What, if Anything, is the Importance of Religious Beliefs?

[Sunstone]

What is the importance of religious beliefs? Are they crucial or necessary to salvation, enlightenment (satori, etc), or spiritual development? If so, why? If not, why not?

I would argue that all beliefs (and conscious thought in general) are to reality more or less what a map is to its terrain. That is, a belief is not the reality it refers to, but rather what a map is to the reality or terrain it refers to. e.g. If I say that I believe Jesus Christ is my savior, that does not necessarily mean I have any actual experience of Jesus Christ saving me, or of his salvation. No more than if I look at a map of a trail up a mountain, and then say, "Oh, I believe this trail goes to the top of the mountain."

I would further argue that humans are, for some unknown reason, quite prone to mistaking beliefs for the realities they refer to. That is equivalent to mistaking a map for the terrain it refers to. e.g. After years of study, I come to the belief that my teacher is correct in saying that everything I had once considered real -- this universe, matter, my body, my individual will, etc -- is actually not real, and that the only thing which is actually real is Brahman. But because I mistake the belief for the reality, the map for the terrain, I now think that I am somehow more spiritually developed than I was before I came to the belief that only Brahman is real. Yet, that is almost precisely like my thinking that, because I have looked at a map and come to the belief that the map truly represents the trail up a mountain, I have actually progressed in some fashion along the trail.

In my view, beliefs are much overrated. They can at the very best serve as accurate maps to realities, but they are far too often substituted for the actual experience of those realities.

But what do you think?

 

[fantome profane]

What is the importance of religious beliefs? Are they crucial or necessary to salvation, enlightenment (satori, etc), or spiritual development? If so, why? If not, why not?

I would argue that all beliefs (and conscious thought in general) are to reality more or less what a map is to its terrain. That is, a belief is not the reality it refers to, but rather what a map is to the reality or terrain it refers to. e.g. If I say that I believe Jesus Christ is my savior, that does not necessarily mean I have any actual experience of Jesus Christ saving me, or of his salvation. No more than if I look at a map of a trail up a mountain, and then say, "Oh, I believe this trail goes to the top of the mountain."

I would further argue that humans are, for some unknown reason, quite prone to mistaking beliefs for the realities they refer to. That is equivalent to mistaking a map for the terrain it refers to. e.g. After years of study, I come to the belief that my teacher is correct in saying that everything I had once considered real -- this universe, matter, my body, my individual will, etc -- is actually not real, and that the only thing which is actually real is Brahman. But because I mistake the belief for the reality, the map for the terrain, I now think that I am somehow more spiritually developed than I was before I came to the belief that only Brahman is real. Yet, that is almost precisely like my thinking that, because I have looked at a map and come to the belief that the map truly represents the trail up a mountain, I have actually progressed in some fashion along the trail.

In my view, beliefs are much overrated. They can at the very best serve as accurate maps to realities, but they are far too often substituted for the actual experience of those realities.

But what do you think?

For the purpose of this question, what is the difference between a religious belief, and a non-religious belief?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

It is experience, in my experience, of the reality that is important. The map is just a map, a belief--even if well-justified through experience--is still just a belief.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I started watching the introduction to a video series on the history of Egypt. It was part of a series called Great Courses. The professor was a man who began bringing me up to speed on how important Egypt was/is and how we know so much more about Egypt than about other ancient cultures such as the Mayans.

Then he showed me a picture of an ancient burial site in which a body had been buried along with everyday items such as clay items and jewelry. He said that Egyptologists inferred from this that Egyptians believed in an afterlife.

Inferred? That did not follow logically. I saw no reason to presume that Egyptians believed in an afterlife just based upon the burial site. Religion is not 'What you think about death'. Religion is how you live, and it covers all kinds of things.

Religious beliefs are of several kinds. There are religious beliefs that are choices, religious beliefs that are engrained in one's culture, and there are religious beliefs which appear with no apparent cause. They are three very different things.

 

[Sunstone]

For the purpose of this question, what is the difference between a religious belief, and a non-religious belief?

None, except in the simple sense that a religious belief has something to do with religion, while a non-religious belief does not.

 

[psychoslice]

There are many beliefs within religion, but personally I can't see any importance with it, its either you believe it or not, just like any belief, its only important to you.

 

[निताइ dasa]

What is the importance of religious beliefs?

From a purely pragmatic and non-religious point of view (i.e that is detached from religious assumptions), certain religiously based beliefs may impel humans to act in good ways towards others, even though actual truth of the belief may not be accepted by everyone. If a Christian believes that God will punish them in hell for not following the 10 commandments, then such a belief impels them follow the 10 commandments (most of which are quite positive, like not killing innocents). Belief in Karma, impels us to act in good ways towards others and relates this to our own self-interest (if we are good to others, others are good to us) regardless of of whether Karma is correct or not. A similar thing can be said for reincarnation (belief in reincarnation impels such to preserve the environment, for example, on the basis of our self interest, which is a much stronger basis then simply altruism)

From a purely pragmatic view, the truth of any belief seems to be irrelevant. Rather the important aspect is what the belief impels us to do, and under what influence (whether it be a virtue or vice) we do it.

In my view, beliefs are much overrated. They can at the very best serve as accurate maps to realities, but they are far too often substituted for the actual experience of those realities.

I actually think that reality is based upon belief. In order to know something as true, you must believe said claim as true. Belief cannot be fundamentally distanced from our understanding of reality. It can be reasoned like this. We humans have many different experiences (due to our different circumstances) and these impel us to place our trust (believe) in certain sources of knowledge (whether that be science, scripture, testimony, our own experiences etc). It is belief in this sources that give rise to our worldview and hence the designation of certain claims as being true or false. Without belief you cannot have truth (because truth is a property of understanding, which is linked with the human mind). As humans, this belief informs our perception of reality. In the past, science told humans that the earth was flat and since those people trusted (faith, belief whatever you wanted to call it) science, their reality (its perception rather) became that the "earth was flat". Obviously this has changed. The point I am making, is that reality cannot even be distanced from belief. It belief in certain claims that give rise to our perception of reality Whether the reality is in fact there is unable to be proven, if distanced from belief and its assumptions. All source of knowledge (even science) make certain assumptions which rely on the faith of its adherents. That why the Gita says:

attvanurupa sarvasya
sraddha bhavati bharata
sraddha-mayo 'yam puruso
yo yac-chraddhah sa eva sah

"According to one's existence under the various modes of nature, one evolves a particular kind of faith [read belief]. The living being is said to be of a particular faith [belief] according to the modes he has acquired."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is the importance of religious beliefs? Are they crucial or necessary to salvation, enlightenment (satori, etc), or spiritual development? If so, why? If not, why not?

I would argue that all beliefs (and conscious thought in general) are to reality more or less what a map is to its terrain. That is, a belief is not the reality it refers to, but rather what a map is to the reality or terrain it refers to. e.g. If I say that I believe Jesus Christ is my savior, that does not necessarily mean I have any actual experience of Jesus Christ saving me, or of his salvation. No more than if I look at a map of a trail up a mountain, and then say, "Oh, I believe this trail goes to the top of the mountain."

I would further argue that humans are, for some unknown reason, quite prone to mistaking beliefs for the realities they refer to. That is equivalent to mistaking a map for the terrain it refers to. e.g. After years of study, I come to the belief that my teacher is correct in saying that everything I had once considered real -- this universe, matter, my body, my individual will, etc -- is actually not real, and that the only thing which is actually real is Brahman. But because I mistake the belief for the reality, the map for the terrain, I now think that I am somehow more spiritually developed than I was before I came to the belief that only Brahman is real. Yet, that is almost precisely like my thinking that, because I have looked at a map and come to the belief that the map truly represents the trail up a mountain, I have actually progressed in some fashion along the trail.

In my view, beliefs are much overrated. They can at the very best serve as accurate maps to realities, but they are far too often substituted for the actual experience of those realities.

But what do you think?

To tell you honestly, I have only know Christians use the word belief and faith as if it were fact. Other beliefs bypass the belief/faith (the map), and focus on the experience (the journey/discovery of the terrain itself).

The purpose of beliefs/map is for guidance so one won't get lost finding one's way up the mountain. If you have a huge mountain and can't find a way to climb it, would it not be logical for some people to need a guide to help them?

The map helps with spiritual development because that person, say Jane, can see her progress and reflect on it by how others have gone their too. She can read about the experiences of others and learn from their experiences as to what mistakes they made and what mistakes they overcame.

I do feel maps are necessary for some people. I know two friends who cannot live without having a map. It's like the mountain is too steep and instead of taking time to observe and create their own map in their timing, it's easier to follow someone else who has done it already either easily as a god or by inner wisdom and spiritual development, say as The Buddha.

I can see how one can mistake the map for the terrain though. I known a lot of people who can't figure out god/terrain without the Bible/map. While others can't know the Bible without god. Of course, you have people who say "I'm the exclusion" and say both is true-they work together. Chicken or the egg? not chicken and the egg.

I don't believe beliefs are overrated. I just don't see many people understanding the difference between stating "I believe Christ saves me" versus "I know Christ saves me." If you know how to get up the mountain, there is no need for belief and faith. If you don't know, just say, you don't know. It's a lot of ego, too, to admit you need help to people not just god.

I don't know about other religious. Most other religious I've known personally value the experience of religion and can live without the guide. If they have a guide its usually a communal guide and something they are born into with initiations, stories, and relationship with people, grandparents, and others. It's more extensive then having a Bible and going to church.

It depends on the religion and person, really. But I don't think beliefs are overrated just misunderstood and expressed inappropriately.

 

[Skwim]

As I've said several times before, I believe religious faith can help people get through life. Many people need the comfort and reassurance their religious faith provides, whether or not it has any basis in reality. As for being crucial or necessary to salvation, enlightenment (satori, etc), or spiritual development, this is purely speculative, and is no more rooted in fact than Odin being the origin of all language.


.

 

[arthra]

I would argue that all beliefs (and conscious thought in general) are to reality more or less what a map is to its terrain. That is, a belief is not the reality it refers to, but rather what a map is to the reality or terrain it refers to. e.g. If I say that I believe Jesus Christ is my savior, that does not necessarily mean I have any actual experience of Jesus Christ saving me, or of his salvation. No more than if I look at a map of a trail up a mountain, and then say, "Oh, I believe this trail goes to the top of the mountain."I would further argue that humans are, for some unknown reason, quite prone to mistaking beliefs for the realities they refer to.

Actually I think you may have something there... We have beliefs in the Baha'i Faith about a future civilization in which the oneness of humanity is a corner stone and racial, class and religious prejudices are eliminated... We have a vision of a future representative world parliament and an international court of arbitration in a world of universal education in which the extremes of wealth and poverty have been eliminated and men and women are equal and wars have been eliminated. The vision we have is a kind of template for the future...

Our representatives in the Baha'i International Community in Geneva and other offices
https://www.bic.org/
are working for these outcomes and meet with representatives from various world bodies such as the United Nations.. The UN as you probably know was an outcome of visionary beliefs following the outbreak of WWII but it also had a predecessor in the League of Nations after WWI.

Baha'u'llah when He was a prisoner of the Ottoman Sultan wrote many of the then known rulers and shared this vision of the future.
See:
http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SLH/
I think we're closer to realizing some of these visions than we were say early in the twentieth century.

 

[psychoslice]

I see religion important to those who need it to be and do good, there are many out there who can be dangerous without that belief, its sad but its true.

 

[George-ananda]

What is the importance of religious beliefs? Are they crucial or necessary to salvation, enlightenment (satori, etc), or spiritual development? If so, why? If not, why not?

I think the quality of our hearts and minds are what matter, not our beliefs. The level of brotherly love and peace are what matter, not beliefs.

But what do you think?

The belief that Brahman alone is real is important to understanding the goal of our lives; moving towards Oneness. The understanding alone does not advance us, but it can point us in the right direction for advancement; living a life of love and peace.

 

[Kemosloby]

Who knows, he just says believe in me and be saved. So probably it's like believing in God is your measure of acceptance of God, or love of God, since the door was left open to disbelief.

 

[Jumi]

Then he showed me a picture of an ancient burial site in which a body had been buried along with everyday items such as clay items and jewelry. He said that Egyptologists inferred from this that Egyptians believed in an afterlife.

Inferred? That did not follow logically. I saw no reason to presume that Egyptians believed in an afterlife just based upon the burial site. Religion is not 'What you think about death'. Religion is how you live, and it covers all kinds of things.

Well we know that they believed in an afterlife from their writings, but if the burial was from ancient from times before any writing is preserved it's just glorified guesswork.

 

[Jedster]

For the purpose of this question, what is the difference between a religious belief, and a non-religious belief?

Good question.

As I see it, religous beliefs are borrowed, not necessarily self realised.
Sometimes it is good as is the cases I have heard many Bible belivers say they would happily murder someone if it wasn't Biblicly forbidden. (personally I have kept away from such people).

 

[Altfish]

If a Christian believes that God will punish them in hell for not following the 10 commandments, then such a belief impels them follow the 10 commandments (most of which are quite positive, like not killing innocents).

Have you read the 10 Commandments?
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet

Red – only a very jealous god would worry about such things?
Green – OK, but which society doesn’t have these laws, hardly ground breaking!
Blue – sound good, but we either break them or pay lip service to them
Black – This is the basis of Western capitalism, consumerism!

Some other things which did not make it into the 10 Commandments

· The Golden Rule
· Protection of children
· Slavery – do not ‘own’ other humans
· Do not discriminate
· Protecting the planet

 

[निताइ dasa]

Red – only a very jealous god would worry about such things?
Green – OK, but which society doesn’t have these laws, hardly ground breaking!
Blue – sound good, but we either break them or pay lip service to them
Black – This is the basis of Western capitalism, consumerism!

Red ones do not seem to have negative effect to the extent that they harm others. Yes some of them may be a minor convenience, but not negative. They show a way of giving respect to God.

Your Black and Blue points are moot. In-fact Blue and Black are pretty good standards of morality to aim for, even though we may fall short sometimes. And I think they are definitely achievable lol. Overall the 10 commandments are quite positive moral standards.

Some other things which did not make it into the 10 Commandments

Sure. My argument is that belief in the 10 commandments impels a person do perform more helpful good acts compared to harmful bad ones. What is not said in the commandments is irrelevant.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Have you read the 10 Commandments?
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet

Red – only a very jealous god would worry about such things?
Green – OK, but which society doesn’t have these laws, hardly ground breaking!
Blue – sound good, but we either break them or pay lip service to them
Black – This is the basis of Western capitalism, consumerism!

Some other things which did not make it into the 10 Commandments

· The Golden Rule
· Protection of children
· Slavery – do not ‘own’ other humans
· Do not discriminate
· Protecting the planet

Actually, it appears that EVERY society has a set of rules that cover numbers five through 10, and in fact a great deal more situations. The devil as always is in the details: who is covered and who is not--often because "outsiders" are not considered worthy of consideration. "Don't Do Murder" among your kinfolk...but those strangers who are traveling through your territory? Fair Game!

In addition, the 10 were not the only laws handed down by the OT deity. It's just that most Christians/denominations choose to ignore the others, or only take them selectively (No Gays!).

 

[Sully]

Religion is not important. A relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ is what is important. Religion gives people the impression that they are "good." They went to Church, the Temple or the Mosque so they believe they are being Godly...however it is all external. So often religious people can be so caught up in the rituals and outward expressions of faith that they are without grace and love. I believe God does not care about what we show the rest of the world but what is in our hearts. Religion causes people to strap bombs on themselves and blowup other people because they believe they can do something to make themselves "right with God." Much of Christ's ministry was against the hypocrisy of the Sanhedrin calling them a brood of vipers and white washed tombs filled with dead man's bones...

 

[LuisDantas]

What is the importance of religious beliefs? Are they crucial or necessary to salvation, enlightenment (satori, etc), or spiritual development? If so, why? If not, why not?

Not really. They are probably unavoidable, but hardly worth pursuing as such.

Beliefs are an aid for the goal of religious wisdom and courage. And often they end up getting in the way.