What Gender Is Your Brain?

[ignition]

Ah well there you go: Violence........ Anger.
Anger which is left unchecked by the host's "faculties of reason" and ergo ends up as Violence against someone/something. :yes:

As for class sizes, I think a lot of that has to do with the environments people live in. We're raised in a very "Pink and Blue" society, so obviously Gender Roles are going to take effect here. Perhaps if Females weren't raised to be "girly" and Males to be "boyish" then we wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah but that's the point! I'd rather be punched by an angry boy and then make up with him shortly afterwards then have a girl ******** and moaning at me for an entire year or more. It defies logic. And yes, I have actually had a girl moaning for more than a ******* year, just keeping on bringing up the subject. I'd take a blow in the face any day of the week. Makes far more sense.

Oh c'mon that's BS. Are gender roles also responsible for men being stronger than women? They're apples and oranges, whichever you look at it, we're not the same thing and we will never be. And that's a GOOD thing in my opinion.

 

[ignition]

Wow, I didn't even use swear words and it's still censored!! Who the hell is responsible for this lol

 

[Sunstone]

I have a total boy brain. I think they were emphasizing "boy".

 

[Aquitaine]

Yeah but that's the point! I'd rather be punched by an angry boy and then make up with him shortly afterwards then have a girl ******** and moaning at me for an entire year or more. It defies logic. And yes, I have actually had a girl moaning for more than a ******* year, just keeping on bringing up the subject. I'd take a blow in the face any day of the week. Makes far more sense.

Oh c'mon that's BS. Are gender roles also responsible for men being stronger than women? They're apples and oranges, whichever you look at it, we're not the same thing and we will never be. And that's a GOOD thing in my opinion.

I remember when I found out that the word us Brits use for "cigarette" is censored because in the USA it is a homophobic slur.


Well, I guess it depends on what kind of violence it is. Would you prefer to be stabbed or even killed, or be moaned at for a year?
Not to mention there's nothing saying a Male cannot hold a year-long grudge even after he's attacked you.

As for Gender Roles, no they are not responsible for biological differences like increased upper body strength (on average), but they do play an important role in how people behave in society, and what they aspire to.

Hell even looking at kids toys can highlight this: girls have pink ponies, babies, kitchens, whereas boys will have cars, guns, toolboxes etc.
Another example is attitudes towards crying and displays of sexuality: Males are discouraged from crying but are almost celebrated for being promiscuous. Whereas Females are discouraged from being promiscuous and are almost celebrated for being "emotional".

 

[Penumbra]

Women and men may be a bit different innately but then on top of that society pushes them in certain directions from infancy. Girls are given "girl toys" like dolls and art supplies, told how pretty they are, are not disciplined for showing emotion, etc. Boys are given "boy toys" like things to build, weapons, and vehicles and are typically pushed away from showing too much emotion.

The way everyone speaks to you from childhood, the skills you're encouraged to develop in play, and the peer group you're expected to interact with certainly have an impact on someone's personality. This can be seen in the sense that men from different cultures tend to have different values from each other in certain areas, and the same is true for women from different cultures. If boys and girls were raised without gender expectations in ways that did not substantially differ, the differences in gender expression in adulthood would almost certainly be narrower.

 

[ignition]

Women and men may be a bit different innately but then on top of that society pushes them in certain directions from infancy. Girls are given "girl toys" like dolls and art supplies, told how pretty they are, are not disciplined for showing emotion, etc. Boys are given "boy toys" like things to build, weapons, and vehicles and are typically pushed away from showing too much emotion.

The way everyone speaks to you from childhood, the skills you're encouraged to develop in play, and the peer group you're expected to interact with certainly have an impact on someone's personality. This can be seen in the sense that men from different cultures tend to have different values from each other in certain areas, and the same is true for women from different cultures. If boys and girls were raised without gender expectations in ways that did not substantially differ, the differences in gender expression in adulthood would almost certainly be narrower.

Yes, but the reason why society does this is BECAUSE of the fact that we are different. You seem to take the point of view that society is a cause of the differences whereas I take the view that society reinforces gender expectations at infancy precisely because of the differences themselves, it is a reaction to what already exists. A bit like discouraging girls from peeing whilst standing, it doesn't matter if you try to force girls to stand while peeing, inevitable they will sit down because that's the way they are meant to function. Urinals and girls don't mix.

 

[Sunstone]

Over the years, I've entertained differing opinions on the differences, if any, between men and women. Nowadays, I'm inclined to believe that societies tend to make more of the differences than is warranted. That is, they exaggerate the extent to which men and women are fundamentally different. So, while I see some differences between men and women as being legitimate, I now believe those differences are best described as overlapping tendencies, rather than as absolutes, and that they would be greatly lessened if societies did not emphasize them.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it helps to look at the differences between men and women as a large set of two overlapping bell curves. For instance, if you were looking at the difference between men and women when it comes to running, you would notice that the fastest runners are men, and the slowest runners are women. But it's more than just that. The fastest women are faster than all but, say, the fastest 5% of men, while the slowest men are slower than all but, say, 5% of women. So the curves overlap more than they don't. And this seems to me to be true of nearly all differences between men and women.

 

[Penumbra]

Yes, but the reason why society does this is BECAUSE of the fact that we are different. You seem to take the point of view that society is a cause of the differences whereas I take the view that society reinforces gender expectations at infancy precisely because of the differences themselves, it is a reaction to what already exists. A bit like discouraging girls from peeing whilst standing, it doesn't matter if you try to force girls to stand while peeing, inevitable they will sit down because that's the way they are meant to function. Urinals and girls don't mix.

If the blue part is what you determined from my previous post then you didn't read it correctly.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes, but the reason why society does this is BECAUSE of the fact that we are different. You seem to take the point of view that society is a cause of the differences whereas I take the view that society reinforces gender expectations at infancy precisely because of the differences themselves, it is a reaction to what already exists. A bit like discouraging girls from peeing whilst standing, it doesn't matter if you try to force girls to stand while peeing, inevitable they will sit down because that's the way they are meant to function. Urinals and girls don't mix.

Hypothetically-speaking, it would be interesting to raise a society of people in as much of gender-neutral environment as possible, and observe the differences.
Perhaps society reinforces gender stereotypes, rather than simple differences/preferences between the sexes.

Oh and for the record, Female Urinals do actually exist.

 

[ignition]

I think it helps to look at the differences between men and women as a large set of two overlapping bell curves. For instance, if you were looking at the difference between men and women when it comes to running, you would notice that the fastest runners are men, and the slowest runners are women. But it's more than just that. The fastest women are faster than all but, say, the fastest 5% of men, while the slowest men are slower than all but, say, 5% of women. So the curves overlap more than they don't. And this seems to me to be true of nearly all differences between men and women.

That's actually fundamentally false, it's a common myth actually that gets repeated but has been debunked, not just statistically but scientifically as well, since there's a scientific explanation for the statistics behind it. On average, a fast 15 year old boy can beat the fastest women in the world, in fact, the world record for women of all time in the 100 meters was beaten by around 15 teenage boys, that's completely discounting any adult male. So no, it's not true, it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. There really is no statistical comparison between males and females in terms of speed or strength, it's due to the biological make-up of the two genders.

 

[Sunstone]

That's actually fundamentally false, it's a common myth actually that gets repeated but has been debunked, not just statistically but scientifically as well, since there's a scientific explanation for the statistics behind it. On average, a fast 15 year old boy can beat the fastest women in the world, in fact, the world record for women of all time in the 100 meters was beaten by around 15 teenage boys, that's completely discounting any adult male. So no, it's not true, it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. There really is no statistical comparison between males and females in terms of speed or strength, it's due to the biological make-up of the two genders.

So what if a fast 15 year old boy can beat the fastest women in the world? Unless a slow 15 year old boy can do the same, the model holds, albeit with modifications.

 

[ignition]

If the blue part is what you determined from my previous post then you didn't read it correctly.

Actually, you're the one that didn't read my post correctly since I used the words "a cause" rather than "the cause". There's no question that you invoked societal expectations of infants as one of the causes of the differences that exist to a degree.

 

[Penumbra]

That's actually fundamentally false, it's a common myth actually that gets repeated but has been debunked, not just statistically but scientifically as well, since there's a scientific explanation for the statistics behind it. On average, a fast 15 year old boy can beat the fastest women in the world, in fact, the world record for women of all time in the 100 meters was beaten by around 15 teenage boys, that's completely discounting any adult male. So no, it's not true, it doesn't work like that I'm afraid. There really is no statistical comparison between males and females in terms of speed or strength, it's due to the biological make-up of the two genders.

You run a 4:12 mile and get back to me.

 

[Penumbra]

Actually, you're the one that didn't read my post correctly since I used the words "a cause" rather than "the cause". There's no question that you invoked societal expectations of infants as one of the causes of the differences that exist to a degree.

If you're saying that society has absolutely no cause whatsoever with regards to gender expression then I can't take this conversation seriously.

 

[Sunstone]

If you're saying that society has absolutely no cause whatsoever with regards to gender expression then I can't take this conversation seriously.

Nor can I, if that's the case.

 

[Penumbra]

This is the impact that culture can have on people:

Groups of women, totally different:

http://rt.com/files/news/*****-riot-court-hearing-355/if499a049ff6dce2e1c1bd012dd9466b2_1.jpg

Dudes, totally different:

Many women and men have more in common with each other than men from different cultures have with each other or women from different cultures have with each other.

 

[ignition]

So what if a fast 15 year old boy can beat the fastest women in the world? Unless a slow 15 year old boy can do the same, the model holds, albeit with modifications.

It doesn't hold at all. 5% is a prohibitively small number, it looks very unrealistic. And secondly, the way you phrased it is hopelessly unscientific. What do you even mean by the "fastest women"? It can be interpreted in any way. If we take the top 5 100m runners for women in the year 2012 for example, what proportion of men do you think could run quicker than any one of them? Would you think that's a fair way of conducting a study?

 

[ignition]

You run a 4:12 mile and get back to me.

Non-sequiter.

 

[Sunstone]

It doesn't hold at all. 5% is a prohibitively small number, it looks very unrealistic. And secondly, the way you phrased it is hopelessly unscientific. What do you even mean by the "fastest women"? It can be interpreted in any way. If we take the top 5 100m runners for women in the year 2012 for example, what proportion of men do you think could run quicker than any one of them? Would you think that's a fair way of conducting a study?

That's just plain anal. I was clearly using 5% as a hypothetical.