What if Jesus came back as a Buddhist?

[Master Vigil]

Well, first off, He never was a "Christian." I'm sure He would find great truths in all of the world's major religions, but I can't exactly imagine Him calling Himself a Buddhist or a Hindu or even a Christian. I mean, if He truly is who He claimed to be, it wouldn't make sense for Him to do so.

That really isn't the point I am trying to get across. What if his teachings were contradictory to christian teachings?

 

[Popeyesays]

That really isn't the point I am trying to get across. What if his teachings were contradictory to christian teachings?

I do not think the teachings of any of Them are contradictory to the teachings of the others.

Not in a spiritual sense. In a spiritual sense how do the teachings of Jesus and Baha`u'llah differ? Not one with that I can tell.

SOcial teachings DO change, but the societal needs differ from age to age.

Regardes,
Scott

 

[Master Vigil]

I do not think the teachings of any of Them are contradictory to the teachings of the others.

Not in a spiritual sense. In a spiritual sense how do the teachings of Jesus and Baha`u'llah differ? Not one with that I can tell.

SOcial teachings DO change, but the societal needs differ from age to age.

Regardes,
Scott

Do you believe that the teachings of Jesus and of Dogen Zenji were different? What if Jesus's teachings resembled Soto Zen Buddhism?

 

[Master Vigil]

What I am trying to get out there, is that many christians believe there religion is the one true religion. But if there messiah comes back as someone who they would believe would go to hell. How would that rock someones faith?

 

[uu_sage]

If you're talking about Jesus of Pauline Christianity (part-man, part God) then I would think it would be a giddy thrill to see the reaction on believer's faces. If such a thing were to happen, it would like others have said, would result in the "ours is the only true faith" argument go down the drain. Fundamentalists and their ilk would still be nut-cases and still would hold their position to be completely true. More seriously, though, the churches preaching the religion about Jesus (includes stuff about Virgin birth, miracles, substantive atonement, hell/heaven, ect. et. al) would feel tough love where it hurts too not only in membership but they like the followers their faith too would be shaken and put out of a job. I tend to think that Jesus is part mythology, and part truth. The mythology is the stuff that the institution of Christianity has created about his divinity and other stuff like that. The truth part of it deals with the search of the historical Jesus (researched by both theologan and lay person alike): the enlightened sage, an ethical examplar, a social and political revolutionary who saught to reform Judaism rather than establishing a new religion.

 

[Popeyesays]

Do you believe that the teachings of Jesus and of Dogen Zenji were different? What if Jesus's teachings resembled Soto Zen Buddhism?

The dogma and ritual of the priests of Christ have splintered the religion of Christ into hundreds of squabling factions. The followers of Buddha have have added ritual and dogma that shattered the teachings of Buddha into a hundred squabbling factions.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Master Vigil]

The dogma and ritual of the priests of Christ have splintered the religion of Christ into hundreds of squabling factions. The followers of Buddha have have added ritual and dogma that shattered the teachings of Buddha into a hundred squabbling factions.

Regards,
Scott

That isn't what I meant. Show me the similarities between any christian doctrine and that of the Soto Zen tradition. The teachings, the beliefs. Not the formation of the sect.

 

[ChrisP]

That really isn't the point I am trying to get across. What if his teachings were contradictory to christian teachings?

Then they would still be Christian teachings. The teachings of Christ are what Christianity is, so by definition of the words you are using, for a true Christian, that is impossible.

I'm not sure where you're coming from?

That isn't what I meant. Show me the similarities between any christian doctrine and that of the Soto Zen tradition. The teachings, the beliefs. Not the formation of the sect.

Christianity is, in essence, loving Jesus first yourself last and others in between (ahhh Bible class ). And of course following Jesus teachings.

This from the SotoZen Homepage:

• [font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]We are all children of the Buddha and come into this world endowed with the Buddha-Mind (busshin). However, failing to realize this, we live selfish, willful lives, causing ourselves much suffering.[/font]
  
  [font=Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, san-serif]If we make repentance to the Buddha and take refuge in him, our spirits will come to rest, our lives will experience harmony and light, and we will rejoice in being of service to society. We will also experience the deep faith that will allow us to stand up under any hardship. To discover happiness and a life worth living here is the teaching of the Soto Zen School. [/font]

I don't have much real in depth knowledge of Bhuddism but my understanding is the basic teachings of Buddhism are :

1. Life is Suffering.
2. Suffering is caused by craving and aversion.
^^^This is what Christians also believe. That Life is a test, where we will be tempted with suffering and desire to turn against God.
3. Giving up desire, will release us from suffering. - Also a Christian belief.
4. The 8 fold path, which is morality (buddha style).

????? I don't see how there is much difference here. Just a difference in the way people are required to worship and a few things like reincarnation.

Again, correct me here as I have VERY limited knowledge but : Buddhism examines the nature of Life, whereas Christians are expected to do what they're told without question because God already understands Life, and can guide them through it.

Christianity : Understand my teachings and you will be content and go to heaven.

Buddhism: understand Life, remove yourself from desire and be you will be content.

???????????????????????

 

[YmirGF]

Hello Chrisp,

I have to admit I read your post and just blinked. I have never seen Christianity equated with Buddhism before, so I was pretty stunned. I have simply never looked at it the way you have summerized to two camps. Bravo for that, at the very least. I may be missing your point, but I think you are glossing over some fairly radical differences to come to your cozy generalizations.

Just a difference in the way people are required to worship and a few things like reincarnation.

I have only meditated for 3 decades, so I am still pretty new to the concept. I have managed to learn a thing or two on the way though. ChrisP, it simply would not occur to me to refer to meditation as worship. In general terms, it is not worship in any way, shape or form. I would be quite shocked if Master Vigil was to claim that meditation WAS worship. It is more of an excercise or prossess, that is considerably richer than anything offered in Christianity. The only thing that Christianity offers that is vaguely similar is prayer. Prayer is NOT meditation.

Again, correct me here as I have VERY limited knowledge but : Buddhism examines the nature of God, whereas Christians are expected to do what they're told without question because God is unfathomable.

Again, you are incorrect. From an outside-looking in standpoint, one may think that Buddhists are exploring the nature of God, but that is not their perspective, therefore you cannot just label it as such. In Buddhism, there is NO GOD. I would be shocked if any Buddhist claimed otherwise.

Buddhism: understand me, remove yourself from desire and be you will be content.

Lastly, this is a pretty watered down revision of Buddhism. Enlightenment can hardly be described as contentment, although I would have to admit it is a very small part of it, perhaps more as a residual effect.

If I have missed the point here, feel free to correct the error of my thinking.

What I am trying to get out there, is that many christians believe there religion is the one true religion. But if there messiah comes back as someone who they would believe would go to hell. How would that rock someones faith?

I suspect that folks are just not getting the magnitude of what you are trying to say MV. It is my humble opinion that such an august personality will indeed uproot many long held Christian ideas and leave them hanging in the wind. Two such candidates would be the concept of sin, and the concept of redemption.

I think this is what MV is getting at. What if some lady came along and flipped the whole thing on its ear. How would Christians/Muslims react at being told for example that sin and redemption were cancelled or void? What if her message claimed these concepts were illusions created by men? What if such a person were to claim that God did not exist?

 

[ChrisP]

Hello Chrisp,

I have to admit I read your post and just blinked. I have never seen Christianity equated with Buddhism before, so I was pretty stunned. I have simply never looked at it the way you have summerized to two camps. Bravo for that, at the very least. I may be missing your point, but I think you are glossing over some fairly radical differences to come to your cozy generalizations.

I have only meditated for 3 decades, so I am still pretty new to the concept. I have managed to learn a thing or two on the way though. ChrisP, it simply would not occur to me to refer to meditation as worship. In general terms, it is not worship in any way, shape or form. I would be quite shocked if Master Vigil was to claim that meditation WAS worship. It is more of an excercise or prossess, that is considerably richer than anything offered in Christianity. The only thing that Christianity offers that is vaguely similar is prayer. Prayer is NOT meditation.


Again, you are incorrect. From an outside-looking in standpoint, one may think that Buddhists are exploring the nature of God, but that is not their perspective, therefore you cannot just label it as such. In Buddhism, there is NO GOD. I would be shocked if any Buddhist claimed otherwise.

Lastly, this is a pretty watered down revision of Buddhism. Enlightenment can hardly be described as contentment, although I would have to admit it is a very small part of it, perhaps more as a residual effect.

If I have missed the point here, feel free to correct the error of my thinking.

Thanks YmirGF, btw this SnaleSpace

Regarding your points on worship: I never tried to compare worship. That and the existence of God were the two things I tried (o so poorly) to avoid. Perhaps I should edit my post, I didn't proof read it very well.

I was not trying to compare the practises. Only the fundamental ways of life. Buddhists goal is be free of desire(?) and love others. A Christians goal is be like God, who IS free of desire and loves everyone.

Yeah that's far more succinct. Maybe I shoulda just said that in the first place. I know it's fairly general, but I didn't want to write a book .

Earlier in the thread I stated that Christians are by definition followers of Christ. This means if Christ was a Buddhist, so would they be (Mass conversions upon the second coming ).

The thread then moved on to M_V asking if his teaching were contradictory to Christian teachings. Other than there would be no worshiping of a deity, the Buddhist code of conduct/ethics are quite similar to Christianity. Only the small matter of removing the central deity and all things related to him of course .

I was basically probing for a more detailed question from M_V because I didn't understanding what he was asking, and in particular, attempting to address this query

That isn't what I meant. Show me the similarities between any christian doctrine and that of the Soto Zen tradition. The teachings, the beliefs. Not the formation of the sect.

 

[YmirGF]

No, snale/chris, I do understand what you were attempting and I applaud you for the effort. My pea brain is just stuck on comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are both lovely delicious fruits but that is about as far as it goes.

 

[ChrisP]

No, snale/chris, I do understand what you were attempting and I applaud you for the effort. My pea brain is just stuck on comparing apples and oranges. Yes, they are both lovely delicious fruits but that is about as far as it goes.

Fair enough, but that was the question. . . Hmmm Orangplesss tasty

 

[A. Leaf]

Good post, I think if you understand his teachings by reading the four gospels and his basic three commandments you may see he was a full on life lover who cared being a genius obviously at the same time with divine gifts. I class to Love the Intelligence of Life as to Love thy Neighbour.
How much of that do we have in the world at this present time?

 

[ChrisP]

Good post, I think if you understand his teachings by reading the four gospels and his basic three commandments you may see he was a full on life lover who cared being a genius obviously at the same time with divine gifts. I class to Love the Intelligence of Life as to Love thy Neighbour.
How much of that do we have in the world at this present time?

Not enough. There can Never be enough Love Freelancer .

 

[Popeyesays]

What I am trying to get out there, is that many christians believe there religion is the one true religion. But if there messiah comes back as someone who they would believe would go to hell. How would that rock someones faith?

Jesus never said you had to be Christian to be "saved". The "rock" that Christianity is the "one true religion" shouldn't be clung to in the first place. It is exclusivism and God is not interested in exclusivism, in my opinion. If someone's faith is based on the fact that they get to go to heaven and I am damned, then that is a selfish and un-Christian rock to cling to; and their 'faith' based on such a dubious foundation is sorely in need of being rocked, re-evaluated, re-founded and re-established on a foundation based ON God's teachings.

By the way, Zen Buddhism IS a single school, it has as much relativity to the teachings of Buddha as any other school of Buddhist philosophy - they are all human creations rather than Buddha's creation.

What are the actual utterances of the Buddha, that is the only thing to base any concept of what Buddhism is. The closes thing we have to what the Buddha actually said is the Pali Text and no sub-school of Zen Buddhism has any greater claim to being based on the teachings of Buddha than any other ritual, dogma and human tradition based on the writings of those who tell us what the Buddha said or did.

The Gospels are much more closely allied with the times of the living Jesus than the writings of Buddhism today are aligned with the living Buddha.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Master Vigil]

Listen. I know that all religions have validity, and that you don't have to be christian to reach enlightenment. What I am asking, is how would this affect those who don't believe the former?

 

[Popeyesays]

Listen. I know that all religions have validity, and that you don't have to be christian to reach enlightenment. What I am asking, is how would this affect those who don't believe the former?

Well, I said this before: "Jesus never said you had to be Christian to be "saved". The "rock" that Christianity is the "one true religion" shouldn't be clung to in the first place. It is exclusivism and God is not interested in exclusivism, in my opinion. If someone's faith is based on the fact that they get to go to heaven and I am damned, then that is a selfish and un-Christian rock to cling to; and their 'faith' based on such a dubious foundation is sorely in need of being rocked, re-evaluated, re-founded and re-established on a foundation based ON God's teachings."

The faith of those people might be shattered, but that would not necessarily be bad for them. They would be called upon to rebuild their faith in a more inclusive framework.

Regards,
Scott

 

[blueman]

Well... What if?? I mean, what if Jesus truely did come back, and this was beyond any doubt. And he was a buddhist, or any other religion for that matter. Would that shake a christians faith?

Don't hold your breath Master Vigil. :bounce

 

[mr.guy]

Don't hold your breath Master Vigil. :bounce

I think that means that christians would not acknowledge the buddist christ, right? Odd thing to get hung up about concerning the son of god and all.

 

[blueman]

I think that means that christians would not acknowledge the buddist christ, right? Odd thing to get hung up about concerning the son of god and all.

What are you following me from thread to thread to take your shots? Give it a break! If you do not believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only source of salvation and redemption, that's your free will and you have nothing to lose, do you?