What Is “Heaven”?

[Jimmy]

Heaven is a metaphor for an existence absent evil, and only having all the qualities of being that are admirable and worthwhile. Heaven is in the imagination.

For me the goal is love, joy, and peace found in all virtues being fulfilled.

I only use terms like heaven, and hell metaphorically in reference to actual realities that exist throughout the course of living life.
Unfortunately people sometimes have to go through hell, and hardship to ever appreciate a heaven day. Heaven is a state of being where everything is at its best.

The religions that claim heaven and hell are real places are void of any significant meaning. Usually it fits human fantasies that I want no part of because they are either blind, immoral or both.

I agree, but we do need a place to realize this “heaven” and for me it’s earth.

 

[Jimmy]

I don't care, I don't want to be trapped in a cycle - and now I know it don't I???????

If what you say is true then I now know it - I now know that when you die it will become 1980 again!

Dear God,

If you are reading this and the world is like how @Jimmy says it is then please release me and all others from repeating this life over and over

Amen

If God ignores me then that will mean he is holding me captive

If what you say is true then I want out

If God doesn't let me out then wouldn't that make him nasty and contemptable?

I know it now too but it doesn’t matter. I only have one life to live.

 

[Eddi]

I know it now too but it doesn’t matter. I only have one life to live.

That's very defeatist of you, that's very passive

I don't think God wants us to be defeatist and passive

Are you really going to let God trap you in the same cycle for all eternity?

To me that would be Hell

Your life may be lovely but what about everyone else?

And don't say it doesn't matter as they don't know - that's a cop-out because every time they re-live their life in your hellish never-ending circle they could be living another and more fulfilling life and progressing spiritually

Why don't you want people to progress spiritually?

Are you afraid of change? Or just very attached to your early life, so much that you want to re-live it over and over, again and again?

What drives you to want to live your life over and over?

You may love the sound of that but from my perspective that sounds horrendous and bleak

 

[Jimmy]

That's very defeatist of you, that's very passive

I don't think God wants us to be defeatist and passive

Are you really going to let God trap you in the same cycle for all eternity?

To me that would be Hell

Your life may be lovely but what about everyone else?

And don't say it doesn't matter as they don't know - that's a cop-out because every time they re-live their life in your hellish never-ending circle they could be living another and more fulfilling life and progressing spiritually

Why don't you want people to progress spiritually?

Are you afraid of change? Or just very attached to your early life, so much that you want to re-live it over and over, again and again?

What drives you to want to live your life over and over?

You may love the sound of that but from my perspective that sounds horrendous and bleak

I hate the bad too. I can’t change God.

 

[Eddi]

I hate the bad too. I can’t change God.

How do you know that?

How do you know God doesn't answer prayers?

Sure, maybe he doesn't

But why not see if he does?

Personally, I think God does answer prayers

If I thought I'd have to live my life over and over I would be on my knees for hours every day begging him to stop the cycle

This world is very Hellish for a great many people - the good thing to do would be to want to move on from that and improve things, not repeat it all, where's the sense in that??????

Why would God want to repeat all the wars and atrocities that have recently happened over and over?

It doesn't make sense unless he is a total *******

 

[Jimmy]

I don't care, I don't want to be trapped in a cycle - and now I know it don't I???????

If what you say is true then I now know it - I now know that when you die it will become 1980 again!

Dear God,

If you are reading this and the world is like how @Jimmy says it is then please release me and all others from repeating this life over and over

Amen

If God ignores me then that will mean he is holding me captive

If what you say is true then I want out

If God doesn't let me out then wouldn't that make him nasty and contemptable?

You don’t believe this so why you getting all fired up?

 

[Eddi]

You don’t believe this so why you getting all fired up?

You yourself brought this up in a debate section, you brought up your beliefs and I am now trying to debate you

If you didn't want that you could have put it in Interfaith Discussion or some other non-debate area

I think what you are saying is absurd and from what I see you cannot defend it

I think it is absurd and not reasonable and you have said nothing to make me think otherwise

 

[Jimmy]

How do you know that?

How do you know God doesn't answer prayers?

Sure, maybe he doesn't

But why not see if he does?

Personally, I think God does answer prayers

If I thought I'd have to live my life over and over I would be on my knees for hours every day begging him to stop the cycle

This world is very Hellish for a great many people - the good thing to do would be to want to move on from that and improve things, not repeat it all, where's the sense in that??????

Why would God want to repeat all the wars and atrocities that have recently happened over and over?

It doesn't make sense unless he is a total *******

If I had a bad life full of suffering, it wouldn’t change the nature of my being.

 

[osgart]

I agree, but we do need a place to realize this “heaven” and for me it’s earth.

I think it's highly important to take life as it is and little by little make better possible. It's nice to have fantasies and dreams that inspire one to make this place better. People get into trouble when they live this life as if it's not as important as their afterlife.

Reality is always throwing its terms and conditions for living upon us all. Come failure or success it's worth it just to do one's best in this life. For self and for others one person makes a difference. Even just a little is worthwhile. If I can make peace with myself about it according to worthy standards I feel like I've lived a worthwhile existence, if not heaven, I can make peace in hell.

 

[Eddi]

If I had a bad life full of suffering, it wouldn’t change the nature of my being.

If I remember correctly, Nietzsche wrote about that..........

About wanting to live the same life over and over and to be the same person again and again

 

[Trailblazer]

It's still very bleak.....

It sounds like God doesn't care for us if he'd do that

God does care, which is why we will never have to start over and why we will never have to come back to this world as per reincarnation.

I believe that God wants us to develop and to develop a relationship with him

I fully agree.

According to you, he doesn't, he just wants us to go round and round over and over again and again - what is the point in that? What does God get out of that?

No, God does not want us to go round and round over and over again and again. There would be no point in that.
God would get nothing from that and neither would we.

So I can never share your beliefs as they violate my core God concept

They also violate my core God concept.

I believe life is a part of a long, long journey - a linear journey - that we are supposed to progress onwards and upwards

That is also what I believe, and I believe that journey onwards and upwards continues after our physical death.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 155-158

I think going round and round, always coming back to 1980 would be pointless and nobody would get anything out of that, including God

I fully agree.

I am very thankful that I am pretty sure that things don't work the way you say they do

Sounds Hellish to me

I am also thankful it won't be like that and I am sure it won't be.

 

[Jimmy]

I think it's highly important to take life as it is and little by little make better possible. It's nice to have fantasies and dreams that inspire one to make this place better. People get into trouble when they live this life as if it's not as important as their afterlife.

Reality is always throwing its terms and conditions for living upon us all. Come failure or success it's worth it just to do one's best in this life. For self and for others one person makes a difference. Even just a little is worthwhile. If I can make peace with myself about it according to worthy standards I feel like I've lived a worthwhile existence, if not heaven, I can make peace in hell.

Yeah, we only get one life to live.

 

[Jimmy]

If I remember correctly, Nietzsche wrote about that..........

About wanting to live the same life over and over and to be the same person again and again

I think I heard that a couple yrs ago.

 

[Jimmy]

If I remember correctly, Nietzsche wrote about that..........

About wanting to live the same life over and over and to be the same person again and again

I guess the idea of eternal recurrence wasn’t original to Nietzsche. I just googled it. There’s another concept called eternal return. It’s the same thing . I guess it originated in ancient Greece. I don’t think either of them discuss how it happens, though . Anyway, I never heard about these until it popped in my head one day when I was contemplating how existence came to be.

 

[Eddi]

I just googled it.

Me too!!

Anyway, I never heard about these until it popped in my head one day when I was contemplating how existence came to be.

I think it's a fairly obvious idea

I think it makes for good food for thought.......

But I personally don't take it seriously

 

[Jimmy]

Me too!!

I think it's a fairly obvious idea

I think it makes for good food for thought.......

But I personally don't take it seriously

Obvious? I was 35 when I thought of it. For me it wasn’t that obvious. Everything made sense after though.

 

[Eddi]

Obvious? I was 35 when I thought of it. For me it wasn’t that obvious. Everything made sense after though.

Yes, it's not all that original or mind-blowing - it's a bit like the situation in Groundhog Day, but not quite...

I think it's on the same level as the idea that reality is a computer simulation - Good for a bit of fun but nothing to be taken too seriously

 

[Jimmy]

Yes, it's not all that original or mind-blowing - it's a bit like the situation in Groundhog Day, but not quite...

I think it's on the same level as the idea that reality is a computer simulation - Good for a bit of fun but nothing to be taken too seriously

This is a permanent thing for me, unlike your quick lived belief in a computer simulation.

 

[Eddi]

This is a permanent thing for me, unlike your quick lived belief in a computer simulation.

It's the same type of belief though - technically not impossible but very unlikely

 

[Madsaac]

For me, Heaven is nothing like this Earth, which is a storehouse of suffering, with more suffering for some people than for others.

"O thou seeker of the Kingdom! Thy letter was received. Thou hast written of the severe calamity that hath befallen thee—the death of thy respected husband. That honourable man hath been so subjected to the stress and strain of this world that his greatest wish was for deliverance from it. Such is this mortal abode: a storehouse of afflictions and suffering. It is ignorance that binds man to it, for no comfort can be secured by any soul in this world, from monarch down to the most humble commoner. If once this life should offer a man a sweet cup, a hundred bitter ones will follow; such is the condition of this world. The wise man, therefore, doth not attach himself to this mortal life and doth not depend upon it; at some moments, even, he eagerly wisheth for death that he may thereby be freed from these sorrows and afflictions. Thus it is seen that some, under extreme pressure of anguish, have committed suicide."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 200-201

And no, it is not ignorance that binds man to this world, it is God, since God created this world and expects us to live in it.

Dream on. Love does not abide in most families. Ever looked at the divorce rate and all the people looking for love?

This heaven sounds like hope to some people. And that's cool, whatever helps people get through their life, is a good thing.

Do you think God created this world a little crappy 'a storehouse of suffering' so we will appreciate heaven more? Otherwise, why did he create it in the first place?