What is a soul?

[icehorse]

A cognitive scientist "might" say this:

About 95% of what our brains do, occurs subconsciously. Our egos mostly exist in the remaining 5%. It's our egos that are engaging in this thread. Our egos like to think they're in charge of our beings, but most mostly they're not. (This is an uncomfortable idea for many egos!)

So it "could" be that the soul is our subconscious. Or some combination of our subconscious and our motor system.

 

[osgart]

We know now that all of this happens in the brain. There is no evidence for a soul, and no need to invoke the idea of soul to make things work. It's all done through the brain

How so? Can you demonstrate that? What's the model and the evidence?

 

[shunyadragon]

Great minds think alike I had the same response.

My pet rock broke my computer mouse.

 

[dybmh]

My pet rock broke my computer mouse.

How did it break? The only time I've had a mouse die on me, was way-way back before they were optical, and they needed to be cleaned constantly. Wow, that was a long time ago.

 

[shunyadragon]

How did it break? The only time I've had a mouse die on me, was way-way back before they were optical, and they needed to be cleaned constantly. Wow, that was a long time ago.

The pet rock broke its back. The marks clearly point to the guilty party. If convicted the pet rock will be buried alive.

 

[dybmh]

The pet rock broke its back. The marks clearly point to the guilty party. If convicted the pet rock will be buried alive.

I'll get my kazoo to play at the funeral.

 

[shunyadragon]

I'll get my kazoo to play at the funeral.

All 'pet rocks' return to where rocks come from rock heaven six feet under.

 

[dybmh]

All 'pet rocks' return to where rocks come from rock heaven six feet under.

Your-pet-rock, will always and forever be, your-pet-rock. Even after it breaks down into its constituent components, even after you and I are no longer walking around on the planet. Even after the sun has lost its shine... guess what? It's still your-pet-rock. We could argue, maybe, about what happens if you sell it, or disown it, but, those are just petty semantics and can be countered with more petty semantics.

 

[shunyadragon]

A cognitive scientist "might" say this:

About 95% of what our brains do, occurs subconsciously. Our egos mostly exist in the remaining 5%. It's our egos that are engaging in this thread. Our egos like to think they're in charge of our beings, but most mostly they're not. (This is an uncomfortable idea for many egos!)

So it "could" be that the soul is our subconscious. Or some combination of our subconscious and our motor system.

It is very unlikely a cognitive scientist would ever do this.

 

[George-ananda]

What is a soul?
How does a soul interact with the physical world?
How does one's soul relate to consciousness?

Here's how I see it from my Theosophical and Hindu background.

Consciousness is fundamental. A soul is an entity that exists in a higher plane of nature not detectable by the gross physical plane. The soul then influences bodies on the progressively denser planes of nature, the astral and the physical. The soul experiences many incarnations on the lower planes (reincarnation).

 

[shunyadragon]

How so? Can you demonstrate that? What's the model and the evidence?

I actually agree that there is no objective evidence for the existence of the soul. The present knowledge of science has determined that consciousness is directly related to the brain. There is no objective evidence for any other source.

I believe in the soul but do not appeal to science and objective evidence to justify this belief.

 

[icehorse]

It is very unlikely a cognitive scientist would ever do this.

Which part?

 

[shunyadragon]

Which part?

ALL

 

[icehorse]

ALL

Well over the years I've had the good fortune to discuss matters like these with several cognitive scientists, and they have all confirmed my understanding.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well over the years I've had the good fortune to discuss matters like these with several cognitive scientists, and they have all confirmed my understanding.

Please cite them in their literature. Secondhand subjective statements are meaningless. I am a scientist of over fifty years and there are none that I have known and read the research that would make such groundless statements.

I have a thread here on consciousness which has numerous references as to what scientists conclude.

I will be waiting for your references.

 

[icehorse]

Please cite them in their literature. Secondhand subjective statements are meaningless. I am a scientist of over fifty years and there are none that I have known and read the research that would make such groundless statements.

I made several claims and also I speculated. Of course my speculation about "the soul" was just that. Although scientists HAVE made correlations between people who experience "visitations" and certain types of brain activity.

But I made claims concerning the conscious, the ego, and the subconscious. These are broad claims that are not proved with a few citations, but instead are developed by studying broadly. In other words, I might need to list a hundred studies to satisfy you, which of course I won't do.

But perhaps if we narrow things down a bit? So what specifically in my claims do you take issue with?

(And as for bona fides, I've been studying cognitive science and related fields for over 20 years and I have successfully and repeatedly applied the research in real world situations. In other words, I've taken the theories out of the lab, and applied them.)

 

[shunyadragon]

I made several claims and also I speculated. Of course my speculation about "the soul" was just that. Although scientists HAVE made correlations between people who experience "visitations" and certain types of brain activity.

But I made claims concerning the conscious, the ego, and the subconscious. These are broad claims that are not proved with a few citations, but instead are developed by studying broadly. In other words, I might need to list a hundred studies to satisfy you, which of course I won't do.

But perhaps if we narrow things down a bit? So what specifically in my claims do you take issue with?

(And as for bona fides, I've been studying cognitive science and related fields for over 20 years and I have successfully and repeatedly applied the research in real world situations. In other words, I've taken the theories out of the lab, and applied them.)

As far as your percentages they are highly subjective and speculative and not how science views the brain.

A cognitive scientist would not speculate on the soul or this non-scientific statement.

"So it "could" be that the soul is our subconscious. Or some combination of our subconscious and our motor system."

 

[icehorse]

As far as your percentages they are highly subjective and speculative and not how science views the brain.

On several different occasions I have shared this perspective with three different cognitive scientists. Two of them with PhDs from Oxford. They have all said words to the effect: "Well you've simplified things a bit, but for practical purposes, you're not wrong."

As for the soul comment, I think I've already agreed that that was speculation on my part, I even said it in my first comment.

 

[joelr]

How so? Can you demonstrate that? What's the model and the evidence?

Consciousness seems to be dependent on the brain. No evidence in neuroscience points to a soul. There is no evidence of consciousness operating independently of the brain. Just anecdotal reports. When I am put under during a procedure I have no awareness, no dream, I just immediately wake up. The soul seems to be an outdated concept.

 

[Kfox]

What is a soul?
How does a soul interact with the physical world?
How does one's soul relate to consciousness?

Do souls come into existence when a person is born, then go away when the person dies? Or do they always exist. If they always exist, does that mean once all the of souls in existence are assigned to live bodies, no more people can be born till someone dies because there are no more souls to attach to the bodies? Because the world’s population keeps increasing over time, and unless more souls are created there seems there will have to be some limit on the birth rate when population reaches a certain point.