What happens after we die

[Mock Turtle]

What do you mean? There is no scientific rejection for the NDE studies. If you don’t know about it or don’t hear much about it, it doesn’t mean its not accepted scientifically.

yes, there is no physical explanation for NDEs but that is irrelevant to the fact that the observations itself are documented and true. The evidence proved that our consciousness continues beyond the lifeless body. Nothing about this special experience is physical yet it’s evidently very true.

How you equate NDE with UFOs? Is it only because this is how you think of it? We are talking about acknowledged and published scientific studies.

Then, on what basis you are making a judgment? These are credible published scientific studies.

Yes, the brain is a black box and will continue to be but that is irrelevant. Brain functions don’t explain verified experiences physically very far away from the location of the physical body or accurate visual experiences of those lifeless/blind NDErs who never saw anything in their entire life and evidently impossible for them to physically have any visual experience of any kind.

The future is now. The experiences that were in the past not much more than some scattered stories became verified and documented scientific observations.

There are no interpretations, suppositions of any mechanism or explanatory theoretical framework other than documenting the verified facts that enhanced or non-local consciousness, with unaltered self-identity, can be experienced independently from the lifeless body.

No matter how you think about it or try to justify it, the verified OBEs in addition to the visual experiences of the blind are unexplainable through any physical means.

Your position is not based on evidence or knowledge. It’s merely a choice, only you can decide which side you want to be on.

It is more about the interpretations of the NDE studies. I am aware of this. And perhaps more about the OBEs. All I am saying is that we just don't have sufficient knowledge as to what is happening during such episodes. You seem to assume we do.

Your claims as to consciousness beyond 'the lifeless body' is precisely the point, in that we just don't have sufficient knowledge as to where death 'actually occurs' or what we might be experiencing during these events. I have remarked before as to my solving a technical problem apparently whilst asleep, such that it is obvious that something rather essential to my existence was working away whilst I was asleep. I am suggesting that our subconscious might be doing much the same when we face quite critical situations - like possible death - and as to why some might apparently 'remember' details during their experiences of such things as NDEs .

I mostly have a probability nature, given I don't have a 'know this for certain' nature, and hence why I am less likely to attach myself to some particular belief without good evidence. A few examples, even in the scientific literature, are hardly likely to give me great enthusiasm as to my accepting such as being 'the truth' concerning whatever. I will note such, but I will wait for 'really good' evidence before I might attach myself to this new belief.

And as to the rest, well I would point to your religious beliefs as wrecking your impartiality.

 

[Brian2]

It is more about the interpretations of the NDE studies. I am aware of this. And perhaps more about the OBEs. All I am saying is that we just don't have sufficient knowledge as to what is happening during such episodes. You seem to assume we do.

Your claims as to consciousness beyond 'the lifeless body' is precisely the point, in that we just don't have sufficient knowledge as to where death 'actually occurs' or what we might be experiencing during these events. I have remarked before as to my solving a technical problem apparently whilst asleep, such that it is obvious that something rather essential to my existence was working away whilst I was asleep. I am suggesting that our subconscious might be doing much the same when we face quite critical situations - like possible death - and as to why some might apparently 'remember' details during their experiences of such things as NDEs .

I mostly have a probability nature, given I don't have a 'know this for certain' nature, and hence why I am less likely to attach myself to some particular belief without good evidence. A few examples, even in the scientific literature, are hardly likely to give me great enthusiasm as to my accepting such as being 'the truth' concerning whatever. I will note such, but I will wait for 'really good' evidence before I might attach myself to this new belief.

And as to the rest, well I would point to your religious beliefs as wrecking your impartiality.

There are OBEs during NDEs where the person reports things they saw and/or heard which have been verified. That is nothing like working something out in your head while being asleep.

 

[Mock Turtle]

There are OBEs during NDEs where the person reports things they saw and/or heard which have been verified. That is nothing like working something out in your head while being asleep.

I doubt such things are conclusive though.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Is there more?

If religious Bob says there is heaven or hell after death and nonreligious Bill says there is nothing after death....
Aren't they both simply assuming what they don't know?

I know there's more.
My mom isn't dead. She's more alive than before, she's just not in this physical reality that I'm in.
She can still communicate with me, just not with words.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Thanks for sharing all that information about NDEs. I definitely believe they are real experiences, but I do not believe that those people who experienced them actually crossed over into the spiritual world. I believe that they only caught a glimpse of it. Many NDEers report that they were given an opportunity to choose to live and come back to their life in this world or to die, go through the portal, and enter the spiritual world. Obviously, those who came back to tell us what happened are those who chose to live. Those who did not have a choice because they were beyond saving with medical intervention continued on to the spiritual world, but there are no reports from them since they never came back to tell us what it was like.

I believe that psychic mediums can communicate to spirits who are in the spiritual world.
A couple of books I have read on the subject are as follows:

The Afterlife Revealed

Private Dowding

I don't know anyone who has had a near-death experience, and I haven't either. I have, however, seen a person's spirit briefly leave their body and then return shortly after. I've seen this occur more than once while I've been in hospitals and nursing homes. I was present when my maternal grandmother passed away in the nursing home, and I saw her spirit leave her body moments after she died. I never told her while she was alive that I'm a psychic medium and I can communicate with the dead. So, she was astonished and perplexed to learn that I could see and communicate with her now that she was a spirit. She had confided in me before she died that she was at peace about dying, and she reassured me again in spirit. She told me that she could see a light and she could see my grandfather standing in the light. I told her that she should go see him, and she did. She crossed over peacefully. I was also present when my grandfather (her husband) died, and his reaction to my being able to see and communicate with him in spirit was the same as my grandmother's reaction. Not only was I present at their death and I communicated with them in spirit, I was also aware of their impending death before they died. And that wasn't the first time I knew when a relative had died, and I wasn't there to see it. I sensed when my husband's grandparents had passed away. I told my husband at the time, but I didn't tell anyone else in his family.

My maternal great-grandfather was very sick and died when I was 12 years old. I saw him shortly after he died. He died at home in his bed, surrounded by several loved ones. At the time of his death, I was staying with my paternal grandparents in the next town over. It was late and I was in bed. I suddenly woke up and my great-grandfather was standing in front of my bed, smiling at me. I got out of bed and went into the living room to tell my grandparents that my great-grandfather had passed away. They didn't know what to say at first and just gazed at me. My grandmother told me that I had been dreaming, and she told me to go back to bed. So, I did as she said and went back to bed. I sat up in bed and just watched my great-grandfather. He was sitting on the edge of my bed when I came back into the room. We didn't say anything to each other. I didn't know what to say anyway. We just stared at one another. I looked at the clock on the nightstand when I left the room to tell my grandparents that my great-grandfather had died. It was 9:15 PM.

I heard the phone ring about fifteen minutes after I returned to the bedroom. I heard my grandmother answer the phone and I could hear my aunt on the other line. My aunt has always talked in a loud voice because she is hard of hearing. My aunt called to tell my grandmother that my great-grandfather had passed away approximately 15 minutes earlier, and my aunt asked my grandmother to tell me in the morning. The bedroom I was in was right off of the living room, so I could hear the entire conversation. I got up and tip-toed to the door and peeked out through the crack in the door. I saw the look of shock on both of my grandparents' faces. I heard my grandmother whisper to my grandfather, "How did [my name] know that he passed away when she wasn't there?" My grandfather just shook his head and whispered back, "I don't know." I never heard either one of them mention what happened ever again.

My paternal grandmother passed away in June 2010, when I was 37 years old. She had passed away a couple of days after I saw her last in the nursing home. I knew that she had died when my uncle called to tell me and my husband. My husband and I attended her funeral at the church where she had been a long-time member. As I entered the sanctuary, I noticed my grandmother standing behind her coffin, looking around at her family and friends, as well as the other people who were already seated. As she was looking around, her eyes met mine and she smiled. I smiled back at her and went to sit down with my husband. He leaned over to me and whispered in my ear, "You can see her, can't you?" I nodded yes. I didn't speak to my grandmother until we were at the cemetery for the burial. I was concerned for her because she hadn't crossed over yet. After the service was over and everyone else was standing around talking, I caught my grandmother's eye and nodded to indicate to her that she should follow me. I walked quite a distance away and stood behind a tree so that I could speak with her without drawing any attention from the other people at the funeral.

Before I could say a word to her, she looked at me and quietly said, "I knew it." and I understood what she meant. She apologized for not talking to me about my psychic abilities earlier in my life, and she said that she regretted not intervening on my behalf when she knew about what I was going through at home. She said that she needed to explain herself, and I listened to her explanation. She asked me to forgive her, and I told her I had, which was the truth. I wanted her to be at peace so that she could crossover and not be stuck as an earthbound spirit. We spoke for a couple of more minutes, and then she crossed over. I haven't seen her spirit since.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What happens after death is relocation of molecules of the body. But they no more belong to any person in particular since the person is already dead. One cannot own anything after death.

 

[We Never Know]

From dust we came and to dust we shall return.

How we became from dust is the big disagreement.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

From dust we came and to dust we shall return.

Ashes to ashes. Dust to dust.

How we became from dust is the big disagreement.

It most certainly is. I'm quite familiar with the disagreement as I'm usually on the receiving end of the criticism and skepticism. As I've said before, other people can accept or reject what I say in my threads and posts. It's entirely their decision, and it doesn't bother me if they don't believe me. I didn't join this site to quarrel with skeptics about the paranormal or to persuade skeptics to believe in the paranormal as I do. I joined to talk to other paranormal enthusiasts, share my experiences while investigating the paranormal, listen to and talk to others about their experiences, discuss my connection to the spirit realm, and discuss other topics that interest me.

 

[Brian2]

I doubt such things are conclusive though.

Well of course there is no conclusive scientific study that shows consciousness outside the body but then again, if you don't accept that then I would say that you would have to say that people are lying about their experiences and that they are aided by others who lie in agreement with those reports of what happened.
It is not as if activities inside the brain can come up with knowledge of what is happening outside the body, and even in another room.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well of course there is no conclusive scientific study that shows consciousness outside the body but then again, if you don't accept that then I would say that you would have to say that people are lying about their experiences and that they are aided by others who lie in agreement with those reports of what happened.
It is not as if activities inside the brain can come up with knowledge of what is happening outside the body, and even in another room.

Not lying, but perhaps misinterpreting or such. Which could account for much of this. Just as much as happens with UFO sightings or any other phenomena as to which there might be several explanations.

 

[YoursTrue]

How does something like self, memory, recall, experience, qualia, reasoning, knowing, conceptualization, love, hate, character, personality, etc. come to be in the first place? It's evident to me it's orchestrated and constructed that these things come about from some sort of primitive yet powerful intellect. It's evident that because of such intellect consciousness must be an extra dimension of reality. To me evolution is ingenious and extremely smart yet also very savage. I said yes.

The experience of consciousness doesn't translate to purely physical terms. You can say it's just chemistry and electric but that explanation doesn't give you a demonstrable model. It's unproven with explanation gaps that are not going to be filled. It's also untestable. No third person access to someone's first person consciousness will be forthcoming.

While bodies are obviously not the same -- the human brain is far different than that of gorillas, ants, beetles, and chimpanzees, don't you think?

 

[rational experiences]

The human.

Everyone of us historic never ever the two human parents who have sex.

We come from human DNA microbial form. Parents our creators man woman.

We grow into a baby human from the microbial bodies. Says science exact.. where you exist only.

You live until you get old if you're lucky. You die by breathing oxygen stopping your heart stops. Blood no longer functions.

A human looks at you says you are deceased. You cease.

The body when seen begins to deteriorate. The subject topic most humans are afraid of. Don't want to think upon nor infer to.

As scientific evidence...death.

Mentality involved.

Then humans who by mind psyche say I hear voices.

So science says yes I explained why. Everything gets recorded as an image by a lighted condition overcome by ice and water oxygen.

It's term is to be recorded. It becomes a heavenly memory.

It's why as you leave your family DNA you see deceased humans too.

It's been proven umpteen times so it cannot be ignored as non scientific when it's science that told us why it existed.

As you see deceased humans or animals etc it's why it's termed after life so theists don't claim it's before life to kill us all off.

Actually.

 

[Nakosis]

Is there more?

If religious Bob says there is heaven or hell after death and nonreligious Bill says there is nothing after death....
Aren't they both simply assuming what they don't know?

I'm persuaded by my experience with anesthesia.
During anesthesia what happens is oblivion.
The "conscious self" no longer exists.
So if anything survives after death, it isn't the conscious self.
When the inner communication of the brain is interrupted the self ceases to exist.
When the brain dies so does conscious existence.

So this is actual experience to rely on.

Anything else is claims made by people who haven't died, so lack any experience on the question.

 

[osgart]

While bodies are obviously not the same -- the human brain is far different than that of gorillas, ants, beetles, and chimpanzees, don't you think?

It's far different than ants, and beetles. Gorillas and chimpanzees might not be as developed. All these animals have degrees of consciousness and are alive though.

 

[rational experiences]

It's far different than ants, and beetles. Gorillas and chimpanzees might not be as developed. All these animals have degrees of consciousness and are alive though.

If a man thinking in thesis about no nature and a reactive earth position.

A monkey or gorillas life mind in family is more intelligent than your thoughts.

Said a natural human aware of how evil your scientists intentions are. By your words and explanations about theming our non presence when it exists.

We titled you evil thinkers because you are exactly as we spiritually described you.

Employed because you think evilly placed governing as the evil employer too. In full awareness of type of mind behaviour employed advices.

It's why a religious legal branch established the legality of a non human science theme. As humans legal rights to live on earth by human named one title the God entity status.

For an entity to be termed legal it had to be given status to be qualified legal.

 

[rational experiences]

It's far different than ants, and beetles. Gorillas and chimpanzees might not be as developed. All these animals have degrees of consciousness and are alive though.

If a man thinking in thesis about no nature and a reactive earth position.

A monkey or gorillas life mind in family is more intelligent than your thoughts.

Said a natural human aware of how evil your scientists intentions are. By your words and explanations about theming our non presence when it exists.

We titled you evil thinkers because you are exactly as we spiritually described you.

Employed because you think evilly placed governing as the evil employer too. In full awareness of type of mind behaviour employed advices.

It's why a religious legal branch established the legality of a non human science theme. As humans legal rights to live on earth by human named one title the God entity status.

For an entity to be termed legal it had to be given status to be qualified legal.

 

[LIIA]

It is more about the interpretations of the NDE studies

What interpretations? There are no interpretations. The NDE studies are concerned with the documentation of the NDE experiences and the verification whether the reported experiences are true or mere imagination/hallucinations.

The evidence proved that the reported events/details and visual experiences of NDErs while being unconscious are real and accurate.

NDEs may appear to you to be impossible/unexplainable but that has nothing to do with the fact that the experiences are evidently true and took place as reported.

All I am saying is that we just don't have sufficient knowledge as to what is happening during such episodes.

We know that the reported details of the OBEs far from the physical body were true and the blinds reported true verified visual experiences.

These types of experiences are typically assumed to be impossible. Whether the person is alive, dead, conscious or unconscious, it’s irrelevant; these experiences remain impossible in any scenario, yet it has been verified to be true events that did take place.

You seem to assume we do.

We know NDEs were verified as true experiences not some sort of imagination, that what really matters but other than the confirmation that the experiences are real, there is no proposed mechanism or theoretical framework to explain how did the consciousness (with unaltered self-identity) evidently travel far away from the physical body while maintaining more awareness and alertness than normal, and having accurate and true visual experiences while being unconscious, the same was true even with blind NDErs that never have any visual experiences neither before or after the NDE.

attach myself to some particular belief without good evidence

What type good evidence are you looking for to confirm the phenomenon other than the documentation and verification of hundreds of cases in credible scientific research?

I will note such, but I will wait for 'really good' evidence before I might attach myself to this new belief.

The experts who studied the phenomenon on hundreds of cases confirmed that the experiences are true. You cannot possibly get a confirmation better than that.

I’m not sure what is your definition of ‘really good' evidence/confirmation, unless maybe you conduct the study yourself, but even if you do and see the exact same results. Would you accept it? I doubt it.

And as to the rest, well I would point to your religious beliefs as wrecking your impartiality.

I’m not the one who conducted the studies or confirmed the experiences. Experts following the strict rules of scientific research did. If there is any impartiality here, it’s definitely not on my end.

If you don’t want to accept the confirmation of experts, you don’t have to. But your position is not based on the evidence. It’s merely a choice. It’s up to you.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's far different than ants, and beetles. Gorillas and chimpanzees might not be as developed. All these animals have degrees of consciousness and are alive though.

Yeah -- degrees of consciousness. Maybe. Ants really do run away as soon as they "sense" my finger near them (not think, at least I don't think they "think" real well...a tad different than humans, but I haven't spoken to an ant lately...or rather, an ant hasn't spoken to me except to annoy me in the kitchen sometimes). God put instinct in these creatures. Humans write books, publish newspapers, and more than any other creature. Amazing differences from any other creation on this earth. Differences that no amount of genetic transfer can bridge. But if you think different, well -- they's you.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's far different than ants, and beetles. Gorillas and chimpanzees might not be as developed. All these animals have degrees of consciousness and are alive though.

Might not be as developed??? Developed as what??? Ants are "developed" one way, or made one way, and gorillas, etc. are made to be another way. All the glories of creation. Actually, each mode of creation is -- fabulous.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm persuaded by my experience with anesthesia.
During anesthesia what happens is oblivion.
The "conscious self" no longer exists.
So if anything survives after death, it isn't the conscious self.
When the inner communication of the brain is interrupted the self ceases to exist.
When the brain dies so does conscious existence.

So this is actual experience to rely on.

Anything else is claims made by people who haven't died, so lack any experience on the question.

From what I understand the Bible to say, and it makes sense, a lot of sense, when we are dead, we know n-o-t-h-i-n-g. And this is wonderful knowledge, I never believed in hellfire anyway. Or the transfer of "soul," something explained in detail in the scriptures that when WE die, the soul is us. It requires study and understanding to comprehend this well, but there IS a future and a hope of life as far as I am concerned. Take care...
I just had an operation. I was given an anesthetic during the operation even though they said I would not be totally put out. At first I didn't want it but the anesthesiologist explained to me it would be better that way since I wouldn't remember the pain or something like that. And guess what? I decided to take it -- and -- guess what? Am I unhappy I didn't remember the operation? Not really.