What if Jesus Had Not Been Crucified, So There Was No Easter?

[obi one]

I was using the term "western history" with respect to its conventional definition:

Western world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


So no, ancient Greece doesn't matter in this case.

You quote a source declaring the Greco-Roman era as being "Western History", and then say Greece doesn't matter. Your declaration doesn't fit your source. Is there an on-off switch on peoples minds?

Let me quote you another source with dates attached, which does include Greece. Outline of History - The Flow of History This may allow you to reactivate the mind switch. Greece is very much part of the Western History, and of Western philosophy, and of Western democratic politics, and of Western war. For the Seals training is modeled on the Spartan model. Our mathematics and science draws on Pythagerus and Archimedes, and while they may have had contacts with Egypt and the mysteries of God and the prophets, they had no access to Pauline "Christianity".

 

[obi one]

if he lived till an old age and died then he would not have been the Son of God, and therefore not the messiah.

It would also show that he was a sinful man like the rest of us for if he was sinless as the scriptures state, he would never have died.

Your statement makes no sense. According to your religion, he did die. Does that mean he wasn't sinless, and was an unclean offering?

And if you live to the end of the age, and make it through the "day of distress", does that make you sinless?

 

[Pegg]

Let's assume Jesus was not martyred and that He died a natural death later in life.. How would that have made Him a "sinful man like the rest of us" and would His passing say at an advanced age made Him less a "Son of God"?

Romans 6;23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ezekiel 18;4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die

so if he died of old age, then it would be evidence that he was a sinner because sin is the reason we die.

What I have seen is that what we have of the teachings of Jesus is often drowned out by
the church doctrines like the resurrection..The Easter story is told and retold but where is the emphasis on His teachings?

The resurrection is our basis for hope...Jesus certainly spoke a lot about it and he did so to assure mankind that even if they die, they will not loose their life because God will resurrect them in the future.

not that i think Easter has anything to do with Christs teachings, it doesnt. What Christ did tell christians to remember was his death. It is only through Jesus sacrificial death that the resurrection becomes a possibility.

 

[Pegg]

Your statement makes no sense. According to your religion, he did die. Does that mean he wasn't sinless, and was an unclean offering?

And if you live to the end of the age, and make it through the "day of distress", does that make you sinless?

he was killed. There is a big difference between dying of old age and being killed.

The OP is postulating the chance that Jesus was not executed, but rather that he died of old age.

 

[beerisit]

Romans 6;23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ezekiel 18;4 Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die

so if he died of old age, then it would be evidence that he was a sinner because sin is the reason we die.




The resurrection is our basis for hope...Jesus certainly spoke a lot about it and he did so to assure mankind that even if they die, they will not loose their life because God will resurrect them in the future.

not that i think Easter has anything to do with Christs teachings, it doesnt. What Christ did tell christians to remember was his death. It is only through Jesus sacrificial death that the resurrection becomes a possibility.

If you are sinless you won't die, isn't that your belief. Jesus died, which is the wages for sin, did Jesus sin?

 

[Pegg]

If you are sinless you won't die, isn't that your belief. Jesus died, which is the wages for sin, did Jesus sin?

being sinless does not mean you will not die...it does not make you immortal.

Jesus was mortal just as Adam was mortal and being mortal means you can die. However, being sinless and mortal means you do not have to. That is the difference.

 

[blackout]

We'd have Easter just as we have it now,
but without sunday morning church and chocolate crosses.

 

[HerDotness]

We'd have Easter just as we have it now,
but without sunday morning church and chocolate crosses.

I've long thought Easter sunrise services rather ironic in view of the fact that a number of the Christian churches which hold them think anything Pagan is an abomination.

Ya gotta wonder...

 

[HerDotness]

being sinless does not mean you will not die...it does not make you immortal.

Jesus was mortal just as Adam was mortal and being mortal means you can die. However, being sinless and mortal means you do not have to. That is the difference.

I've always wondered how people who claim that Jesus was sinless excuse the following which is typically taught as demonstrating what a marvel Jesus was at an early age: (Luke 2:41-50 NKJV)

41 His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover. 42 And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast. 43 When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother[a] did not know it; 44 but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances. 45 So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him. 46 Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions. 47 And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers. 48 So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”

49 And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?” 50 But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.

Curious how this sinless divinity demonstrated such crass disregard for his parents' anguish, time, effort and money spent having to return to Jerusalem (which they undoubtedly could ill afford) and then spend THREE DAYS searching until they found him.

And how curious that Jesus seems to consider himself exempt from the commandment to honor one's parents?

 

[beerisit]

being sinless does not mean you will not die...it does not make you immortal.

Jesus was mortal just as Adam was mortal and being mortal means you can die. However, being sinless and mortal means you do not have to. That is the difference.

Does that mean that when your wandering around on paradise earth that you can just chose to turn your lights out, I gonna die now, sorta thing.?

 

[kai]

the celebration of what we now call Easter is much older than Christianity so , i think we would still be celebrating ( if that's the right word ) Easter, with or without the introduction of the middle eastern religion to our shores. They couldn't wipe out all our festivals so they very wisely assimilated them.

 

[Pegg]

the celebration of what we now call Easter is much older than Christianity so , i think we would still be celebrating ( if that's the right word ) Easter, with or without the introduction of the middle eastern religion to our shores. They couldn't wipe out all our festivals so they very wisely assimilated them.

who's the 'they'


You know it was the pagans who infiltrated Christianity, right?

 

[kai]

who's the 'they'

You know it was the pagans who took out Christianity, right?

They are Christians.


and sorry i dont understand what you are asking here. I think christian missionaries assimilated existing festivals and some sacred sites to make it easier to convert.

 

[arthra]

"...sin is the reason we die."


Yeah I don't see this at all... of course Jesus said

Luke 18:18

And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

~ King James Bible

It's in all the synoptic Gospels.

Paul writes:

First Corinthians 15:55

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

(King James Bible)

So Paul says here it is the "sting of death" that is sin and not death itself.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

"...sin is the reason we die."
Yeah I don't see this at all... of course Jesus said
Luke 18:18
And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
~ King James Bible
It's in all the synoptic Gospels.
Paul writes:
First Corinthians 15:55
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
(King James Bible)
So Paul says here it is the "sting of death" that is sin and not death itself.

Ezekiel [18 vs 4,20] says: the soul that sins dies.
If we could stop sinning we would not die.

According to Rev. [1 v 18] the resurrected Jesus was given the keys to unlock death. So, in the resurrection there will be no 'sting of death'.
As 1st Corinthians [15 v 26] says that our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing. So, at that time death will cease to exist. That is why Rev. [21 vs 4,5] can say that: death will be no more.
After the end of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth the time will come when death will never exist again.