What I see as irresistable about Islam

[sandandfoam]

Well tell me where the first quote came from and I can give you my opinion of the thread.

Hands down, the first quote is more beautiful than the second quote. Now if they both came from the Quran, it would be more beautiful.

It came from a book called the Essence of Sufism by John Baldock

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It came from a book called the Essence of Sufism by John Baldock

That's cool, so again the first quote is much deeper than the second, still the second quote alone can be forced to be deep, and yet again together they are quite nice.
Which is why I said if they came from the same book it would just be icing on the cake. OK, I'll take my craziness elsewhere...

 

[sandandfoam]

That's cool, so again the first quote is much deeper than the second, still the second quote alone can be forced to be deep, and yet again together they are quite nice.
Which is why I said if they came from the same book it would just be icing on the cake. OK, I'll take my craziness elsewhere...

Thanks for your comments mike

 

[Alex_G]

I read this ages ago and it really stuck in my mind "Islam is not a historical phenomenon that began 1,400 years ago. It is the timeless art of awakening by means of submission"
and in the Quran (3 190) "Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding."

Between these two quotes is an intoxicating mix that makes me breathe easily and step lightly. There is a beauty in Islam that is almost blinding to me. I know the beauty is not seen by everyone, but anyway, I thought I'd share.

I have to say that for me, i have an almost visceral response to the word 'submission'. I just don’t like the word, as i feel it holds many negative connotations and feelings of forcefulness. I’m uneasy about any state of mind that might be considered submissive, as it plays into the hands of a hierarchical system, and makes me feel more of a prisoner than it does uplift and spiritually fulfil me. Which makes me less connected or inspired by the quotations as yourself. I would like to have seen some kind of MRI scan of my brain as i read those quotes, and compared it to yours reading them for the first time

Alex

 

[sandandfoam]

I would like to have seen some kind of MRI scan of my brain as i read those quotes, and compared it to yours reading them for the first time

Alex

That would be very cool

 

[bain-druie]

I love the way you describe your feelings about those quotes; I can relate your experience to my own experience nestling in the embrace of an ancient tree, or watching the sun set over the ocean, or 100 other beautiful, transcendent moments. However, and this is where it's so good to have many divergent paths, regarding submission I agree with Alex. My parents raised me in a very authoritative, abusive religious cult run by a misogynist. All women were taught submission; it never stopped, the endless conditioning of leaders insisting on absolute submission without question.

So for me, while there is an element of surrender in mystical experience (such as shamanic journeying and so forth), it is never a surrender to another mind. I find it joyous and comforting to be on a path in which I am asked to find and exert my strength, never to abdicate my will to another.

I have read the Quran, and I have Muslim friends, and I know without doubt that I would be absolutely miserable in Islam. It is not for me; but as Joseph Campbell would say, we all follow our bliss. I am glad you have found yours, as I have found mine in a VERY different path.

 

[Starsoul]

I have to say that for me, i have an almost visceral response to the word 'submission'. I just don’t like the word, as i feel it holds many negative connotations and feelings of forcefulness. I’m uneasy about any state of mind that might be considered submissive, as it plays into the hands of a hierarchical system, and makes me feel more of a prisoner than it does uplift and spiritually fulfil me. Which makes me less connected or inspired by the quotations as yourself. I would like to have seen some kind of MRI scan of my brain as i read those quotes, and compared it to yours reading them for the first time

One can understand why anyone would have an issue with the word submission. But then, this act is solely for those who truly desire to submit, and that phase comes usually somewhere in our lives where you just don't want to the submit to the system of this world subconsciously, and you need to liberate your inner sense of peace from all the material things surrounding you; you desire to belong to something beyond it, something forever and ethereal, just beyond it all.

In short, I could almost say that 'submission' is a bit of a misnomer, as it brings one of the most liberating feelings that one can go through, and it just sets you free, free, free. Nothing can compare to this freedom, Nothing.

Must say that one's spiritual status has to become receptive, extremely desirous for that submission to let it liberate you. If one is at a spiritual constant, lacking the conscious awareness of that 'need to submit', things wont happen. But one can always wish, who knows : )

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

I will admit that there are times when I leave work early in the morning and see the Sun begin to rise over the horizon with violets and lazy blues that I feel the urge to shout "Allaaaaaaaaaaaah" as loud as I can.

My inner theist perhaps.

 

[Starsoul]

I will admit that there are times when I leave work early in the morning and see the Sun begin to rise over the horizon with violets and lazy blues that I feel the urge to shout "Allaaaaaaaaaaaah" as loud as I can.

My inner theist perhaps.

You can try it sometime, doesn't mean you cant say it if one is not a muslim yet : )

 

[GabrielWithoutWings]

Let's not forget that the sons of Ishmael did not receive in the blessings of Isaac. The seed of Isaac were blessed, not Ismael. Secondly, the prophets of the old testament explained in detail about the coming of the messiah, even saying where he would be born. Now the deascendants of ismael have their back against this man, Yahshua El Massiach(greek:Jesus the Christ), and made up their own 'rituals' to be acceptable by God. They don't follow Gods way, but their own man-made doctrines. Irresistable?? What in Heavens name are you talking about here???

Right, except for the fact that the Old Testament written by Jews were later reinterpreted into a more Hellenic-Mediterranean friendly view, even going so far as saying that the Jews missed their own Saviour. Ask a Jew about something in the Old Testament you think points to Jesus and I guarantee you they'll say it's been misinterpreted.

So basically what you're saying is that it's okay when YOU do it, right?

 

[K.Venugopal]

Yes I imagine it is so.
I think that all a person can do is to try and come to terms with the wonder of being. Peace. My attempt to do so has brought me here. I find Islam irresistable, it sates my hunger and calms me.
I have no doubt but that others find their fill elsewhere and who am I to knock it? I am happy for anyone who can find a measure of peace. On my reading that is the message of Islam. I know there are others who would disagree - but when we find something from nationality to religion to a football club to follow we must internalise it and it becomes a part of us. This is what Islam means to me, peace tolerance and reconciliation with being.

Your approach is truly liberal. In a way more liberal than Allah himself. Allah would have nothing of the sort. He would roast alive eternally in hell those who do not believe Him!

 

[Thief]

At this point....I am dismayed.....almost heart broken.

It is correct and proper to stand under the night sky in awe of heaven.
It is correct to give praise at the first light of morning.

It is completely false and foolish to say to your fellow man.....submit.

To know God is to be free.

Your only duty...should it come your way.....
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

 

[sandandfoam]

Your only duty...should it come your way.....
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

No that is definitively not my duty because not everyone would like done unto them what I like to be done unto me

 

[sandandfoam]

Beating of disobedient wives, perversion of marrying 12 year old girls and chopping off heads. Its very attractive indeed >-(

When I meet people who can spell before they can think it makes me marvel at the wonder of the human mind.

 

[sandandfoam]

It is completely false and foolish to say to your fellow man.....submit.

It is worth mentioning that neither I nor any other muslim are telling anyone to submit.

To know God is to be free

I agree.

 

[Thief]

Must have hit a nerve.

 

[K.Venugopal]

It is worth mentioning that neither I nor any other muslim are telling anyone to submit.

Maybe Muslims such as you are going beyond Allah's directive. But I think the Quran is all about its call to submission [to Allah]. Is not the Quran supposed to be a message for everyone?

 

[Chisti]

Maybe Muslims such as you are going beyond Allah's directive. But I think the Quran is all about its call to submission [to Allah]. Is not the Quran supposed to be a message for everyone?

It means surrendering one's ego.

 

[K.Venugopal]

It means surrendering one's ego.

I think an advice not to be egoistic is different from surrendering to Allah, whose is a particular teaching which we are expected to accept after renouncing other teachings (which might not be contrarian teachings).

 

[sandandfoam]

I think an advice not to be egoistic is different from surrendering to Allah, whose is a particular teaching which we are expected to accept after renouncing other teachings (which might not be contrarian teachings).

I posted earlier in the thread what I think submission is

I think submission means surrender to God. I don't think that this surrender is like a light switch - not submitted/submitted, I think it is a process. I believe at my core I know God and the surrender is a cessation of swimming against the tide and a turn towards God. It is embracing the wonderment of a wild Ocean and a moonlit sky, it is following the heart.