What if we accepted each others Religion?

[Dawnofhope]

The whole issue of what Buddha actually taught is complicated by the complete absence of any historical text or artifact that can be reasonably attributed to Siddhartha Buddha, assuming He existed. So any arguments from Baha'is or Buddhists on the grounds of actual evidence are pure conjecture and speculation. Same deal for Krishna.

 

[ppp]

The whole issue of what Buddha actually taught is complicated by the complete absence of any historical text or artifact that can be reasonably attributed to Siddhartha Buddha, assuming He existed. So any arguments from Baha'is or Buddhists on the grounds of actual evidence are pure conjecture and speculation. Same deal for Krishna.

The religion is a historical artifact. So whether he existed, or not, the Baha'i have no standing in explaining what Buddhism is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You speak as if you're the only person on this planet that has friends in other religions, and that that is something special to Baha'i. What exactly makes you think this, as in my experiences, almost anyone with friends at all has friends from other religions.

Not at all. There are many good people working for peace and we Baha’is are just one of many such groups.

 

[loverofhumanity]

One might be of the mind that Revelation 22;18 is about as helpful as Deuteronomy 4:2...

Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

Yes but unfortunately this is never obeyed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The religion is a historical artifact. So whether he existed, or not, the Baha'i have no standing in explaining what Buddhism is.

Anyone is entitled to have a view on what Buddhism is or isn't, Baha'is included.

I've never heard a religion described as an historical artifact before.

My point was that we have no way of knowing for certain about the origins of Buddhism. The reality that most who identify with Buddhism on this forum see the question as irrelevant or don't care exemplifies the problem.

 

[ppp]

Anyone is entitled to have a view on what Buddhism is or isn't, Baha'is included.

I didn't say they're not entitled to have a view. I said the Baha'i have no standing. Meaning that their view is no different than the view of some random guy in a bar.

I've never heard a religion described as an historical artifact before.

Congrats. Today you learned...

My point was that we have no way of knowing for certain about the origins of Buddhism. The reality that most who identify with Buddhism on this forum see the question as irrelevant or don't care exemplifies the problem.

My point is that the origins of Buddhism are not relevant. I don't buy into Buddhist claims about some non physical realm. But I am not silly enough to claim that Buddhist interpretations of their sacred writings are not authentically Buddhist. Or that some guy in a bar (Baha'i) has a valid opinion about some other culture's interpretation of their own texts.

 

[CG Didymus]

I didn't say they're not entitled to have a view. I said the Baha'i have no standing. Meaning that their view is no different than the view of some random guy in a bar.



Congrats. Today you learned...


My point is that the origins of Buddhism are not relevant. I don't buy into Buddhist claims about some non physical realm. But I am not silly enough to claim that Buddhist interpretations of their sacred writings are not authentically Buddhist. Or that some guy in a bar (Baha'i) has a valid opinion about some other culture's interpretation of their own texts.

What Baha'is say is more than their "view" or "opinion. They are claiming they have the correct view... the right interpretation. And the Buddhists, themselves, have the wrong view. And one Baha'i, LH, is claiming that there was an "original" Buddhist teaching from Buddha himself that agrees with what the Baha'is are saying.

And where are these "original" teachings of the Buddha? That he taught about the same one God as believed by the Abrahamic religions... That didn't really teach about rebirth. Those teachings of the Buddha are found in the new Buddha's teachings, Baha'u'llah. Or actually not in his teachings directly, but in things added in to his teachings by his son, Abdul Baha'.

So, we might have our interpretation and opinions about Buddhism, but they don't mean much. Buddhists do have their interpretation of what they believe to be the teachings of the Buddha. But they are wrong. The Maitreya Buddha, the promised return of Buddha, the Baha'i prophet, he has told us what the original and true teachings of the Buddha were.

And their proof? Well, their guy said so. And he was sent by God, so he should know. Why can't we just "see" the light? Maybe because their "light" is kind of dark and fuzzy?

 

[CG Didymus]

Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

Yes but unfortunately this is never obeyed.

And what does it say after Deuteronomy 4:2?

2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.​

​

3 You saw with your own eyes what the Lord did at Baal Peor. The Lord your God destroyed from among you everyone who followed the Baal of Peor, 4 but all of you who held fast to the Lord your God are still alive today.​

​

5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?​

God destroyed those who believed and worshipped the false God Baal. And God is sending them to go invade and another land. That's the God you believe in that is sending his people in to make war and to possess the land of another people.

You okay with that? What other race or nation in the Bible has the truth from this same God, the God of Israel? There is no renewal of the old religions. They were all wrong. They all believed in false Gods.

And then the quote from Revelation... It's don't add or subtract from that book, the Book of Revelation.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What Baha'is say is more than their "view" or "opinion. They are claiming they have the correct view... the right interpretation. And the Buddhists, themselves, have the wrong view. And one Baha'i, LH, is claiming that there was an "original" Buddhist teaching from Buddha himself that agrees with what the Baha'is are saying.

And where are these "original" teachings of the Buddha? That he taught about the same one God as believed by the Abrahamic religions... That didn't really teach about rebirth. Those teachings of the Buddha are found in the new Buddha's teachings, Baha'u'llah. Or actually not in his teachings directly, but in things added in to his teachings by his son, Abdul Baha'.

So, we might have our interpretation and opinions about Buddhism, but they don't mean much. Buddhists do have their interpretation of what they believe to be the teachings of the Buddha. But they are wrong. The Maitreya Buddha, the promised return of Buddha, the Baha'i prophet, he has told us what the original and true teachings of the Buddha were.

And their proof? Well, their guy said so. And he was sent by God, so he should know. Why can't we just "see" the light? Maybe because their "light" is kind of dark and fuzzy?

It is common for the Teacher of a subsequent religion to correct the misconceptions of the followers of previous religions. Why, did Buddha appear when Hinduism already existed and there were already many spiritual paths? Why did Jesus come when the Jews believed in one God. And Muhammad when the Bible teaches there is only one God? Why are Teachers regularly coming to earth?

They each seem to challenge the beliefs of the previous religion and introduce new teachings.

Buddha did this. His teachings challenged the caste system by claiming anyone could be saved, spiritually enlightened or reborn not just the higher castes.

Buddhist beliefs challenged the social structure that gave priests special access to spiritual life. Instead, Buddhism suggested that anyone could gain salvation and wisdom by letting go of desire. In this way, Buddhist teachings rejected the caste system and challenged the existing social order.

READ: Buddhism (article) | Khan Academy

Learn for free about math, art, computer programming, economics, physics, chemistry, biology, medicine, finance, history, and more. Khan Academy is a nonprofit with the mission of providing a free, world-class education for anyone, anywhere.

www.khanacademy.org

Jesus challenged the ideas, beliefs and actions in Jewish society that he lived in causing many people to despise him.
You can read more about this in the link below.

Jewish Norms : Jesus Challenged - 871 Words | Bartleby

Free Essay: Jewish Norms Which Jesus Challenged Jesus challenged the ideas, beliefs and actions in Jewish society that he lived in causing many people to...

www.bartleby.com

And so every new Teacher was despised by the followers of the previous religion because He changed or corrected a misconception held by the people of that time.

Muhammad too claims Jesus is a Prophet not God. Quran 5:116-120

So it is a proven fact that each subsequent religion challenged and corrected some views of the followers of the previous religion.

Now Baha’u’llah has done so also as well as brought teachings for the unity of mankind and unity of religion.

But He too like Christ and other Educators was despised also.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And what does it say after Deuteronomy 4:2?

2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.​

​

3 You saw with your own eyes what the Lord did at Baal Peor. The Lord your God destroyed from among you everyone who followed the Baal of Peor, 4 but all of you who held fast to the Lord your God are still alive today.​

​

5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me, so that you may follow them in the land you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to the nations, who will hear about all these decrees and say, “Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way the Lord our God is near us whenever we pray to him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and laws as this body of laws I am setting before you today?​

God destroyed those who believed and worshipped the false God Baal. And God is sending them to go invade and another land. That's the God you believe in that is sending his people in to make war and to possess the land of another people.

You okay with that? What other race or nation in the Bible has the truth from this same God, the God of Israel? There is no renewal of the old religions. They were all wrong. They all believed in false Gods.

And then the quote from Revelation... It's don't add or subtract from that book, the Book of Revelation.

Thanks for that correction. Take away from the book was in verse 19.

Before Israel existed there were other Manifestations and other religions but they have been lost in time.the earth is 4.5 billion years old so there were many more before Israel.

There are some instances in the Bible where we read about these punishments from God. People will all die one day so I believe this to be about destruction of an ideology. We know this from the current war. No matter how many wars Israel has fought only for a new generation of Jew haters to be raised up for another war. God will not allow the forces of destruction to stay forever. Hitler was overcome and so shall this group. It’s not just a matter of worship but violence against the innocent.

With the Amalekites, they had been attacking Israel for 500 years. We don’t know how long God will be patient with Hamas or Iran which has persecuted minorities for centuries but God one day will rid Iran of the evil mullas and free minorities, atheists and innocent homosexuals. ?

In fact, the Canaanite nation and culture was incredibly decadent. They practiced temple prostitution in their worship of Baal, they even practiced child sacrifice where they were killing innocent human beings supposedly in worship to God. God says these things are abominable, I want you to wipe out these people. So this isn’t just sort of making room for God’s people to come back into the land. Rather, these people were ripe for judgment and so God decided to destroy them.

Baalbek Temple and Human Sacrifice worship to Baal - Ancient History

Did God Commit Atrocities in the Old Testament? | Reasonable Faith

Conversation with William Lane Craig

www.reasonablefaith.org

 

[Vinayaka]

The whole issue of what Buddha actually taught is complicated by the complete absence of any historical text or artifact that can be reasonably attributed to Siddhartha Buddha, assuming He existed. So any arguments from Baha'is or Buddhists on the grounds of actual evidence are pure conjecture and speculation. Same deal for Krishna.

Perhaps, then, it would be helpful to drop those two from the list of previous manifestations, and that would stop the need for Buddhists and Hindus to correct the misconceptions. You've said before the Baha'u'llah says basically nothing about it. So just when did this expanded list start, and who started it?

 

[Vinayaka]

Not at all. There are many good people working for peace and we Baha’is are just one of many such groups.

But you're one of the few people on this forum or that I know in real life who seems to constantly reiterate the idea. If you stopped that, it might help.

 

[Link]

What is clear to you is anything but clear to another. When it comes to prophecies and end times, the ambiguity amplifies by several orders of magnitude.

No group had the interpretation of Baha'allah. It would mean all up to that point, no one understood the Quran the way Bahais do. Why do you suppose that is the case? Weren't Imams supposed to safeguard the proper interpretation?

Per Philosophers definition of fallacy of double meaning, God would be a liar if what Bahais say is true.

 

[Link]

Hi Link. Just came across this from the Bab regarding Seal of the Prophets. So He is agreeing that Muhammad is the last of the Prophets but of the ‘prophetic cycle’ which is the cycle where God made certain prophecies regarding things like justice and peace appearing. Now we are in the cycle of fulfilment when all those prophecies will gradually be fulfilled.

“When God sent forth His Prophet Muhammad, on that day the termination of the prophetic cycle was foreordained in the knowledge of God.”

The Báb

The Bab and Baha'allah had two different explanations of the finality of Mohammad (s). Both of them don't make sense to me and make God into a deceiver.

 

[Link]

Maybe because their "light" is kind of dark and fuzzy?

That's the case. There interpretation makes language mean almost nothing and can mean anything, and when people don't leave the clear meanings, they think it's due to arrogance. Their opinion of God is evil in my view, God is not a deceiver.

 

[loverofhumanity]

@ loverofhumanity ... in which countries is being a Baha'i punishable by death?

To my knowledge Iran and Yemen but anywhere in the Middle East is dangerous for Baha’is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's the case. There interpretation makes language mean almost nothing and can mean anything, and when people don't leave the clear meanings, they think it's due to arrogance. Their opinion of God is evil in my view, God is not a deceiver.

These are the same kinds of things said about Jesus and Muhammad and all the Prophets if you consult the Holy Books. But we believe in the same God you do as there is no other God but God.

 

[Link]

These are the same kinds of things said about Jesus and Muhammad and all the Prophets if you consult the Holy Books. But we believe in the same God you do as there is no other God but God.

No Christian or Jew says this about the Quran.

 

[Marwan]

God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest, God is the Greatest, I testify that there is no god but God, I testify that there is no god but God! All praise and glory belongs to God, the Most Glorious, the Most Good! O God! The birds praise You daily and constantly, and the trees submits to You, so does the soul, the spirits, and the demons too, willfully or not! My God, forgive my sins, save me from hell, protect me from the demons and devils, and bring me salvation! God! There is no god or deity but You! In You I trust, and to Your Will, I submit!
‐----------

I accept any religion proclaiming the Absolute True Existence of God.

I accept that Muhammad is God's True Messenger. And that the Quran is certainly inspired by God.

I accept that the Hindu Yogis of the Uphanisads are True knowers of God.

I accept Jesus and Moses and Abraham as God's True Messengers. They followed God's Will and Commands, which is to praise Him (for our own good), and to pray to Him, and He is the Hearer and Answerer to prayers. Prayers are the salvation for our lives, through prayer, our sins are Forgiven, by the Forgiver, and we are saved from hellfire, and brought to Paradise/Heaven.

 

[Vinayaka]

To my knowledge Iran and Yemen but anywhere in the Middle East is dangerous for Baha’is.

Punishable by death? My point is that although the Baha'is are being persecuted and there is no denying it, other groups have it far worse. LGBQT, atheists, the Rohingya, women in general, etc. But you're free to believe the Baha'i are the most persecuted people on the planet. Playing the victim card, is a huge competition, after all. Where exactly is this Baha'i refugee camp? It must be on the Iranian border somewhere.