What in the world is a Kaafir?

[Revoltingest]

Indeed! I like Richard Dawkins' idea that we SHOULD teach religion in schools! But it should be objective, comparative religion including atheism.

I'm skeptical of that one.

 

[exchemist]

So , the person who hides the truth is a kafir . In Qur'an it was not limited to any specific race or sect of belief . In general , Christians and Jews are called 'The people of the Book' throughout the Qur'an . Even if there is dispute , Muslims are instructed to tackle it in the following manners ( not by shouting them as Kafir/infidels etc.)

“Do not argue with the people of the scripture except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitter ." [Al-Qur’an 29:46]

What a lovely verse!

I do wish it was more widely quoted. There are plenty of People of the Book who might benefit from considering it.

 

[exchemist]

I'm skeptical of that one.

That is what is taught in a great many British schools. It has a number of advantages. One is to provide some understanding of religions other than Christianity, which is important in our multi-ethnic cities. It helps avoid the propagation of myths and prejudices. Another is to immunise students against ideas such as creationism, by allowing them to be discussed in a dispassionate setting, NOT in science classes. A third is to give students some inkling of the commonalities behind the religious impulse, which can help them be a bit more understanding towards believers of various sorts, even when they themselves don't have a religious belief. Fourthly, Christianity, specifically, is crucially important in European culture: it is hard to understand the art, literature and music properly without it.

 

[MNoBody]

what man lights a lamp and sets it under a bushel rather than on the lampstand?

 

[firedragon]

QUOTE
The term is used in different ways in the Quran, with the most fundamental sense being "ingratitude" (toward God).[7][8]Historically, while Islamic scholars agreed that a polytheist is a kafir, they sometimes disagreed on the propriety of applying the term to Muslims who committed a grave sin and to the People of the Book.[8][7] The Quran distinguishes between mushrikun and People of the Book, reserving the former term for idol worshipers, although some classical commentators considered Christian doctrine to be a form of shirk.[9] In modern times, kafir is sometimes used as a derogatory term,[10][3][11] particularly by members of Islamist movements.[1
UNQUOTE

From: Kafir - Wikipedia

I suppose it comes down to whether one thinks that the People of the Book are, in their different traditions, acknowledging the same Allah.

Ahlul kithab do not become a kafir just because they are ahlul kithab. Lets say I call a man rogue, all men dont become rogues.

 

[exchemist]

Ahlul kithab do not become a kafir just because they are ahlul kithab. Lets say I call a man rogue, all men dont become rogues.

Indeed.

 

[firedragon]

If you wish to look at the dictionary meaning, you should look at the dictionary meaning, and make the distinction between it and the interpretation based on point of view.

Kafara in its root as your screenshots say to hide something. All other meanings necessarily stem from this root meaning.

e.g. Kufaranee Hakki which means someone denied my right. When i deny a bad thing it is still an act of kafara. A man who denies he borrowed money from you in courts is a kaafir. He is doing an act of Kufr.

 

[firedragon]

That is what is taught in a great many British schools. It has a number of advantages. One is to provide some understanding of religions other than Christianity, which is important in our multi-ethnic cities. It helps avoid the propagation of myths and prejudices. Another is to immunise students against ideas such as creationism, by allowing them to be discussed in a dispassionate setting, NOT in science classes. A third is to give students some inkling of the commonalities behind the religious impulse, which can help them be a bit more understanding towards believers of various sorts, even when they themselves don't have a religious belief. Fourthly, Christianity, specifically, is crucially important in European culture: it is hard to understand the art, literature and music properly without it.

I must agree with you. I also believe that Understanding religion is also understanding human development and decline. Christianity gave birth to a western leapforward in advancement. Denying this is denial. Even if the religion is false or not, thats a whole different subject.

 

[firedragon]

So , the person who hides the truth is a kafir . In Qur'an it was not limited to any specific race or sect of belief . In general , Christians and Jews are called 'The people of the Book' throughout the Qur'an . Even if there is dispute , Muslims are instructed to tackle it in the following manners ( not by shouting them as Kafir/infidels etc.)

“Do not argue with the people of the scripture except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitter ." [Al-Qur’an 29:46]

Great. Id like to add to that.

Greet people well

And if you are greeted with a greeting, then return an even better greeting or return the same. God is Reckoning over all things - Quran 4:86

Humility

And be humble in how you walk and lower your voice. For the harshest of all voices is the voice of the donkeys. - Quran 31:19

Invite to your path with wisdom and good advice

Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and good advice, and argue with them in that which is better. Your Lord is fully aware of who is misguided from His path, and He is fully aware of the guided ones. - Quran 16:125

Speak well with good words

Have you not seen how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the heaven. It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people, perhaps they will remember. - Quran 14:24-25

Do not speak with bad words

And the example of a bad word is like a tree which has been uprooted from the surface of the earth, it has nowhere to settle. - Quran 14:26

Patience and mercy

And race towards forgiveness from your Lord and a Paradise whose width encompasses the width of the heavens and of the earth; it has been prepared for the righteous. The ones who spend in prosperity and adversity, and who repress anger, and who pardon the people; God loves the good doers. - Quran 3:133-134

Practice goodness against your enemy

Not equal are the good and the bad response. You shall resort to the one which is better. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend. - Quran 41:34

Do not be arrogant or insolent

And do not turn your cheek arrogantly from people, nor shall you roam the earth insolently. For God does not love the arrogant show off. - Quran 31:18

Humility and wisdom

And the servants of the Almighty who walk on the earth in humility and if the ignorant speak to them, they say: ‘Peace. - Quran 25:63

Don’t insult those of other religions. Do not play God.

And do not insult those who call on other than God, lest they insult God out of ignorance. And We have similarly adorned for every nation their works; then to their Lord is their return and He will inform them of what they had done. - Quran 6:108

Do not mock others

O you who believe, let not a people ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names; miserable indeed is the name of wickedness after attaining faith. And anyone who does not repent, then these are the transgressors.” - Quran 49:11

Do not practice suspicion and backbiting

O you who believe, you shall avoid much suspicion, for some suspicion is sinful. And do not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite. Would any of you enjoy eating the flesh of his dead brother? You certainly would hate this. You shall observe God. God is Redeemer, Merciful. - Quran 49:12

No racism

O mankind, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Surely, the most honourable among you in the sight of God is the most righteous. God is Knowledgeable, Expert.” - Quran 49:13

 

[firedragon]

The OP is interesting. To me, the elephant in the room in this case is that Islam seems to so frequently engender "us vs. them" thinking, and here we go again.

Everyone does that. Atheists do it equally. Since of late ive been thinking they do it to a seriously elevated degree to every other ism or thing.

 

[icehorse]

Everyone does that. Atheists do it equally. Since of late ive been thinking they do it to a seriously elevated degree to every other ism or thing.

i would say different belief systems seem to engender different levels of "us vs. them" thinking and secular humanists are on the light end of the spectrum. Remember, it's us SHists who fight hard for your freedom of religion

 

[firedragon]

i would say different belief systems seem to engender different levels of "us vs. them" thinking and secular humanists are on the light end of the spectrum. Remember, it's us SHists who fight hard for your freedom of religion

You proved it. Very good. You are worse in the "us vs you" thing. Always. Rest are strawman's and a shot at degrading humans while trying to push your complex a bit for some dose of satisfaction that may be lacking otherwise. You will, of course, wish to do the same in the immediate next comment if not actually activate it.

Cheers.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is what is taught in a great many British schools. It has a number of advantages. One is to provide some understanding of religions other than Christianity, which is important in our multi-ethnic cities. It helps avoid the propagation of myths and prejudices. Another is to immunise students against ideas such as creationism, by allowing them to be discussed in a dispassionate setting, NOT in science classes. A third is to give students some inkling of the commonalities behind the religious impulse, which can help them be a bit more understanding towards believers of various sorts, even when they themselves don't have a religious belief. Fourthly, Christianity, specifically, is crucially important in European culture: it is hard to understand the art, literature and music properly without it.

As one who attended school before the USSC decision to stop
public school teachers from preaching their religion to us, I see
the risk that it would allow indoctrination to creep back in.
Also, that would take time away from other subjects. Not saying
it couldn't be beneficial, but I don't like it. Btw, in junior high
school, we did survey religions (1960s).

 

[MNoBody]

I must agree with you. I also believe that Understanding religion is also understanding human development and decline. Christianity gave birth to a western leapforward in advancement. Denying this is denial. Even if the religion is false or not, thats a whole different subject.

actually my impression is that the theocratic form of christianity
retarded and held back the advancement of the species by locking things up in mystery doctrine, and superstition.
I would say a religion like for example Judaism has promoted more inquisitive thinking over time than christianity ever has....since where do a large percentage of the bright ideas come from
the vanguard of thinkers has been stacked with many people who follow judaism [ unless they are swiping lots of the ideas[g*d forbid] but i think it isn't so] ,
and that hasn't been really mirrored by institutional/official christianity really ever
they gave us the dark ages of ignorance and caused millions of people to suffer and die over their tenure ...so, sorry, not really convinced due to the historical record and personal experience
[and yes i know there are examples to the contrary]

 

[firedragon]

actually my impression is that the theocratic form of christianity
retarded and held back the advancement of the species by locking things up in mystery doctrine, and superstition.
I would say a religion like for example Judaism has promoted more inquisitive thinking over time than christianity ever has....since where do a large percentage of the bright ideas come from
the vanguard of thinkers has been stacked with many people who follow judaism [ unless they are swiping lots of the ideas[g*d forbid] but i think it isn't so] ,
and that hasn't been really mirrored by institutional/official christianity really ever
they gave us the dark ages of ignorance and caused millions of people to suffer and die over their tenure ...so, sorry, not really convinced due to the historical record and personal experience
[and yes i know there are examples to the contrary]

See, what you are doing is taking a certain era and generalising it.

Anyway, you have argued that Judaism has given advancement. It still speaks to my point. I was only giving an example of Christianity.

Also, Isac Newton was a Christian. Not just a Christian but a respected theologian. And thats modern times in history. Go back in time and think of all the events leading upto the rennaissance. Dont negate things so easily.

You are talking about Judaism and scientific advancement yet this is new in that case. Its not old, its 20th century. While acknowledging that they are winning Nobel prizes at a rate, you still cannot generalise to the whole history of mankind the way you have done.

 

[exchemist]

As one who attended school before the USSC decision to stop
public school teachers from preaching their religion to us, I see
the risk that it would allow indoctrination to creep back in.
Also, that would take time away from other subjects. Not saying
it couldn't be beneficial, but I don't like it. Btw, in junior high
school, we did survey religions (1960s).

Yes no doubt in the US Bible Belt some people would try abuse it to evangelise their own beliefs, possibly even with the connivance of the head teacher. In most places in Britain parents would complain if they tried that on - especially in city schools, where the pupils don't all come from a Christian background.