What happens when we die?

[Rick O'Shez]

There is no death.
We don't die.
Individual (ego) consciousness passes into the nothingness from which it came.

So in your belief what is it that persists?

 

[Ben Avraham]

What happens when we die? Well for some, they put the body in a car and drive real slow around town causing traffic to be held up, until they get to a hole they dug in the ground. A priest/preacher talks about what a good person you were, and one or two people cry. And that is if you are lucky. That's what happens when a lucky person dies.

What is the use of being lucky ones if we are dead? So, I hope to live as long as possible, at least ad 120 bzrat HaShem!

 

[Acim]

So in your belief what is it that persists?

In my understanding, the essence of our being. If I were to specify how I understand this, it is a thought, yet unlike the way we (may) currently understand thinking / mere thoughts.

 

[moorea944]

I believe you have been duped by someone, the JW's?

So you don't believe in the words of scripture then? Sounds like you've been duped by someone......

Are you telling me that you believe in life after death?

 

[Ben Avraham]

Muffled,
It is extremely important to understand what the Bible says about death. The truth is, no on can understand the Bible's message unless they understand what death is.
There are many Scriptures about death, but it seems that people only believe what they want to believe, no matter what the Bible says.
Notice first what God told Adam about his coming death, Genesis 3:19. God told Adam that he was dust and that he would return to dust!! So why do people believe that dead people go to heaven, was it to reward Adam because he had disobeyed God??
The Bible actually shows that, as far as death is concerned, people are no different than animals, who are also called souls, Ecclesiastes 3:18-20. The term breath, Hebrew Ruach, means spirit also, which is a force from God, that stops at death, or figuratively, returns to God, Ecclesiastes 12:7. Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10, tells us about death, there is no knowledge, the we must not do unto others
what we would not like they did unto ourselves. I bet Jesus would not have like to be addressed as a hypocrite and brood
of vipers. So, he broke the Golden Rule. Mind you also that the Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue. Serious transgressions right there. Bottom line, Jesus was not perfect but a sinner just like you and me.dead know nothing at all, and they have no part in anything done under the sun, no work no planning no wisdom.
It seem very clear what we are told at, Psalms 146:3,4, on the day we die our spirit goes out, back to God, and our thoughts stop, perish, die.
Job has some interesting points about death! Job actually wanted to die to get out of his misery, Job 14:13. There must not be torment there. At Job 14:1,2 tells us that a man's days are few, he comes like a flower, then cut down, and like a shadow, he does not continue.
Job 14:21 tells us that when a man dies, if his sons are honored, he does not know it. Why??? Because he knows nothing, because his thoughts have stopped!!
Another point to show that there is no feeling in death is; at death Jesus went into Hades, or the grave, Acts 2:27,31. Jesus was perfect, never sinned!!! Jesus surely would not have gone into a place of torment!!! Also Psalms 6:4,5, 115:17, The dead do not praise God!!!

That's a very good post that represents the truth from the beginning and almost to the end. But you had to add the pointless gullibility to say that Jesus was perfect in the sense that he never sinned. If you read Ecclesiastes 7:20 "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." It is only obvious that Jesus is included since he was a man upon earth and, only in the text of Mat.23:13-33 Jesus broke the Golden Rule 15 times when he insulted the Pharisees with being hypocrites and brood of vipers. The Golden Rule states
not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. I am sure Jesus would not have liked to have been addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers. So, he broke the Golden Rule. And mind you something else: The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue which means, serious transgressions to break it.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

The lord himself says that if you "lose your soul" you will "save it" (Lk9.24) the Greek often rendered as destroy and not "lose". Thus now it seems that the destroying of the soul will save the soul.

For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.

Those who fear dying will die more readily than those who are brave and not afraid of death.
Fortune favors the brave.

 

[viole]

This kind of goes up the ally of this verse: Ecclesiastes 12:7

"then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it."

Sometimes the Bible surprises me a bit compared to what I hear often.

Yes, with the possible exception of that spirit returning to God. I do not, or my spirit does not, recollect having been with any God at any moment in the past

Ciao

- viole

 

[12jtartar]

That's a very good post that represents the truth from the beginning and almost to the end. But you had to add the pointless gullibility to say that Jesus was perfect in the sense that he never sinned. If you read Ecclesiastes 7:20 "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." It is only obvious that Jesus is included since he was a man upon earth and, only in the text of Mat.23:13-33 Jesus broke the Golden Rule 15 times when he insulted the Pharisees with being hypocrites and brood of vipers. The Golden Rule states
not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. I am sure Jesus would not have liked to have been addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers. So, he broke the Golden Rule. And mind you something else: The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue which means, serious transgressions to break it.

Ben Avraham,
The Bible makes the point several times that Jesus never sinned, 1Peter 2:22. There several Scriptures that tell that there is no man that HSBC not sinned, but of course, that does not include the son of God.
What really makes me wonder is that most Jews do not believe the Hebrew Scriptures, in which they say they put faith.
Jews do not believe that the Messiah has come, even though Daniel gave the exact year that the Messiah would come, and that year the Jews were looking for him, Luke 3:15, Daniel 9:24-27.
This unbelief is in spite of the fact that God had Jeremiah write that the Mosaic Law Covenant was only an interim Covenant, which would end with the coming of the Messiah, Galatians 3:21-25, Jeremiah 31:31-34.
The word, in Greek that is usually translated testament, is more accurately translated Covenant, therefore the Greek scriptures should be translated The New Covenant, not The New Testament.
All through the Greek Scriptures we are told that no one could be saved by obeying the Mosaic Law Covenant. Which do you think would be more important a Covenant based on the Blood of goats and bulls or a Covenant based on the Blood of God's own son, Jesus, the Messiah, Christ.
Since the time that Daniel wrote that the Messiah would come has long passed,where is your hope???
The Bible also tells us that all the nations will be blessed because of Abraham, Genesis 22:18, but you believe that only the Jews are God's chosen people. This is because you still have the veil over your eyes just as the time of the Israelites at the mountain, 1Corinthians 3:12-18.
Jesus mentioned that not one of the Jews obeyed the Law, John 7:19. Just how many times do you think that the Jews could rebel against God and He would continue to forgive them???Read the Psalms 105-106.
When Jesus came on the scene he was given miraculous powers so that the Jews would understand that God was starting something different. It had to be something very powerful because the Jews had been under the Mosaic Law Covenant over 1,500 years. Only the ones that were followers and were baptized as Jesus was received those powerful Gifts of the spirit.
One of the main proofs that Jesus was the Messiah was his powers, so much that even his enemies wrote about him, Origen, Josephus.
Remember, all things were to be proven by two or three witnesses, Deuteronomy 19:15. There were many Jews of the first century that believed on Jesus, the ones who loved him, and ones who hated him. All proved his identity as the Messiah!!!
So much has been written about Jesus, that many historians say that there is more proof about Jesus than Abraham Lincoln.
If you have a good concordance, lookup the Scriptures that were written in the Hebrew Scriptures that he fulfilled. There are several dozen, very conservatively, which makes it an impossibility for anyone to fulfill these Scriptures, unless he was, positively the Messiah.
It is time to remove the veil from your eyes!!! There is ONE name under heaven, that has been given to men, by which we MUST be saved, Acts 4:12-14, 5:32-39.
Agape!!!

 

[12jtartar]

That's a very good post that represents the truth from the beginning and almost to the end. But you had to add the pointless gullibility to say that Jesus was perfect in the sense that he never sinned. If you read Ecclesiastes 7:20 "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." It is only obvious that Jesus is included since he was a man upon earth and, only in the text of Mat.23:13-33 Jesus broke the Golden Rule 15 times when he insulted the Pharisees with being hypocrites and brood of vipers. The Golden Rule states
not to do unto others what we would not like they did unto ourselves. I am sure Jesus would not have liked to have been addressed as a hypocrite and brood of vipers. So, he broke the Golden Rule. And mind you something else: The Golden Rule covers the whole second part of the Decalogue which means, serious transgressions to break it.

Ben Avraham,
The Bible makes the point several times that Jesus never sinned, 1Peter 2:22. There several Scriptures that tell that there is no man that HSBC not sinned, but of course, that does not include the son of God.
What really makes me wonder is that most Jews do not believe the Hebrew Scriptures, in which they say they put faith.
Jews do not believe that the Messiah has come, even though Daniel gave the exact year that the Messiah would come, and that year the Jews were looking for him, Luke 3:15, Daniel 9:24-27.
This unbelief is in spite of the fact that God had Jeremiah write that the Mosaic Law Covenant was only an interim Covenant, which would end with the coming of the Messiah, Galatians 3:21-25, Jeremiah 31:31-34.
The word, in Greek that is usually translated testament, is more accurately translated Covenant, therefore the Greek scriptures should be translated The New Covenant, not The New Testament.
All through the Greek Scriptures we are told that no one could be saved by obeying the Mosaic Law Covenant. Which do you think would be more important a Covenant based on the Blood of goats and bulls or a Covenant based on the Blood of God's own son, Jesus, the Messiah, Christ.
Since the time that Daniel wrote that the Messiah would come has long passed,where is your hope???
The Bible also tells us that all the nations will be blessed because of Abraham, Genesis 22:18, but you believe that only the Jews are God's chosen people. This is because you still have the veil over your eyes just as the time of the Israelites at the mountain, 1Corinthians 3:12-18.
Jesus mentioned that not one of the Jews obeyed the Law, John 7:19. Just how many times do you think that the Jews could rebel against God and He would continue to forgive them???Read the Psalms 105-106.
When Jesus came on the scene he was given miraculous powers so that the Jews would understand that God was starting something different. It had to be something very powerful because the Jews had been under the Mosaic Law Covenant over 1,500 years. Only the ones that were followers and were baptized as Jesus was received those powerful Gifts of the spirit.
One of the main proofs that Jesus was the Messiah was his powers, so much that even his enemies wrote about him, Origen, Josephus.
Remember, all things were to be proven by two or three witnesses, Deuteronomy 19:15. There were many Jews of the first century that believed on Jesus, the ones who loved him, and ones who hated him. All proved his identity as the Messiah!!!
So much has been written about Jesus, that many historians say that there is more proof about Jesus than Abraham Lincoln.
If you have a good concordance, lookup the Scriptures that were written in the Hebrew Scriptures that he fulfilled. There are several dozen, very conservatively, which makes it an impossibility for anyone to fulfill these Scriptures, unless he was, positively the Messiah.
It is time to remove the veil from your eyes!!! There is ONE name under heaven, that has been given to men, by which we MUST be saved, Acts 4:12-14, 5:32-39.
Agape!!!

 

[MonkeyFire]

You don't die you ignite.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Ben Avraham,
All through the Greek Scriptures we are told that no one could be saved by obeying the Mosaic Law Covenant...

True .. nobody will be saved without God's mercy, regardless of their religion. That is not the same thing as saying that there is no need for 'the law'

 

[MonkeyFire]

True .. nobody will be saved without God's mercy, regardless of their religion. That is not the same thing as saying that there is no need for 'the law'

Law is will and determinism. Its what you will do.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Ben Avraham, The Bible makes the point several times that Jesus never sinned, 1Peter 2:22. There several Scriptures that tell that there is no man that HSBC not sinned, but of course, that does not include the son of God.

Oh! Very good! In that case, God's People Israel is not included. HaShem said, "Israel is My Son" if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

What really makes me wonder is that most Jews do not believe the Hebrew Scriptures, in which they say they put faith.

The Hebrew Scriptures does not speak about Jesus.

Jews do not believe that the Messiah has come, even though Daniel gave the exact year that the Messiah would come, and that year the Jews were looking for him, Luke 3:15, Daniel 9:24-27.

Who told you that we don't believe the Messiah has come? We believe the Messiah has come three times already. The first time from Egypt when Moses, the Messianic leader guided the Messiah back to the Promised Land. The second time from Babylon when Cyrus proclaimed freedom to the Jews and financed the rebuilding of the Temple. And the third time from the four corners of the earth when the Messianic leader was Theodor Herzl who imbued love for Zion into the heats of the Jews. With Jesus'
birth the Messiah was at home though under cruel occupation, which occupation only got worse during Jesus' lifetime and soon after his death, they destroyed the Temple. I tell you: Jesus did not deserve even the title of a Messianic leader, let alone the Messiah, not offense meant!

This unbelief is in spite of the fact that God had Jeremiah write that the Mosaic Law Covenant was only an interim Covenant, which would end with the coming of the Messiah, Galatians 3:21-25, Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Galatians 3:21-25 is an attempt at promoting the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology.

The word, in Greek that is usually translated testament, is more accurately translated Covenant, therefore the Greek scriptures should be translated The New Covenant, not The New Testament.

The New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, not with Christians.(Jer. 31:31)

All through the Greek Scriptures we are told that no one could be saved by obeying the Mosaic Law Covenant.

Are you sure! It means you don't have much of a handling of the Greek Scriptures. Jesus himself said that to achieve salvation one must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. Read Luke 16:29-31.

Which do you think would be more important a Covenant based on the Blood of goats and bulls or a Covenant based on the Blood of God's own son, Jesus, the Messiah, Christ.

Neither! The Sinaitic Covenant was not based on the blood of goats and bulls nor was the New Covenant based on the blood of Jesus. They were both based on the obedience of the Law.

Since the time that Daniel wrote that the Messiah would come has long passed,where is your hope???

My hope is in the Messiah according to Prophet Habakkuk 3:13. "The Lord goes forth to save His PEOPLE; to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel the Son of God if you read Exodus 4:22,23.

The Bible also tells us that all the nations will be blessed because of Abraham, Genesis 22:18, but you believe that only the Jews are God's chosen people. This is because you still have the veil over your eyes just as the time of the Israelites at the mountain, 1Corinthians 3:12-18.

Not because I believe but because the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach says so almost everywhere. BTW, Genesis 22:18 says that all the nations on earth shall bless themselves on the descendants of Abraham aka the Jewish People because Abraham obeyed the commandments of HaShem.

Jesus mentioned that not one of the Jews obeyed the Law, John 7:19. Just how many times do you think that the Jews could rebel against God and He would continue to forgive them???Read the Psalms 105-106.

That's not from Jesus but from the Hellenist who wrote the gospel of John. Regarding how many times HaShem will forgive the Jews! Forever. True that He will chastise us as we deserve but He will never get rid of us if youJeremiah 46:28.

When Jesus came on the scene he was given miraculous powers so that the Jews would understand that God was starting something different. It had to be something very powerful because the Jews had been under the Mosaic Law Covenant over 1,500 years. Only the ones that were followers and were baptized as Jesus was received those powerful Gifts of the spirit.

The only time when HaShem started something different was when He rejected the Tabernacle of Joseph aka the Ten Tribes and confirmed Judah to remain alone as the only Kingdom of Israel. (Psalm 78:67-70)

One of the main proofs that Jesus was the Messiah was his powers, so much that even his enemies wrote about him, Origen, Josephus.

Jesus could not have been the Messiah! The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Remember, all things were to be proven by two or three witnesses, Deuteronomy 19:15. There were many Jews of the first century that believed on Jesus, the ones who loved him, and ones who hated him. All proved his identity as the Messiah!!!

Please, mention to me one that "proved" Jesus' identity as the Messiah. BTW, what did Jesus do to deserve the title of Messiah? Moses brought the Israelites from exile and back to the Land of Israel and proved to be only a Messianic leader for the Messiah. Later, Cyrus proclaimed freedom to the Jews from exile and financed the rebuilding of the Temple and won from Isaiah the title of an anointed one aka a Messianic leader. (Isaiah 45:1) The third time if was from the four corners of the earth and, the Messianic leader was Theodor Herzl who imbued love for Zion into the hearts of the Jews.

So much has been written about Jesus, that many historians say that there is more proof about Jesus than Abraham Lincoln.

You can say that again! It is indeed amazing! But he was not the Messiah, unless as part of Israel, the Son of God according to Exodus 4:22,23.

If you have a good concordance, lookup the Scriptures that were written in the Hebrew Scriptures that he fulfilled. There are several dozen, very conservatively, which makes it an impossibility for anyone to fulfill these Scriptures,unless he was, positively the Messiah.

Since Jesus as an individual could not have been the Messiah, he fulfilled none of the Messianic prophecies in the Tanach.

It is time to remove the veil from your eyes!!! There is ONE name under heaven, that has been given to men, by which we MUST be saved, Acts 4:12-14, 5:32-39.

And that name under heaven given to men is the Law which Jesus said as long as heaven and earth exist, it will never pass away. (Mat 5:17-19) That's why he said we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) The Psalmist also said that the Word of God aka the Truth was given to Israel only and to no other people on earth. (Psalm 147:19,20) Since Jesus himself said that the Jews are the light of the world, according to Mat. 5:14, when are you going to remove the veil from your eyes and allow yourself to see the light?

 

[Kemosloby]

If the "wages of sin is death" (Rom 6.23) why are we resurrected? For there is a "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous" (Acts 24.15). Is it so we can "all stand before the judgement seat of God" (Rom 14.10), and if so, why would we want to when we have already died for our sins? And also, if God can "destroy both body and soul in Gehenna" (Mt10.28) and if that is what the resurrection is about, why does he resurrect the soul when he already knows the body? And if the soul has it made clear what the facts are, why would it defy and die? And why stand before his judgement seat anyway considering we are "judged already" (Jh3.18- normally says 'condemned'). And if the body dies through sin and therefore judgement, why judge the soul. Is it that the body is judged and dies? and then the soul the second death? (Rev) But if that is complete destruction, how then is Christ, "the saviour of the world" (Jh4.42) and also it says of God, "will have all mankind(anthropos) saved" (1Tim2.4) Surely if the Christ is the Saviour of the world, he will save it and therefore all mankind is saved. But how then do they die? The soul must survive if the body dies in order that "all mankind" is saved. Yet we know he can destroy "body and soul", so does this mean there are many levels of soul, or perhaps there is a deeper self to the person.
Yet (1Pet2.11) says that worldly passions in the body "war against the soul". In (Jms5.20) turning someone from their sins will "save a soul from death" which fits the lords words and Gehenna. It is appointed that "all mankind shall die once and then face judgement" (Heb9.27). The lord himself says that if you "lose your soul" you will "save it" (Lk9.24) the Greek often rendered as destroy and not "lose". Thus now it seems that the destroying of the soul will save the soul. Is this the same soul we speak of? And though Peter spoke to many and could have therefore been speaking in the plural, is says that "you have received the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls(1Pet1.9) which we might take as being more than one soul if we take scripture as sacred text which stands apart and also together. Is that the clue? Are there more than one soul as the anceints used to think? If so, then a soul and body can be destroyed and yet all mankind can be saved. Rebirth or reincarnation as some say would then be right. And the lord says that you "must be born again" if you are to enter the kingdom of God (Jh3.3) to which Nicodemus asks him, "can you enter your mother's womb again". What if you can? If there is a spiritual mother, then why not? For Paul tells us that surely if there is a natural body there is a spiritual body.
It would mean that the new testament, much like the old testament, is speaking about a people, a land, a slice of time.... yet to be repeated many times over. Consider this, if we are from God, how can he do anything but save us. Does he not have a vested interest? Does he not look at himself?

So the question, what happens when we die?

It's possible there are multiple meanings. Symbolic meaning and a more literal meaning such as physical death and resurrection. Symbolically we die to sin (repent), then literally die, the "belly of the Earth" or grave is likened to a pregnant woman waiting to give up her dead. So symbolically in life we die to sin (repent) and be born again, then we literally die to sin and face resurrection and judgement, born again. Whether everyone is saved or not I don't know, but surely those who repent and turn to the Lord in this life will have a better lot in the next life.

 

[wicketkeeper]

Humans are so super imporant we get to live for eternity! YAY Humans!

^^^THIS ! ^^^

Our arrogance and lack of respect to our fellow travelers, and planetary home is seen by the state of the planet. If we carry on as we are doing then the End is nigh.

 

[pearl]

What happens when we die?

Good question, but since we all live on this side of death, no one knows.

 

[Ben Avraham]

What happens when we die?

Good question, but since we all live on this side of death, no one knows.

I do! And how I do is proved by evidences of daily life. When we die we are taken to Sheol aka the grave. Can you contradict what I am saying? I didn't think so!

 

[psychoslice]

Life after death is nothing but a egocentric wish, get over it, when your dead your dead !.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Life after death is nothing but a egocentric wish, get over it, when your dead your dead !.

Cal hacavod! I thought you would be afraid to say the truth and you finally did it!

 

[psychoslice]

Cal hacavod! I thought you would be afraid to say the truth and you finally did it!

Don't be silly please.