What happened to Christianity?

[Twilight Hue]

Christianity is finally showing it's age and is now slowly headed for the annals of religious history alongside other mythological tales and beings of old.

It's been a pretty good run for the religion. I'll give it that. It's getting time to hang it up though in light it's clearly getting less relevant as a religion as the numbers of adherents keep dwindling down.

 

[shmogie]

Christianity is finally showing it's age and is now slowly headed for the annals of religious history alongside other mythological tales and beings of old.

It's been a pretty good run for the religion. I'll give it that. It's getting time to hang it up though in light it's clearly getting less relevant as a religion as the numbers of adherents keep dwindling down.

LOL ! Your tune has been sung for centuries, not true then, not true now.

 

[sooda]

All doctrines that cannot be found in the ENTIRE bible are the ones I am talking about. And that is almost all you find in churches. I have been to a lot of churches. So very many. Yet none that I have visited have THE truth. They all have their truth.
Which is usually close to THE truth. I constantly test my thoughts against the Word, which I consider to be THE truth. I don’t want to be guided by my truths. But only THE truth. I started going to church believing that is where I would find THE truth. I always came away condemned, feeling like I was doing and thinking wrong, and of course, never doing enough. For years I thought I was the problem. Now I know better. The response from Deeje above spells it out quite clearly.

The Laodecians are very pertinent to this thread. I am glad you brought that up here. However, I don’t understand what you mean by ”at the end there will be a falling away” and also “all is unfolding as it should”. Just wondering.

The Laodecians? In 60 A.D their city was hit by a major earthquake.. They had to completely rebuild. Is that what you are talking about?

 

[sooda]

Wow, you are able to judge all the millions upon millions of Christians and the hundreds of thousand, churches.

What man made doctrines are you talking about ?

The Bible makes it clear that at the end there will be a falling away as in the Laodecian Church.

Don´t fret, all is unfolding as it should.

The true Church, all who have truly accepted the call, will persevere.

Colossae, Laodicea, and Hierapolis were three closely-situated cities mentioned by Paul in the New Testament, each possessing Christians.

These cities were the target of a devastating earthquake around AD 60-62, probably just after Paul wrote his letters to the Christians of that area. According to historians, all three cities were destroyed. Barring miraculous intervention, this historic event probably claimed some of the lives of our Christian ancestors.

 

[Twilight Hue]

LOL ! Your tune has been sung for centuries, not true then, not true now.

Oh I'm sure there will still be followers of Christianity. However I'm quite certain it has passed it's heyday. I don't see it regaining any of it's former past 'glory' that it used to have at it's highest peak.

Europe is a pretty strong indicator of that.

 

[shmogie]

The Laodecians? In 60 A.D their city was hit by a major earthquake.. They had to completely rebuild. Is that what you are talking about?

No. Seven churches are mentioned id series in Revelation. The spiritual condition of each is described.

The Laodecian Church was described as being neither hot nor cold, rich and comfortable with worldly goods, not very spiritual, and God says He will, ¨ spew them out of his mouth¨

 

[sooda]

No. Seven churches are mentioned id series in Revelation. The spiritual condition of each is described.

The Laodecian Church was described as being neither hot nor cold, rich and comfortable with worldly goods, not very spiritual, and God says He will, ¨ spew them out of his mouth¨

Antiochus the Great transported 2,000 Jewish families to Phrygia from Babylonia. Many of Laodicea's inhabitants were Jews, and Cicero records that Flaccus confiscated the considerable sum of 9 kilograms (20 lb) of gold which was being sent annually to Jerusalem for the Temple (Pro Flacco 28-68).

The martyrdom of Lulianos and Paphos is believed to have happened here.

With its large Jewish community, Very early Laodicea became a seat of Christianity and a bishopric.

The Epistle to the Colossians mentions Laodicea as one of the communities of concern for Paul the Apostle. It sends greetings from a certain Epaphras from Colossae, who worked hard for the Christians of the three Phrygian cities of Colossae, Laodicea and Hierapolis. Asking for greetings to be sent to the Laodicean Christians, the writer requests that his letter be read publicly at Laodicea (Colossians 4:16) and that another letter addressed to the Laodiceans (see Epistle to the Laodiceans) be given a public reading at Colossae.

Some Greek manuscripts of the First Epistle to Timothy end with the words: "Written at Laodicea, metropolis of Phrygia Pacatiana". Laodicea is also one of the seven churches of Asia mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

Laodicea on the Lycus - Wikipedia


The Church of Laodicea in the Bible and Archaeology ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/...
Yet the Laodicean church’s “lukewarm” legacy was not its final legacy. The church at Laodicea survived Domitian’s reign.

The city became a bishopric (seat of a Christian bishop), and a Christian council was even held there in the fourth century C.E. Archaeologists have discovered about 20 ancient Christian chapels and churches at the site.

 

[Ponder This]

Hmm. There are layers of an onion when it comes to the current trend in Church music.
While I appreciate the creator's intent, the modern church-music style (while emotionally charged and 'uplifting' ) ultimately it does not seem to be conducive to prayer or the development of one's spiritual body.
It seems to be part of 'Church as entertainment' rather than 'Church as edification', because as benign as the intent of the authors of the music may or may not be, the underlying intent in using this music isn't spiritual - it's to boost church attendance. And as ironic as that may seem to be, boosting church attendance isn't a spiritual goal, is it?

 

[shmogie]

Hmm. There are layers of an onion when it comes to the current trend in Church music.
While I appreciate the creator's intent, the modern church-music style (while emotionally charged and 'uplifting' ) ultimately it does not seem to be conducive to prayer or the development of one's spiritual body.
It seems to be part of 'Church as entertainment' rather than 'Church as edification', because as benign as the intent of the authors of the music may or may not be, the underlying intent in using this music isn't spiritual - it's to boost church attendance. And as ironic as that may seem to be, boosting church attendance isn't a spiritual goal, is it?

How do you determine what the intent of the use of any music is ?

I come from a very Conservative church background. Organs, pianoś and violins were the primary source of music.

A long time ago I attended a Pentacostal church for the first time with a friend. When I say drums and electric guitars in the sanctuary, I began to feel uneasy, after the service I was very uneasy.

Why ?

Because I had been trained to believe that there was only one kind of right music in church.

These folk weren´t doing what they had calculated would bring them more members, they were playing the kind of music that supported their joy in praising God.

After almost 50 intervening years, that kind of music still can make me uneasy, but thatś my personal feeling and preference, not what is right.

I don´t judge motives, that´s Gods job.

 

[Ponder This]

How do you determine what the intent of the use of any music is ?

I come from a very Conservative church background. Organs, pianoś and violins were the primary source of music.

A long time ago I attended a Pentacostal church for the first time with a friend. When I say drums and electric guitars in the sanctuary, I began to feel uneasy, after the service I was very uneasy.

Why ?

Because I had been trained to believe that there was only one kind of right music in church.

These folk weren´t doing what they had calculated would bring them more members, they were playing the kind of music that supported their joy in praising God.

After almost 50 intervening years, that kind of music still can make me uneasy, but thatś my personal feeling and preference, not what is right.

I don´t judge motives, that´s Gods job.

The stated intention of the use of the modern music is to increase church attendance, is it not?
Is it not the stated intention to appeal to the younger generation and get them to attend church?
When people state their intentions, I don't have to guess what they are. And, yes, God is judge of what they do.

 

[sooda]

How do you determine what the intent of the use of any music is ?

I come from a very Conservative church background. Organs, pianoś and violins were the primary source of music.

A long time ago I attended a Pentacostal church for the first time with a friend. When I say drums and electric guitars in the sanctuary, I began to feel uneasy, after the service I was very uneasy.

Why ?

Because I had been trained to believe that there was only one kind of right music in church.

These folk weren´t doing what they had calculated would bring them more members, they were playing the kind of music that supported their joy in praising God.

After almost 50 intervening years, that kind of music still can make me uneasy, but thatś my personal feeling and preference, not what is right.

I don´t judge motives, that´s Gods job.

My family church was strictly acapella....

 

[shmogie]

The stated intention of the use of the modern music is to increase church attendance, is it not?
Is it not the stated intention to appeal to the younger generation and get them to attend church?
When people state their intentions, I don't have to guess what they are. And, yes, God is judge of what they do.

Who stated this intention ? Does it apply to every music ministry in every church that uses more modern style music.

 

[Ponder This]

Who stated this intention ? Does it apply to every music ministry in every church that uses more modern style music.

Generally speaking, yes. Churches were resistant, in general, to changing the music they used in their churches to conform to modern-styles of music. It was a pretty big-deal to start doing modern-style music.

Church music has gone through many changes over the centuries. Church as entertainment versus church as edification is not a new concept. And it's a real problem for those seeking to preserve the spiritual essence of the Church because the modern-style of music is particularly ill-suited - like really, really, really ill-suited. It's a major challenge that's resulted in churches splitting their services into one that offers the 'traditional' style and services that use the modern-style to bring in church attendance from the younger generations.

 

[shmogie]

Generally speaking, yes. Churches were resistant, in general, to changing the music they used in their churches to conform to modern-styles of music. It was a pretty big-deal to start doing modern-style music.

Church music has gone through many changes over the centuries. Church as entertainment versus church as edification is not a new concept. And it's a real problem for those seeking to preserve the spiritual essence of the Church because the modern-style of music is particularly ill-suited - like really, really, really ill-suited. It's a major challenge that's resulted in churches splitting their services into one that offers the 'traditional' style and services that use the modern-style to bring in church attendance from the younger generations.

Change is always resisted to greater or lesser degree. In the denomination that I spent much of my life, clapping in the sanctuary was a great no no, as well as speaking above a whisper. Of course the music was very, very 19th century.

I understand this has changed now.

I would agree that heavy metal, or God forbid, rap music are particularly ill suited for worship services.

However, upbeat music and showing enthusiasm is not a big deal to me.

 

[Scuba Pete]

There are many man made beliefs that are held by most Christian denominations. The two that are most harmful sound so pious:

• The Bible is the word of God
  • ...and without error
  
  There's lots of great in the scriptures, but Christianity is a revealed religion. The scriptures even tell us that the Spirit will guide us into all knowledge. It never claims to be the Word of God nor does it claim to be without error. Unfortunately, we love laws. We love to judge. So the one "law" that Jesus gave us has been multiplied to massive amounts.
  
  Unless your claim to Christianity boils down to "By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.", then you've bought in to legalism. All you need is love.
  
  Galatians 5:6 The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. NIV

 

[sooda]

No. Seven churches are mentioned id series in Revelation. The spiritual condition of each is described.

The Laodecian Church was described as being neither hot nor cold, rich and comfortable with worldly goods, not very spiritual, and God says He will, ¨ spew them out of his mouth¨

The Laodecian Church was destroyed by earthquake.

 

[shmogie]

The Laodecian Church was destroyed by earthquake.

Yes, but the issue in Revelation is the spiritual condition of the church at the time Revelation was written.

 

[sooda]

Yes, but the issue in Revelation is the spiritual condition of the church at the time Revelation was written.

Did Laodecian church or city recover after the earthquake?

Why do you think Martin Luther rejected the Book of revelation as neither apostolic or prophetic?

 

[Shiranui117]

Did Laodecian church or city recover after the earthquake?

Why do you think Martin Luther rejected the Book of revelation as neither apostolic or prophetic?

Yes, Laodicea was inhabited until the 1200's. The Turks and the Mongols destroyed the city.

 

[Shiranui117]

Oh I'm sure there will still be followers of Christianity. However I'm quite certain it has passed it's heyday. I don't see it regaining any of it's former past 'glory' that it used to have at it's highest peak.

Europe is a pretty strong indicator of that.

Christianity in the West is definitely on the decline. The mainline Protestant denominations have largely given way to Charismatic movements, "non-denominational" churches, and sometimes we also see Protestants going for more confessional, traditional forms of their faith, like the Reformed Church, WELS, LCMS, or Continuing Anglican churches. Roman Catholicism is kamikaze-ing in spectacular fashion straight into the dirt. IDK much about Mormonism's growth rates. Orthodox countries seem to be stable and have largely recuperated from the ravagings of Communist governments.