What if The Vikings did not convert to Christianity?

[Jumi]

It's hard to see how the Vikings might have survived without converting and forging alliances with their neighbors who didn't tolerate other beliefs. In the long run, it was either face forced conversions and risk losing more or give in and try to reach a more permanent with the people of the new god.

It happened to Saxons before and to the Baltics and Finland after the Vikings. It was probably inevitable that the pagan beliefs went underground.

 

[Tumah]

Hey @Flankerl
I was thinking of going on a Heidenfahrt with the family to the Reinland for some Heidenspaß. The problem is that I have the Heidenangst that it will cost me a Heidengeld and the kids will make such a Heidenlärm. Its just not worth it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Christianity never seemed to really "take" with the Norse and some of the other European groups, anyways.

This is vague....what groups? There are very devout Scandinavian Xians. Germans took to Xianity like white on rice.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This is vague....what groups? There are very devout Scandinavian Xians. Germans took to Xianity like white on rice.

The Scandinavian and Baltic countries were some of the last areas of Europe to be converted to Christianity and they are pretty much the first ones to drop it. The rates of atheism in those countries are the highest in Europe.

Germans aren't Norse.

 

[Nietzsche]

It's hard to see how the Vikings might have survived without converting and forging alliances with their neighbors who didn't tolerate other beliefs. In the long run, it was either face forced conversions and risk losing more or give in and try to reach a more permanent with the people of the new god.

It happened to Saxons before and to the Baltics and Finland after the Vikings. It was probably inevitable that the pagan beliefs went underground.

Lithuania lasted until 1385, and Lithuania wasn't separated from Christendom by a strait. Even at its largest extent, straddling Central-East Europe, Lithuania did not have the kind of resources the Norse did, nor the easily defendable terrain, or the benefit of technological parity.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Is vikings only accepted Christianity because we fought better than the ancestors and it made them think twice.
They invaded Briton relentlessly and chop chop all the way.
After the romans was like last thing we needed , know what a mean , primitive explorer raider type that just plundered first bit of land they dropped on.
Is all old history none of it matters now .
The will to fight is in my DNA now tho which is a problem

 

[Jumi]

Yes, they lasted a long time in Lithuania. Also in Finland pagans lasted long after forced conversions by the Swedes, there was still public humiliations and beatings not 2 centuries ago. The Sami beliefs lasted even longer. They still have memories of forced Christianity and forced forgetting their own.

Interesting song by a Sami artist about their memories:

Is vikings only accepted Christianity because we fought better than the ancestors and it made them think twice.
They invaded Briton relentlessly and chop chop all the way.

Part of it was revenge for destroying Irminsul and beheading the thousands of Saxon men caught practicing their beliefs after Christian invasion. It was probably they realized their fate and fought back. History is always written by the winners, so they will be seen the bad guys and the conquerors the good guys.

 

[Jumi]

This is vague....what groups? There are very devout Scandinavian Xians

Yes there are, but not very many.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Yes, they lasted a long time in Lithuania. Also in Finland pagans lasted long after forced conversions by the Swedes, there was still public humiliations and beatings not 2 centuries ago. The Sami beliefs lasted even longer. They still have memories of forced Christianity and forced forgetting their own.

Interesting song by a Sami artist about their memories:

Part of it was revenge for destroying Irminsul and beheading the thousands of Saxon men caught practicing their beliefs after Christian invasion. It was probably they realized their fate and fought back. History is always written by the winners, so they will be seen the bad guys and the conquerors the good guys.

So God/Allah/YWHW or whatever and co are really the gods of the bad guys, fits my 21st century philosophy thanks , is a world of dogs .
However I do know which side of the line I stand personally

 

[Jumi]

Depends on your values who is the good guy or the bad guy. No doubt that most people thought and still think they're the good guys.

 

[Desert Snake]

Yes, they lasted a long time in Lithuania. Also in Finland pagans lasted long after forced conversions by the Swedes, there was still public humiliations and beatings not 2 centuries ago. The Sami beliefs lasted even longer. They still have memories of forced Christianity and forced forgetting their own.

Swedes are Norse. The topic of the thread is referring to Norse or Swedes, ie /'Norse', in this context. Yet they are the ones converting others to Christianity....
is this contradiction other points you are arguing?
I think it might be.

Doesn't Christianity have to have some hold on the actual beliefs of people, for then to be converting others?.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Bad is clearly subjective, in this context. If you feel this strongly about these religious ideas, there is no real intellectually honest way to support cultural constructs that are literally FROM a culture of Christianity. To infer some other paradigm, is just either, not being astute or accurate, or simply changing the actual context in which western civilization grew; that's great, but then one must accept that they will have to stop adhering to basically any Christian cultural ideas //that's pretty much everything/.

Was not replying to your post anyhow thanks for heads up . Was a logical conclusion based only on the post I replied to which suggests all the good guys are dead.
Well is not true , for now we sat here doing nothing , just waiting for next invader

 

[Desert Snake]

Was not replying to your post anyhow thanks for heads up . Was a logical conclusion based only on the post I replied to which suggests all the good guys are dead.
Well is not true , for now we sat here doing nothing , just waiting for next invader

Yes, however we are a mix of the ''invaders'', remember? I assume you are, but even if you were Irish, they invaded Ireland at some point as well. That's why there were battles for Ireland, just like in England.

I think what I'm getting at, here, is, there isn't some ''us vs. them'', in that historical equation. If there is, you are far outlier, and that is...unlikely.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Yes, however we are a mix of the ''invaders'', remember? I assume you are, but even if you were Irish, they invaded Ireland at some point as well. That's why there were battles for Ireland, just like in England.

I think what I'm getting at, here, is, there isn't some ''us vs. them'', in that historical equation. If there is, you are far outlier, and that is...unlikely.

Vikings - Christians
The very nature of the OP was us and them .
Some years ago was involved in a university project , they took DNA from many an tested , I only gave DNA was not part of research team , had interesting results , large parts of population on north west coastal areas inland also 30 miles many had very similar DNA to ancient tribes .
Is published online somewhere I try find but search . We never moved still here is a fact , romans had little influence over this side of country
I'm not sore about history in RL , however like you say is two sides Britons only took to sail later we didn't start fa

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

Yes, however we are a mix of the ''invaders'', remember? I assume you are, but even if you were Irish, they invaded Ireland at some point as well. That's why there were battles for Ireland, just like in England.

I think what I'm getting at, here, is, there isn't some ''us vs. them'', in that historical equation. If there is, you are far outlier, and that is...unlikely.

How did a small piece of land like UK become 4 countries reality is you can run the length in just 9 days
How did they loose touch and become separate nations if life arrived from Europe ,
The first communities how is it possible they could loose touch , and create up to 7 language , can run it in 9 days .

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Well this could be a complicated subject. How would later events turn out? How would recent or Semi-Recent events turn out? World War I? World War II? That is if they happened at least somewhat the same way. The Russo-Japanese War may have been altered as well. A good subject I have been thinking about since 2009 and one I have been waiting to bring up here but I waited because I didn't want you all to think I am crazy... well done me! Anyway GO!

None of these events would probably have happened. Everything would probably be vastly different. Butterfly effect.

 

[SpeaksForTheTrees]

None of these events would probably have happened. Everything would probably be vastly different. Butterfly effect.

Reaction and Consequence perpetual circle most just end up going with the flow , swept into the ocean, I like swimming up river can be difficult but is a worthwhile swim imho lol
Can the rolling ball be stopped is my big question in life ,will humans make it is more a priority for myself than is there a God .

 

[Kori]

None of these events would probably have happened. Everything would probably be vastly different. Butterfly effect.

The Russo-Japanese War maybe but there would still be World Wars of some kind. Maybe even more than two. Yes the reasons why they would most likely be different but to say World Wars wouldn't happen at all is unrealistic.

 

[Jainarayan]

Christianity never seemed to really "take" with the Norse and some of the other European groups, anyways.

They're not the most church-going people in the world. My Italian-American cousin who's lived in Sweden for at least 45 years seems to understand every small reference I make to Ásatrú (or Asatro as the Swedes spell it). Evidently the old ways are still that ingrained that even an American would pick up on it.

Ancient folklore is alive and well in Scandinavia. Belief in all manner of supernatural beings from ancient times still abounds, especially in Iceland. When the US air base in Keflavik Iceland was being built in the 1940s the foreman stopped work because of a dream he had. In his dream a woman came to him asking him to delay the work for two weeks while her family moved out. Two weeks later she came to him in another dream saying her family had moved, and work could proceed. They were a family of landvættir, land spirits. The Americans were not happy, but oh well... better unhappy Americans than unhappy landvættir.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

They're not the most church-going people in the world. My Italian-American cousin who's lived in Sweden for at least 45 years seems to understand every small reference I make to Ásatrú (or Asatro as the Swedes spell it). Evidently the old ways are still that ingrained that even an American would pick up on it.

Ancient folklore is alive and well in Scandinavia. Belief in all manner of supernatural beings from ancient times still abounds, especially in Iceland. When the US air base in Keflavik Iceland was being built in the 1940s the foreman stopped work because of a dream he had. In his dream a woman came to him asking him to delay the work for two weeks while her family moved out. Two weeks later she came to him in another dream saying her family had moved, and work could proceed. They were a family of landvættir, land spirits. The Americans were not happy, but oh well... better unhappy Americans than unhappy landvættir.

That's really awesome, about the landvættir. Very polite of him to stop construction for them.