What if Adam and Eve wouldn't have sinned?

[Katzpur]

Are you sure Adam and Eve had free will in the way Christians say they did and we do? The Bible clearly says they didn’t.... (Not that I think they existed)

Genesis 3.22 are given this

“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; “ I don’t know about you but this says to me that they could not tell the difference between good and evil before eating the fruit. Obviously they could not obey since they could not comprehend that God is good and the serpent is bad. So Adam and Eve didn't sin...

I believe they had free will because they were not forced to eat the forbidden fruit. It was a choice they made as as result of their free will. But I do agree with you that they didn't actually sin. Sinning involves the voluntary transgression of a religious law or moral principle. Before they ate the fruit, the idea of a moral principle was as foreign to them as it is to a two-year old. Mind you, I'm not saying they had the mental capability of a two-year old; I'm saying they were unable to actually sin until they were able to comprehend what sin was. That's why I believe the fall to have been a necessary part of God's plan.

 

[DC85]

Then why put them in the garden in the first place? Why not just make them with that knowledge?

 

[Cordoba]

Are you sure Adam and Eve had free will in the way Christians say they did and we do? The Bible clearly says they didn’t

My main reference is the Qur'an, where God says the following:

"And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you are your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers.

But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time.

Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the accepting of repentance, the Merciful." (2:35-37)

Adam was instructed by God not to approach a tree in Paradise, and therefore had a free will to obey or disobey. Under the influence of Satan, Adam forgot God's command, despite God's warning.

God later tought Adam how to repent, and when he did God accepted his repentance.

He is The Most Merciful.

 

[true blood]

Are you sure Adam and Eve had free will in the way Christians say they did and we do? The Bible clearly says they didn’t.... (Not that I think they existed)

Genesis 3.22 are given this

“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; “ I don’t know about you but this says to me that they could not tell the difference between good and evil before eating the fruit. Obviously they could not obey since they could not comprehend that God is good and the serpent is bad. So Adam and Eve didn't sin...

But God did give them a commandment not to eat of the fruit. When they ate of the fruit they disobey. This is known as sin. Also its interesting that when Eve was talking with the serpent she told a lie. She had told the serpent that God had told her not to even touch the fruit, something he never commanded. So even before "gaining" the knowledge of good and evil, Eve did not speak the truth of what God had commanded.

 

[michel]

God's original intention was that they would sin. I mean, he is all-powerful, so that means that nothing happens that he doesn't want to happen, right?

Ceridwen, do you actually believe that - or was it sarcasm ?
I'm a theist, I believe that there is a deity, but I don't for a moment believe that there was an Adam and an Eve."so that means that nothing happens that he doesn't want to happen, right?"

That is wrong too (for me, that is). If God has already made up his mind as to what is going to happen, when and where, there would be no point in our trudging through life would there ?

 

[Cordoba]

But God did give them a commandment not to eat of the fruit. When they ate of the fruit they disobey. This is known as sin.

Exactly. That was the first sin which caused Adam and Eve to leave Paradise.

And by the way, it wasn't Eve's mistake. Satan lead both of them astray, and is man's worst enemy. Satan was cursed by God for ever for refusing to prostrate to Adam as per God's Command, and for this he promised to take his revenge from all mankind. The only ones he can't harm are God's sincere and knowledgeable believers.

Humans were meant to live on earth and "earn" their place of return in Paradise, and that's what this life is all about!

 

[Cordoba]

If God has already made up his mind as to what is going to happen, when and where, there would be no point in our trudging through life would there ?

God is The All-Knowing.

He knows who will believe and obey and who won't.

However, He does not judge us based on His knowledge. The purpose of going through life is that we will be judged in the Hereafter according to our own free deeds.

It's like a professor who knows from experience the students who deservse to pass the course, and those who don't. However, to be fair, he must give all students a chance to go through an exam or evalution so that they are graded based on their own performance not based on the professor's knowledge.

If not, the student would always have the excuse "I deserve to pass the course and was never given a chance!"

 

[dorsk188]

It is impossible for Adam and Eve to refrain from sinning. When God put them near the damned tree, he said don't eat from it. Then, Adam and Eve woke up every day with a question: Eat from it or not? Being obedient, naive creatures, they did as they were told for an indeterminent amount of time. Let's consider for a moment if the serpent didn't exist at all.

If Adam and Eve actually had free will, they were given a choice: Eat or don't. Or at least, that's how most Jews/Christians/Muslims frame it. All Adam and Eve had to do was not eat that fruit. But there was no real choice. The choice was never "Eat or don't." It was rather: "Eat or delay decision to tomorrow." There was no out. Adam was trapped into a dasterdly plan by God from day 6. Either sin, or wait to sin later.

Largely a reason I don't like the monotheistic gods, is this story. Adam could not die unless he sinned, so it was merely a matter of time before he tripped one day and accidentally slammed his face into a fruit. What was the Douglas Adams quote? "When you deal with people who place bricks under hats, they'll always get you in the end."

 

[Melody]

In that case homosexuality is alright? ( I will open a new topic if you guys want)

Except that there's a NT passage that some will interpret to say the same thing.

 

[eternalsaint]

free will. God allowed Adam and Eve to make their own decisions. He knew what was to come and had prepared for it before it happened. He doesn't make our decisions for us, he just asks us to obey.

 

[Betho_br]

Technically, Eve did not sin; she was deceived by the serpent. After theological debate, Eve came to mistakenly believe that the tree in the middle of the garden was forbidden to eat, but it was actually the tree of life. This confusion arose because Eve was created after Adam had received God's orders. In other words, she did not receive the commands directly from God but through Adam.