What exactly is reborn? Hard questions

[themo]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

 

[fosterjonnie]

It’s our soul who was reborn which means we are able to live again but totally different from what we had before, this could be in the form of plant or animals or still human. Am I making my sense?lol:yes::no:

 

[Madhuri]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

Hi

First I want to point out that in Hinduism, the term is 'reincarnated'. 'Rebirth' is actually a Buddhist term with a different definition.

It is the Soul that is reincarnated. The soul is the true self. It is the point of consciousness that is YOU observing existence. It is also the life-force.

The physical body dies but the Self/Soul exists eternally. It is never born/created or dies/destroyed.

As for the second question, I think there are different views about it. Some believe that the soul represents an aspect of the divine (the Marginal Potency) that exists in a neutral state of existence. The journey through life is a means for the soul to go from this neutral state of consciousness to fully Enlightened state.

Another view is that the soul represents an aspect of the Divine that enters the material existence for the sake of drama. This place is a threatre and we are all just actors who have forgotten it isn't real.

These are the two views I am aware of.

 

[nameless]

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

for atman to realize he is atman, that which has never born, died or reborn.

 

[themo]

Madhuri thanks for the answer, you said the "soul" is reincarnated/reborn. By the word "soul" you mean Atman, Jiva, mind or subtle body? What exactly is "soul" ?

for atman to realize he is atman

Since Atman is perfect thus much superior to Maya, why it can`t realize it is Atman?

 

[Riverwolf]

Madhuri thanks for the answer, you said the "soul" is reincarnated/reborn. By the word "soul" you mean Atman, Jiva, mind or subtle body? What exactly is "soul" ?

Atman means "Self." It's essentially what the soul is.

Since Atman is perfect thus much superior to Maya, why it can`t realize it is Atman?

It does know. It's our ego-selves (Jiva) that have forgotten.

 

[Jainarayan]

There is a subtle difference between jiva and atman. Jiva is the living essence of a being; atman is the cosmic self. Two parts of the soul, if you will. For this reason of subtle difference in meaning, they are often interchanged in usage.

The jiva/atman gets caught up in the material world, with its pursuits and desires. The jiva/atman is reborn over and over because it is attached to the material world and its pleasures. Only when the atman realizes it is not of this world, but only in it, can spiritual advancement take place. Then ultimately, liberation (moksha) from the cycle of reincarnation (samsara).

 

[Madhuri]

Madhuri thanks for the answer, you said the "soul" is reincarnated/reborn. By the word "soul" you mean Atman, Jiva, mind or subtle body? What exactly is "soul" ?

Since Atman is perfect thus much superior to Maya, why it can`t realize it is Atman?

The soul refers to the Jiva-Atman.
The soul can realise its Self, which is the end goal of life in the material universe.
I do not think that Atman is superior to Maya, but certainly different. I don't think that any aspect of the Supreme is imperfect, which is why Maya is not imperfect.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

This is what I think,

1) Don't know about the term "reborn", but if you mean re-incarnated the its the Atman that is reincarnated

2) The Atman is not perfect, in the sense as it has to adhere to the Law of Karma of past lives and not just the past 2 or 7 or 3 but the past eternity, because Atman in eternal, the only perfect entity is Ishvara.

hope this helps

 

[themo]

This is what I think,

1) Don't know about the term "reborn", but if you mean re-incarnated the its the Atman that is reincarnated

2) The Atman is not perfect, in the sense as it has to adhere to the Law of Karma of past lives and not just the past 2 or 7 or 3 but the past eternity, because Atman in eternal, the only perfect entity is Ishvara.

hope this helps

What you wrote is directly against any Upanishads which explicitly say again and again that Atman is perfect and Atman is Brahman... Advaitins, vishistadvaitins and even Hare Krishnas accept that, I dont know your school of thought maybe Dvaita?

 

[K.Venugopal]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

Probably an answer would be more forthcoming if we attempt to somewhat start from the beginning(!) Before the beginning there was the undifferentiated, called Brahman. The beginning happened because Brahman decided to play (no joke, in Sanskrit the word "Leela", associated so much with Krishna, indicates this) a game of hide-and-seek (called "Maya"). In this play of the absolute was born the world of duality, where Brahman hid Himself as Atman and Atman had to seek Brahman. (Permit me to put the imagery of hide-and-seek in scientific parlance and say that Brahman, in hiding, involved and Atman, in seeking, is evolving. Let me as an aside mention that Darwin spoke of the theory of evolution but failed to discover the theory of involution. Sri Aurobindo talks about involution in his works.) In truth Brahman and Atman are one and the same, but in this game of Maya the Atman or we, are seeking Brahman. Till we discover Him, we keep being born again and again, evolving each time closer to our goal.

Atman, Jiva, Subtle body, Mind, consciousness, energy etc. all indicate the same thing with subtle differences depending on the circumstances sought to be explained. Man has conceived of Ishwar or God (a different concept from Brahman) as, let us say, Refree - the one who said, Let the Game begin!

Hope I have inter alia answered your questions.

 

[Me Myself]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

1) That which goes beyond name

2) perfection is a mere concept.

 

[chinu]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

Mind.

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

There are three layers over "Atman"
1st: Reason body (In reason zones)
2nd: Subtle body (In subtle zones)
3nd: Hard body (In hard zones ie: earth, or in other similar planets like earth)

Mind is the by product which goes on attaching with atman when passing through these three bodies, ie: Reason body creates reson mind, Subtle body creates subtle mind, Hard body also creates mind -- to which we all call mind in this world.

Until the mind is fully destroyed, we need reborn.

_/\_
Chinu

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

What you wrote is directly against any Upanishads which explicitly say again and again that Atman is perfect and Atman is Brahman... Advaitins, vishistadvaitins and even Hare Krishnas accept that, I dont know your school of thought maybe Dvaita?

Well its not against the Upanishads, as I found Upanishads to be explanations of the sections of the Vedas, because its what I understood from reading the Vedas and Upanishads (still in the process of reading) is that Ishvara pervades the Atman, yet Atman being separate and eternal, as the Atman is bound by Karma therefore if Atman is Brahman then the Brahman will be also susceptible to Karma, and as Karma is a Law of Brahman, being perfect Brahman will not break its own Laws "two birds sitting on a tree, one eats the fruit the other watches", cant remember which mantra this is from, but this is what I make of it.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Hello ,

I have two rather "hard" questions I think.

1) What exactly is reborn after we die? Atman, Jiva, Subtle body or mind?

In Advaita Philosophy there are 5 koshas or sheaths :

-annamayakosa...the physical
-pranamayakosa... prana or vital force
-manomayakosha ... mind
-vijnamakosa... intelligence
-anandamayakosa... bliss

They are called sheaths because they conceal the Atman. The most innermost sheath of bliss is what is reborn.

2) Since Atman is perfect so why do we need to reborn and spiritually evolve?

Because the individual Jiva has a desire to be reborn but the Atman is not effected by any changes in the kosa's