What is a sign from god(s)?

[illykitty]

Sounds like a simple question on the surface but there's so many possible answers. I know this kind of thing is often quite personal, but overall, what would you consider to be a sign?

For example, if you prayed for someone and that prayer came true, would that be a sign, no matter what? Couldn't it be coincidence or simply something that was going to happen anyway? How do you know if came from god(s) and wasn't just a natural event? After all, atheists get cured of illness too, without prayers. This is only one example, of course, I just lack the imagination of what a sign looks like.

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Note: I posted this in debates, because I want for anyone to be able to ask questions, debate ideas and reply to others but I also considered posting this in interfaith dialogue. Please don't make me regret posting this here. I hope this thread remains civil, thank you.

 

[Quintessence]

I would not consider myself a "person of faith," but I'm pretty sure you basically meant "theists" regardless of whether or not the tradition is faith-based?

What's interesting about this question is that the answers hinge on the specific variety of theism being discussed, as well as the surrounding theology and whatever religious traditions are packaged up along with it.

For example, in traditions where the gods are everything and everywhere (theologies of divine immanence), everything is a "sign" and there isn't some dichotomy between gods and nature. Nature is the gods, and everything that happens is a sign. It's not a matter of "distinguishing" signs, but noticing them. The job of the practitioner is to extract that meaningfulness by being observant and mindful.

This contrasts starkly to theologies that emphasize the separation of deity from nature. There, the question you ask becomes more poignant and as someone who is not a member of such a tradition, I'm not sure I can offer much insight. The idea of gods and nature not being the same thing is strange to me, and I don't get how they could know either beyond simply going on instinct.

 

[BSM1]

Just look when and where you least expect it. Signs are very subjective and I don't think anyone can describe them completely. There are times when I have had signs as small as one word; other times they have been billboards. Keep an open mind.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

A story from a friend:

Rev. Randy, the minister at one of the churches in town, was beginning to think it was time for him to leave this particular church and move on. He had a hard time articulating this to his friend, Bill, but they went out one day during bowhunting season together, mainly so Rev. Randy could air his thoughts, dreams and fears without the likelihood of interruption. Bill was a pagan, and Rev. Randy knew it--it was why he could trust Bill to listen and not spread what he said around town.

The two men settled down on a log on an exposed sandbar in the creekbed. Rev. Randy had already been minister at two other churches, and always knew for sure when it was time to move on. Not this time; he was consumed by doubt, although none of the church leadership had indicated there was any problem with his service...there was still this nagging feeling that it was time to move on.

Bill listened quietly to Rev. Randy as the morning grew warm and the continued to sit on the log in the creekbed, letting his friend do the talking. Finally, at long last, Rev. Randy said, "I wish God would give me a sign."

The words had barely left his lips when there was a loud crashing in the undergrowth alongside the creek. A huge buck with massive antlers emerged, came down the bank, and stopped not 20 feet in front of the astonished hunters.

They did not move. The Buck looked directly at Rev. Randy for several minutes, unmoving. Then, with a tremendous snort, the animal shook his antlered head, turned, and walked down the creekbed until he was out of sight around the bend.

The two men looked at each other. They said nothing for many minutes. Finally, Rev. Randy looked at his watch, cleared his throat, and said, "Well, I've got to be getting back. I've got some things to attend to."

The next day, he notified the church elders that he would be leaving the pastorship at the end of the month.

How was that for a sign?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Something that happens are the signs. It sounds mundane but when you value everything that happens in your life as a lesson of some sort regardless of who or what you attribute it to, it's a sign.

Supernatural signs? I don't believe there is the supernatural. A lot of it is synchronicity based on how we are raised and our biases etc. Our morals and personal feelings about life.

I mean, I can take a quarter and 100 of the time tell you if it's heads or tails. Heads usually happens when flip it on the back of your hand, tails happens when you drop it on the floor (if I remember correctly). But it's an intuition rather than a hard guideline. Is it a sign? Well, I use it for the bus and other events of my life that I found patterns. Though, I'm sure there is a technical term for it.

Just depends on the person and that person's belief. I may contribute some signs coming from my grandmothers. Others may say they just happen. Doesn't mean it's mundane either way. It just depends on how you want to see it and how much value it has to you as well.

 

[YmirGF]

Signs, unfortunately, are more often that not our own confirmation bias merrily pulling our legs. Based on expectation, we automatically zero out anything that does not match what we are looking for, so that the only thing left standing when the music stops is the thing we were looking for. That's why these events stand out.

 

[MJFlores]

Sounds like a simple question on the surface but there's so many possible answers. I know this kind of thing is often quite personal, but overall, what would you consider to be a sign?

For example, if you prayed for someone and that prayer came true, would that be a sign, no matter what? Couldn't it be coincidence or simply something that was going to happen anyway? How do you know if came from god(s) and wasn't just a natural event? After all, atheists get cured of illness too, without prayers. This is only one example, of course, I just lack the imagination of what a sign looks like.

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Note: I posted this in debates, because I want for anyone to be able to ask questions, debate ideas and reply to others but I also considered posting this in interfaith dialogue. Please don't make me regret posting this here. I hope this thread remains civil, thank you.

There are no signs.
Even the Jews, in the Lord Jesus time on earth, asked for a sign.

Matthew 12:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

However the Lord Jesus gave a hint of the sign of his second advent.

Matthew 24:3,24
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

So who would perform the great signs in these last days? The false messiahs and prophets will use great signs to deceive.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In India, God generally makes a loud announcement from the sky. This we term as Akāsh Vāni (Voice from the sky). The last time, it was 'Maya', the inseparable part of God that did it, it was at the time of birth of Lord Krishna to warn the evil king, Kamsa of Mathura. This is what Goddess Maya said to Kamsa:

"O Kaṁsa, you fool, what will be the use of killing me? The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who has been your enemy from the very beginning and who will certainly kill you, has already taken His birth somewhere else. Therefore, do not unnecessarily kill other children."
Text according to SrimadBhagawat Purana as translated by A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
SB 10.4: The Atrocities of King Kaṁsa

 

[illykitty]

I would not consider myself a "person of faith," but I'm pretty sure you basically meant "theists" regardless of whether or not the tradition is faith-based?

What's interesting about this question is that the answers hinge on the specific variety of theism being discussed, as well as the surrounding theology and whatever religious traditions are packaged up along with it.

For example, in traditions where the gods are everything and everywhere (theologies of divine immanence), everything is a "sign" and there isn't some dichotomy between gods and nature. Nature is the gods, and everything that happens is a sign. It's not a matter of "distinguishing" signs, but noticing them. The job of the practitioner is to extract that meaningfulness by being observant and mindful.

This contrasts starkly to theologies that emphasize the separation of deity from nature. There, the question you ask becomes more poignant and as someone who is not a member of such a tradition, I'm not sure I can offer much insight. The idea of gods and nature not being the same thing is strange to me, and I don't get how they could know either beyond simply going on instinct.

Yes admittedly my question had some more specific types of theism in mind. Not just Abrahamic, but since I'm from Abrahamic cultures, then it's what I'm used to hearing. However your response did bring up some curiosity within me. Perhaps too many questions popped into my head.

What do signs mean to you? How does one notice them? What is meaningfulness? How does one interpret these signs and not be led astray? I'm all too new to my views to really understand nature and its messages. I realise these are huge questions that merit their own thread in Pagan sub-forums though... Perhaps I should post these sometime.

Anyway, I don't expect you to reply to these in any details, just that it's what your answer made me think of.

 

[viole]

Sounds like a simple question on the surface but there's so many possible answers. I know this kind of thing is often quite personal, but overall, what would you consider to be a sign?

For example, if you prayed for someone and that prayer came true, would that be a sign, no matter what? Couldn't it be coincidence or simply something that was going to happen anyway? How do you know if came from god(s) and wasn't just a natural event? After all, atheists get cured of illness too, without prayers. This is only one example, of course, I just lack the imagination of what a sign looks like.

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Note: I posted this in debates, because I want for anyone to be able to ask questions, debate ideas and reply to others but I also considered posting this in interfaith dialogue. Please don't make me regret posting this here. I hope this thread remains civil, thank you.

My favorite sign would be waking up tomorrow and hear the CNN say: all believers in God do now believe in the same identical God.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Nakosis]

Sounds like a simple question on the surface but there's so many possible answers. I know this kind of thing is often quite personal, but overall, what would you consider to be a sign?

For example, if you prayed for someone and that prayer came true, would that be a sign, no matter what? Couldn't it be coincidence or simply something that was going to happen anyway? How do you know if came from god(s) and wasn't just a natural event? After all, atheists get cured of illness too, without prayers. This is only one example, of course, I just lack the imagination of what a sign looks like.

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Note: I posted this in debates, because I want for anyone to be able to ask questions, debate ideas and reply to others but I also considered posting this in interfaith dialogue. Please don't make me regret posting this here. I hope this thread remains civil, thank you.

While personally I don't believe in signs, my son does. Seems he can make a sign out of anything. Birds seem to be a particularly potent sign for him

For example if he sees a flock of birds flying in one direction, he'll head in that direct as it's the universe telling him something. And something always happens. Good, bad, whatever, he's supposed to learn something from it.

Folks make their decisions based on signs. I guess that's one way to get through life. Whereas I try to make my decisions based of my knowledge of things but there is a limit to that knowledge so random things happen anyway.

I don't know if one way is any better. You end up where you are as a result of your choices and deal with whatever you find there. That's life.

 

[sun rise]

My experience with 'signs' come in a way that non-believers would dismiss as coincidences. This is one example - I have no rational proof but I believe it was.

I waited too long to go to a special event and found all accommodations booked. So I resigned myself to missing the event but I left my request open. Then I was asked if I wanted to come to one day - flying in and leaving the same day because there was a bit of an opening. Then I was told that there was a bed in an outbuilding, roughing it. Then I was asked if I was a photographer as there was a call for someone to record the event - this came out of the blue. I said yes. Then I was told that there was accommodations in the main building.

It's easy to dismiss such things as coincidences but when they happen, when closed doors open repeatedly, they become harder and harder to dismiss as mere coincidences.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't really use the concept, but I would think that the signs would be highly personal and therefore of very limited value in convincing others.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

Sounds like a simple question on the surface but there's so many possible answers. I know this kind of thing is often quite personal, but overall, what would you consider to be a sign?

For example, if you prayed for someone and that prayer came true, would that be a sign, no matter what? Couldn't it be coincidence or simply something that was going to happen anyway? How do you know if came from god(s) and wasn't just a natural event? After all, atheists get cured of illness too, without prayers. This is only one example, of course, I just lack the imagination of what a sign looks like.

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Note: I posted this in debates, because I want for anyone to be able to ask questions, debate ideas and reply to others but I also considered posting this in interfaith dialogue. Please don't make me regret posting this here. I hope this thread remains civil, thank you.

Okay so I was going to type out this really long response that might be summed up as "if you really believe in the gods then it might just be hard to say and up to you." but then I noticed you are a tiny cat. Now all I want to do is pet the kitty.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

I find a biblical ' sign' would be a ' sign' as found described in the Bible.
The rest would be unexpected events.
For example:
Jesus gave us a composite ' sign ', so to speak, at Matthew chapter 24.
There Jesus describes world conditions as we see today which is in harmony with the description of how people today would have a selfish distorted form of love as described at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13 and conditions would go from bad to worse which is the opposite of the definition of Christ-like love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.

In the parallel ' sign ' account at Luke chapter 21 Luke even adds the adjective 'great ' at Luke 21:11 in describing the types of earthquakes that would be part of the ' sign' happening in our day, or time frame, before Jesus begins his 1,000-year reign over Earth. Then, at that time, there will be healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2.

The international proclaiming today about the good news as mentioned at Matthew 24:14 is also a ' sign' and because that spiritual work is being done today on a global scale as never before in history shows that as a final ' sign ' . Lastly we are also nearing the final 'sign' or 'signal' when ' they ' (powers that be) will be saying, "Peace and Security" as the final 'sign ' or 'signal' before the start of the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14.

 

[Tumah]

My favorite sign would be waking up tomorrow and hear the CNN say: all believers in God do now believe in the same identical God.

Ciao

- viole

Yeah, I'd like that one too...

 

[Quintessence]

What do signs mean to you? How does one notice them? What is meaningfulness? How does one interpret these signs and not be led astray? I'm all too new to my views to really understand nature and its messages.

I don't think one ever masters it, and in many respects it is the journey and the work - the practice - that is important. It is definitely a complex question and one that could be its entire thread.

One thing I might note is that when I hear the word "signs" I tend to think specifically of omens, which is a form of divination. Divination grounded on omens looks at patterns in the world and interprets them for their significance. Omens can either be spontaneous (like the chance appearance of a particular bird) or non-spontaneous (such as the position of the stars in the sky). Like any divination, there are various schools of thought for interpreting omens - some are more prescribed and structured, others more freeform. And like any divination, interpreting omens requires trust in oneself and one's abilities, plus a good deal of honest self-scruity or introspection. The complexity means there's good reason why some religious traditions consider divination taboo or reserve that role for specially trained individuals.

 

[Muffled]

Sounds like a simple question on the surface but there's so many possible answers. I know this kind of thing is often quite personal, but overall, what would you consider to be a sign?

For example, if you prayed for someone and that prayer came true, would that be a sign, no matter what? Couldn't it be coincidence or simply something that was going to happen anyway? How do you know if came from god(s) and wasn't just a natural event? After all, atheists get cured of illness too, without prayers. This is only one example, of course, I just lack the imagination of what a sign looks like.

I'm very intrigued on how a person of faith distinguishes whether something is a sign or simply something that happens.

Note: I posted this in debates, because I want for anyone to be able to ask questions, debate ideas and reply to others but I also considered posting this in interfaith dialogue. Please don't make me regret posting this here. I hope this thread remains civil, thank you.

I believe a sign is something that would not ordinarily happen but happens so God can get a person's attention.. For instance the burning bush is a sign because usually a burning bush would be consumed.

I believe healing may be considered a wonder ie that which does not ordinarily happen but has no message to convey.

 

[Muffled]

A story from a friend:

Rev. Randy, the minister at one of the churches in town, was beginning to think it was time for him to leave this particular church and move on. He had a hard time articulating this to his friend, Bill, but they went out one day during bowhunting season together, mainly so Rev. Randy could air his thoughts, dreams and fears without the likelihood of interruption. Bill was a pagan, and Rev. Randy knew it--it was why he could trust Bill to listen and not spread what he said around town.

The two men settled down on a log on an exposed sandbar in the creekbed. Rev. Randy had already been minister at two other churches, and always knew for sure when it was time to move on. Not this time; he was consumed by doubt, although none of the church leadership had indicated there was any problem with his service...there was still this nagging feeling that it was time to move on.

Bill listened quietly to Rev. Randy as the morning grew warm and the continued to sit on the log in the creekbed, letting his friend do the talking. Finally, at long last, Rev. Randy said, "I wish God would give me a sign."

The words had barely left his lips when there was a loud crashing in the undergrowth alongside the creek. A huge buck with massive antlers emerged, came down the bank, and stopped not 20 feet in front of the astonished hunters.

They did not move. The Buck looked directly at Rev. Randy for several minutes, unmoving. Then, with a tremendous snort, the animal shook his antlered head, turned, and walked down the creekbed until he was out of sight around the bend.

The two men looked at each other. They said nothing for many minutes. Finally, Rev. Randy looked at his watch, cleared his throat, and said, "Well, I've got to be getting back. I've got some things to attend to."

The next day, he notified the church elders that he would be leaving the pastorship at the end of the month.

How was that for a sign?

I believe it is not a clear sign. Deer do that on occasion. However following his wish it makes it a bit more likely. The trouble is it isn't a message that tells him which way to go but maybe that was the whole idea. God may have been expecting him to make the decision.

 

[Muffled]

There are no signs.
Even the Jews, in the Lord Jesus time on earth, asked for a sign.
View attachment 17928

Matthew 12:38-40 New International Version (NIV)

Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

However the Lord Jesus gave a hint of the sign of his second advent.

Matthew 24:3,24
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

So who would perform the great signs in these last days? The false messiahs and prophets will use great signs to deceive.

What do you think the message was in the sign of the resurrection?