and internal organs alike). How then can it experience thirst and hunger?

Same with pain. How can it experience pain and also how does it exactly "roam"?

Isn't it obvious that these are made up stories, presumably to discourage suicides? Unfortunately, we Indians have traditionally been steeped in superstition. Most people condition themselves from an early age to accept such stories without questioning.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Shiva, we are talking of beliefs.

 

[kalyan]

With all due respect, we should not set common sense aside and blindly accept all the stories we are told - especially those that are so obviously incorrect.



No external organs? It has no internal organs either (Cremation/burial handles external and internal organs alike). How then can it experience thirst and hunger?

Same with pain. How can it experience pain and also how does it exactly "roam"?

Isn't it obvious that these are made up stories, presumably to discourage suicides? Unfortunately, we Indians have traditionally been steeped in superstition. Most people condition themselves from an early age to accept such stories without questioning.

mr. shiva

No offense but I think you are not well versed with basics of vedas.

The atma/Jiva/I never dies and the body comes and goes depending on Karma, when people say a person passed away, the gross body remains here only, but the Jiva along with subtle body made of 5 subtle elements along with 5 jnana indriyas +manas are taken along. So it will be a subtle body + 5 indriyas+manas +Jiva , so in this subtle body he has the indriyas the ones responsible for taste, touch, sight, smell and hear, these are the actual ones responsible for working of external organs nose,eyes,skin,tongue,ears, so as the body remains here, the external organs will be here only. But the Jiva who does suicide under compulsion will wander without these many many years.....Generally Jivas take some other body immediately based on the path they go, but this is barred for the ones who die compulsively.

This is pure metaphysics and not superstition. Please be aware of the information and then we are in a position to comment on a related topic.

adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy Daasa

 

[Asha]

Namaste

With all due respect, we should not set common sense aside and blindly accept all the stories we are told - especially those that are so obviously incorrect.

I am not Shiva devotee but we were allways told that Shiva ji frequented the charnel grounds out of kindness to give liberation to Bhootas and the un embodied souls that had not gained release.

Please give your definition of this story. or if any Shiva devotee would kindly give this story as it is told amongst Shiva devotees I would be realy glad to hear it.

No external organs? It has no internal organs either (Cremation/burial handles external and internal organs alike). How then can it experience thirst and hunger?

When soul leaves the Body it either takes rebirth or gains a spiritual body in the spiritual realm, but if the soul becomes dissimbodied and remains traped here it is because it is not ready to leave, I think exactly as was said above, like in suicide the soul is traped and confused sometimes because of extreme anger or sorrow. Sometimes for some reason like extreme attatchment to the body or strong desire to remain here or remain in this embodied realm some times because of anger or jealousy the soul canot leave or does not want to leave. In this case the soul is physicaly dissembodied but canot sepperate itself from the thoughts and desiress of this world so it becomes traped sometimes it still thinks that it is embodied and it is angry because it canot touch and see and taste like an embodied being, so of course he can experience thirst and hunger because he is still very desirous, he canot let go of habitual patterns.

This Bhootas can be very troublesome

Same with pain. How can it experience pain and also how does it exactly "roam"?

his pain is mental rather than physical and because he is so confused he is also thinking that he is still him self so he is very confused and his pain is even more.

Isn't it obvious that these are made up stories, presumably to discourage suicides? Unfortunately, we Indians have traditionally been steeped in superstition. Most people condition themselves from an early age to accept such stories without questioning.

No, I dont think so. Some people are very suceptable to seeing and feeling their presence, when you feel ilke this you will know that these are not made up stories or superstitions. I think very material people canot feel this other realm.
and unfortunatly because there are a lot of charlatan people who try to claim that they can contact the dead, people are realy not beliving these things any more.

Jai Shree Krishna

Asha

 

[Aupmanyav]

This is pure metaphysics and not superstition.

I am not Shiva devotee but we were allways told that Shiva ji frequented the charnel grounds out of kindness to give liberation to Bhootas and the un embodied souls that had not gained release.

You see, Asha, Shiva is the Lord of all Bhootas. They are part of his army (Bhoota Ganas). The Regimental heads are known as Vinayakas (Nayak - Chief). Lord Ganesha is the overall Chief (Gana = Army, Ish = Chief). So, Shiva going to Cremation grounds is like a King visiting a regimental Center.
The Ganas: Hooligans of Heaven (Well, Hooligans may not be the right word for Ganas. They may act that way in fun or in a war like the Scots bared their bottoms to their adversaries)

 

[तत्त्वप्रह्व]

Ghosts are not talked that much in Hindu stories.

The bhāgavatham itself presents the story of Gokarṇa and his deceased brother as a preta.

Now, what is a ghost as per Hinduism? Our definitions will obviously be different from other religions as we believe in reincarnation.
I've seen two main ideas about ghosts. There is no doubt that some type of ghostly characters are mentioned in our scriptures.

1) A ghost is a soul that is having difficulty reincarnation because something in its previous life is holding it back (love/revenge/sorrow) etc.
2) A ghost is a "bhuta", and is a type of entity found in other realms. They are a type of form that everyone can take.

Bhūta implies an entity that is devoid of gross physical body. Eko viṣṇurmahadbhūtaṃ pṛthagbhūtānyanekaśaḥ, remember; so we are all bhūtas and Viṣnu is mahadbhūta.

Its usage is also popular as in pañcamahābhūtas. Bhūta gaṇas of certain devas and devis. If you ever happen to visit Dakṣhiṇa Kannaḍa and Udupi districts of Karṇātaka, you can see most of these gaṇas come alive, many of which are considered secondary deities. Many of these are just a show, but there are certain places where these bhūtas do make their presence felt even to the most agnostic.

Its usage amongst bhūta, preta, piśāca, rākṣasa, kūśmāṇḍa etc refers to entities with only sūkṣma śarīra. Akālamṛtyu is one of the primary reasons for such entities to linger on in the physical realm, and can cause problems if vested with sufficient negative emotions. Scriptures are very clear about the transmigration of subtle bodies upon death and depending on the nature of death. Akālamṛtyu is death, whether self inflicted or due to external factors, that is untimely. In this case, the path to pitṛ lokas is unavailable and is therefore forced to dwell in the physical realm. The transmigration itself is the responsibility of various devatas and pitṛs who make available basic necessities of the subtle body. The physical body is merely an amalgamation of five elements and only exhibits the internal capabilities and requirements. Just as a microscope cannot see for itself but can only aid the eye, the latter can only see because of the expression of capability in the subtle body, which is enabled by the causal body, which in turn derives it from the ātmendriya. The causal, subtle, and physical bodies are mere sheaths that limit the internal potencies of the ātman while introducing various causes of duḥḳha - hunger, thirst, aging, death, sorrow and anger. Being jaḍa, they cannot even have a gender, that too is derived from the ātma-svarūpa itself. Since the entity is stuck in this world, and its requirements arising from hunger, thirst, etc can be fulfilled neither here owing to the gross nature of physical realm, and its subtler nature, nor can it proceed to the pitṛ lokās, the entities are usually described as being in great pain, irate, and therefore having harmful tendencies.

Whether possession is real is a question only those that have experienced it firsthand can answer. The rest of us can hold opinions based on non-experience and has to be taken for what its worth. I've seen many people, even those who never had any inclination towards considering the possibility of such a thing, endure "possessions" only to turn into living testimonies of such experiences. More often than not, these people have had some association with the entity that is supposedly causing the problem. As i see it, it is essentially karma that is effectuating the results of their past deeds - bhūta also means the past - the strength of negative emotions of the deceased entity determining the severity of such experiences by the living. As to how to identify the cause and specify that its due to a deceased person, jyothiṣa praśna can reveal that. I've seen the process of ākarṣaṇa and ucchāṭana work without the affected individual even being present at the location of the rite or being aware that such a thing is in progress. I've seen the behavior of a "possessed" individual change drastically exhibiting those of an unknown person; these characteristics and behavior identified by a third party whom the "possessed" has never met. But i doubt that "possession" happens in the way as shown in movies, though the influence of such an entity may well be possible. However, i don't see why it couldn't be just karma itself.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

Namaste

I am not Shiva devotee but we were allways told that Shiva ji frequented the charnel grounds out of kindness to give liberation to Bhootas and the un embodied souls that had not gained release.

Please give your definition of this story. or if any Shiva devotee would kindly give this story as it is told amongst Shiva devotees I would be realy glad to hear it.

In the version I heard, Shiva visited those grounds to keep them entertained and keep them there, so that they won't come into normal areas and torment other beings.

 

[Asha]

Namaste,

In the version I heard, Shiva visited those grounds to keep them entertained and keep them there, so that they won't come into normal areas and torment other beings.

Dosent shiva ji have compassion for them in that he wants to help them gain release ?

 

[spiritualhitchhiker]

Namaste,

Dosent shiva ji have compassion for them in that he wants to help them gain release ?

Namaste,

I think they take birth like that to work out their Karma, after working out their Karma, they may take birth as some other being, when they are born as humans, they have a chance for Moksha.

Dhanyavaad.

 

[Asha]

Namaste Prabhu ji

Namaste,

I think they take birth like that to work out their Karma, after working out their Karma, they may take birth as some other being, when they are born as humans, they have a chance for Moksha.

Dhanyavaad.

I think this is true of regular birth, and to have a regular human birth is definatly a chance to attain higer realisation. But a Bhoota, isnt that more a spirit which is traped between one birth and the next ?
For some reason he is still clinging to the realm he knew and is not ready to leave yet, so in a way yes you could say that there is some strange Karma holding him there. this is why I thought that Shiva ji was trying to help release them ?

Dhanyavaad

 

[Asha]

Namaskara Prabhu ji

Bhoota/ Bhootam in Sanskrit means that which has existence, anything with a form and name is a bhoota, so everything is a bhoota, so we should not confuse here.

Ghosts generally as far I know some ones trapped in this plane and cannot leave this plane until the grace of Srimannarayana. The people who does suicide or who die forcefully because of something they cant will turn into ghosts...for example they are allotted a life span of 80 years and they does suicide at 40 years, so the Jiva goes as per normal, but it cannot go via the paths mentioned by Krushna in BG, Shukla gati /Krushna Gati, it will be trapped in this plane and to top that , it has to live the rest of the years/more which in this case 40 years trapped and it experiences thirst/hunger but it has no external organs like mouth to enjoy it, so it will roam with so much pain in this plane and it is the worse kind of thing anyone can imagine !

adiyen Chinna Jeeyar Swamy daasa

This is very much as we have been taught it, if we imagine this suffering it is realy terrible, we can understand why Hindus are very strict about following funeral rites for the deceased to help their loved ones pass over from this life properly.

 

[Asha]

Namaskara Aupmanyav ji

You see, Asha, Shiva is the Lord of all Bhootas. They are part of his army (Bhoota Ganas). The Regimental heads are known as Vinayakas (Nayak - Chief). Lord Ganesha is the overall Chief (Gana = Army, Ish = Chief). So, Shiva going to Cremation grounds is like a King visiting a regimental Center.
The Ganas: Hooligans of Heaven (Well, Hooligans may not be the right word for Ganas. They may act that way in fun or in a war like the Scots bared their bottoms to their adversaries)

You are joking with me, So what is the use for this Army, what does Shiva ji do with his Army, who or what does he defeat ?

So then by joining the Army of Shiva ji it will be Punnya for the Bhootas, They will then get blessings and release from their bad situation ?

So even Hooligans canget blessings, thats good

 

[Aupmanyav]

Dosent shiva ji have compassion for them in that he wants to help them gain release ?

Do they want release after they join Shiva's army. They are very happy with that. All their constraints have already been removed.

You are joking with me, So what is the use for this Army, what does Shiva ji do with his Army, who or what does he defeat ? So then by joining the Army of Shiva ji it will be Punnya for the Bhootas, They will then get blessings and release from their bad situation ? So even Hooligans canget blessings, thats good

Ashaji, it is no joke. It is a honor to be in Shiva's army. You get to meet the Lord as well as Generals Ganesha, Kartikeya, Nandishwara, etc. On some days even Mother Parvati joins. What does the army do? Practices their craft to be ready when called upon to remove the evil. They are not hooligans.