What happens when the afterlife is only Hell?

[Leftimies]

Shintō holds that everyone ends up in the same kind of afterlife - gloomy, dark and cold realm called Yomi (黄&#27849, wherein everybody resides regardless of whether or not they were good or bad.

I believe similar beliefs were widespread, also present in ancient Finnish religion of Suomenusko as well as Judaism of the Levant.

 

[LuisDantas]

I have tried working this thought out though and I cannot determine which is more productive. To live in heaven to end up in hell or live in hell to end up in heaven. Which promotes a better society?

Isn't this to some degree a function of how specific people deal with current vs future rewards? And also and perhaps even more to how seriously they worry about the idea of an afterlife?

Overall, I think it is counterproductive to talk of afterlives as if they were known to exist.

I cannot see the exact measurable qualities to living a life and ending up in a heaven to be honest. I learnt this in my time as a Muslim. There is nothing great about removing emphasis on this life.

I so agree!

Perhaps it is due to the fact that if one believes he will enter eternal paradise after death he may not care so much about his current life opposed to a person believing he will go to hell after death so he will stride to make his life on earth beautiful.

There is something to that, but it can backfire as well. There are people who swear that "nothing matters" if there is no afterlife. I can only assume that they will feel apathetic or worse if they become convinced that the afterlife exists and is just pointless suffering.

 

[Gehennaite]

The issue though is that you are asserting that god is benevolent while I am not. I truthfully believe that god is not benevolent int he slightest bit.

Even if God were malevolent to some degree, I don't think it is logical to conclude that God would be malevolent to all of mankind.

When we look at the properties inherit in mother nature, especially in humans and animals, and look at the model of aestheticism God has chosen for creation, it is irrational to deduce that God is a sadist. Nature is too beautiful and altruistic.

It is constantly fixated upon our suffering and if an afterlife exist I cannot conclude that a blissful one awaits us.

What is the basis for this statement? In what way and why do you perceive God is "constantly fixated upon our suffering"?

 

[Sha'irullah]

Even if God were malevolent to some degree, I don't think it is logical to conclude that God would be malevolent to all of mankind.

But it is logical. God is not even personal either. As humans beings we all feel suffering thus god is malevolent to all of mankind and creation. There is nothing that does not face misery, destruction nor extinction. This is universal.

When we look at the properties inherit in mother nature, especially in humans and animals, and look at the model of aestheticism God has chosen for creation, it is irrational to deduce that God is a sadist. Nature is too beautiful and altruistic.

Nature is beautiful and this is even more sadistic. You are talking to a sadist. The main goal of a sadist is to degrade superiority. The more beautiful something is the more worthwhile it is to be destroyed. The most beautiful things wither away such as flowers, the sun(I think it is ugly), stars, people we love and even the earth we live on.

What is the basis for this statement? In what way and why do you perceive God is "constantly fixated upon our suffering"?

Take an honest look at the world and tell me what is eternal. If god was an artist he would never want his art to be destroyed, this is the thinking of a sadist(my type of thinking). Benevolence and god are an oxymoron entirely in this world. If god had good intentions for human being then the problem of evil would not be such as issue.

 

[Gehennaite]

But it is logical. God is not even personal either. As humans beings we all feel suffering thus god is malevolent to all of mankind and creation. There is nothing that does not face misery, destruction nor extinction. This is universal.

Nature is beautiful and this is even more sadistic. You are talking to a sadist. The main goal of a sadist is to degrade superiority. The more beautiful something is the more worthwhile it is to be destroyed. The most beautiful things wither away such as flowers, the sun(I think it is ugly), stars, people we love and even the earth we live on.

Take an honest look at the world and tell me what is eternal. If god was an artist he would never want his art to be destroyed, this is the thinking of a sadist(my type of thinking). Benevolence and god are an oxymoron entirely in this world. If god had good intentions for human being then the problem of evil would not be such as issue.

I'm ultimately going to conclude that if God were a sadist, then It's not much of a sadist. Such an entity would be looking to create the most hellish conditions possible. Torment would be constant and experienced without letup.

Giving us a life, such as this, where positivity can be experienced in varying degrees, and ultimately outweigh potential negativity, does not seem to be the product of malevolent logic.

It is more likely that God is either A) amoral or B) benevolent, and either A) made a mistake or B) defined consciousness thusly for reasons indiscernible at this point in time.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'd be afraid of the members' attitude.

 

[JField]

I don't get why any afterlife would be completely painful and full of suffering or a blissful paradise or why there are o my one of two places to go. I also don't believe in a personal creator god so I don't think there is any need for fear of some malevolent God who has such control over our souls.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm ultimately going to conclude that if God were a sadist, then It's not much of a sadist. Such an entity would be looking to create the most hellish conditions possible. Torment would be constant and experienced without letup.

You do not know sadist then it seems. No sadist in his right mind would create a place of pure torment. Why on earth do you think serial killers like targeting specific victims? Without some form of happiness there is no occurrence for sadism. The whole point of sadism is entirely about taking happiness away. We live beautiful lives and die miserably of old age. Sadistic as it gets.
All of these things are things I would do to ensure maximum suffering.

Giving us a life, such as this, where positivity can be experienced in varying degrees, and ultimately outweigh potential negativity, does not seem to be the product of malevolent logic.

It is but you do not understand malevolent logic at all. Debasement is a primary portion of this since without great pleasure one cannot offer great suffering. You cannot make a child feel the regret of loss until you give him a toy and take it from him.

It is more likely that God is either A) amoral or B) benevolent, and either A) made a mistake or B) defined consciousness thusly for reasons indiscernible at this point in time.

Neither of those conclusions can be made using simplistic reasoning except for amorality.

Benevolence. Must I mention that in order for us to be happy we must create this happiness and anything beyond that is subjective experiences of happiness.

A metaphysical being is very unlikely to make a mistake considering it is the source of all things and by things I even mean concepts like perfection.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'd be afraid of the members' attitude.

You're talkin' to one :run:

 

[Sha'irullah]

I don't get why any afterlife would be completely painful and full of suffering or a blissful paradise or why there are o my one of two places to go. I also don't believe in a personal creator god so I don't think there is any need for fear of some malevolent God who has such control over our souls.

I do not believe god is a personal being at all either

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Being promoter of counterculture I have realized that so many religions do their best to provide an afterlife that is peaceful and pleasurable for mankind and our escape from suffering. What if heaven or the afterlife in general is not a place of unlimited happiness but of unlimited or greater misery?
Without action our lives can easily become miserable on earth but that is due to the nature of things as without appropriate actions one cannot survive and will inevitably suffer. What if the afterlife is a place of greater suffering and we are all predestined to go to a hellish afterlife.
Many early pagan cults did not promote a blissful afterlife but a sorrowful one much like that of Sumerian, Mesopotamian, Canaanite, Arabian, Babylonian and early Hellenic cults. The concept of a blissful afterlife is not exactly old and is relatively new when compared to the amount of gloomy concepts of the afterlife.

What would you say to a religion which teaches that the afterlife is eternal suffering? Or in short, "Hell for Everybody".

I wouldn't say Canaanites believed in only Hell, they were given offerings in order to prevent them from disturbing the living, thus this may mean they believed the dead could be appeased.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I wouldn't say Canaanites believed in only Hell, they were given offerings in order to prevent them from disturbing the living, thus this may mean they believed the dead could be appeased.

I never said Canaanites believed in hell. I know exactly what they believed in considering I did heavy amount of research into this years ago. The Mesopotamians where no different I may add. Their concept of Irkalla is just another version of Mot

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I never said Canaanites believed in hell. I know exactly what they believed in considering I did heavy amount of research into this years ago. The Mesopotamians where no different I may add. Their concept of Irkalla is just another version of Mot

Possibly, I know not much when it comes to Mesopotamia. Last time I looked though, not much is recovered regarding the Canaanite concept of afterlife, other than it is fatal, the Land of Mot with foggy detail, and the souls of the dead could return to the living when in need as well as the living could ask them for help when they are in need. I'm open to hearing this new information if you have sources present as I've a strong interest in the Canaanites. All and all, though, we might be saying the same thing. Certainly Land of Mot was nothing overwhelming with joy like a modern concept of heaven, but I've seen nothing that would say it's perfectly damning.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Possibly, I know not much when it comes to Mesopotamia. Last time I looked though, not much is recovered regarding the Canaanite concept of afterlife, other than it is fatal, the Land of Mot with foggy detail, and the souls of the dead could return to the living when in need as well as the living could ask them for help when they are in need. I'm open to hearing this new information if you have sources present as I've a strong interest in the Canaanites. All and all, though, we might be saying the same thing. Certainly Land of Mot was nothing overwhelming with joy like a modern concept of heaven, but I've seen nothing that would say it's perfectly damning.

Sadly I have nothing particularly new when it comes to the Canaanite mythology although I have plenty for the Mesopotamian one.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Carpe diem, "for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."

The afterlife of the Odyssey is pretty hellish as well. Shades of former selves animated by blood.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Carpe diem, "for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom."

The afterlife of the Odyssey is pretty hellish as well. Shades of former selves animated by blood.

Left alone, couldn't that be interpreted to describing the lack of existence?

Also, it seems unlikely to me that the Greeks at all believed in the way it is described literally. Perhaps there's a bunch of slander myth surrounding it - just like how the devil is depicted as a big red guy with horns, but I don't think many Christians who concern themselves with this sort of thing really do believe that's what the devil looks like.

Is it proven to be the belief all over Greece? What about the transmigration of the soul concept shared by Portagoras and Orpheus? Perhaps some believed in a terrible afterlife but not many? If there's an entire culture built around people who believed in such, I'd think it'd be very grimly built and not so much worship for the gods.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Left alone, couldn't that be interpreted to describing the lack of existence?

Also, it seems unlikely to me that the Greeks at all believed in the way it is described literally. Perhaps there's a bunch of slander myth surrounding it - just like how the devil is depicted as a big red guy with horns, but I don't think many Christians who concern themselves with this sort of thing really do believe that's what the devil looks like.

Is it proven to be the belief all over Greece? What about the transmigration of the soul concept shared by Portagoras and Orpheus? Perhaps some believed in a terrible afterlife but not many? If there's an entire culture built around people who believed in such, I'd think it'd be very grimly built and not so much worship for the gods.

In the beginning it was only Asphodel Meadows, land of despair (or so I have read). Then Elysium and Tartarus were added as destinations for mortal praise and torture, respectively.

Sort of like Hel and Valhalla.

 

[Sir Doom]

If I find myself in Hell, I'll just try to escape. I have eternity to figure it out. It should take less than that.

 

[Hawkins]

What would you say to a religion which teaches that the afterlife is eternal suffering? Or in short, "Hell for Everybody".

You need to think only when you have a choice. If that's for everyone simply means that you don't have a choice if it is so. Then you don't even need to think about it.

 

[Mycroft]

Being promoter of counterculture I have realized that so many religions do their best to provide an afterlife that is peaceful and pleasurable for mankind and our escape from suffering. What if heaven or the afterlife in general is not a place of unlimited happiness but of unlimited or greater misery?
Without action our lives can easily become miserable on earth but that is due to the nature of things as without appropriate actions one cannot survive and will inevitably suffer. What if the afterlife is a place of greater suffering and we are all predestined to go to a hellish afterlife.
Many early pagan cults did not promote a blissful afterlife but a sorrowful one much like that of Sumerian, Mesopotamian, Canaanite, Arabian, Babylonian and early Hellenic cults. The concept of a blissful afterlife is not exactly old and is relatively new when compared to the amount of gloomy concepts of the afterlife.

What would you say to a religion which teaches that the afterlife is eternal suffering? Or in short, "Hell for Everybody".

Firstly, who says Hell is a bad place? Bearing in mind that the Bible is a biased source. What objective views are there to support its claim?