What is Contemplative Christianity?

[Windwalker]

Would that utopian society have been New Harmony, Indiana?

No, Zion, Illinois. I assume you have a relative who ended up in one too?

 

[sojourner]

No, Zion, Illinois. I assume you have a relative who ended up in one too?

No, but we lived close to New Harmony, and I know about that place -- visited, read about it, etc.

 

[InChrist]

And when we quiet ourselves in meditation, we're quieting our fears and the things we constantly battle in our daily lives, in order to know God and to know that God is our life.
What's the problem here?

I spent a number of years in seminary earning my Master's in biblical studies, learning how to exegete the texts. I don't think a web site is going to shed any light on that subject.
I don't see how the various meanings of "be still" is any different from what we do in meditation.
Humanity is in crisis of sin, or separation from God, which imperils the creation. When we are in sin, our world falls apart. Meditation helps the sin to not overcome us.
What you're arguing here is exactly what happens in meditation.

According to the scriptures it is not "meditation" that helps or give the power to overcome sin. It is confessing our sin and trusting in Jesus Christ to cleanse us from all unrighteousness ( 1John 1:8-9) and provide victory over sin ( 1 John 5:1-5; 1 Cor, 15:56-57). I think the problem is that you are attempting to by pass the Savior in favor of your own effort at practicing a technique which appeases your flesh and makes you feel spiritual. By doing so I believe you are open to all kinds of input from the spiritual realm in your search for a mystical experience with God, which may take various forms, but such cannot be from God because He has spoken to us through His Word ( 2 Tim. 3:16-17) and risen Son ( Hebrews 1:1-4) and has never indicated we should connect with Him through the use of mysticism or other religious/spiritual traditions.

 

[sojourner]

I think the problem is that you are attempting to by pass the Savior in favor of your own effort at practicing a technique which appeases your flesh and makes you feel spiritual.

Regrettably, you have no idea what you're talking about here. You have no idea why I do what I do, or how I go about doing it, or what happens when I do it.

According to the scriptures it is not "meditation" that helps or give the power to overcome sin.

If one meditates, one will become closer to God, hence sin of separation is averted. No, meditation doesn't overcome sin. But meditation can and does help empower one. Why? Because Christ is encountered deeply in meditation.

 

[InChrist]

Yes, this is what you have been taught, but Jesus if he ever existed showed the way, that is the way he became enlightened, he was never a god, but an ordinary man, who realized that he was one with the source, or god. But sadly, religion has made a god out of him, putting him up on a pedestal, a pedestal that we could never reach. I say knock Jesus off his pedestal, and bring him to our level, its the only way we ourselves can ever be enlightened.

I don't think it is reasonable to say religion did not "make" a God out of Jesus Christ. Jesus demonstrated by His life, death and resurrection that He is God.

... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil.2;10-11

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

 

[InChrist]

Regrettably, you have no idea what you're talking about here. You have no idea why I do what I do, or how I go about doing it, or what happens when I do it.

I don't mind hearing what you do or how you go about it if you think it will give me understanding and a better idea.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't mind hearing what you do or how you go about it if you think it will give me understanding and a better idea.

Let's start with what you do in prayer. Describe your practice of prayer, from beginning to end.

 

[lovemuffin]

You have explain more about your term "silence"? What it has to do with Jesus to reveal the Father and the word "silence"?
It looks like inserting a term that does not connect.

"The divine prophets themselves lived Christ Jesus’ way. That is why they were persecuted, for they were inspired by his grace to convince unbelievers that God is one, and that he has revealed himself in his Son Jesus Christ, who is his Word issuing from the silence and who won the complete approval of him who sent him."

-- Ignatius of Antioch (~100 C.E), Epistle to the Magnesians​

The above isn't really intended to be an argument, but rather another example that helps ground the assertion that mysticism, and especially a mysticism that uses Silence and Word as primary symbols, is a tradition that goes to the beginning of Christianity. Ignatius is reported to have been a disciple of John the apostle, and was the third bishop of Antioch. Rather than being an "eastern" influence, I think it's fair to say, especially taken alongside the gospel of John and his epistles, that the symbolism of Logos and Silence is very Greek, which is why it is found primarily in the Greek church fathers. Silence came to represent the divine mystery, expressed in the Biblical tradition in the idea that God is invisible, meaning fundamentally unknowable, whose ways are not man's ways, who must be worshipped in Spirit, and etc. In the same way that the N.T. declares Christ to be the icon of the invisible God, who makes manifest and visible the hidden and unknowable God, so Silence is another symbol for that hidden-ness, which is revealed by the Logos. Essentially, this is a very Johannine expression of early Christianity. Cf. John 1:18

 

[Windwalker]

"The divine prophets themselves lived Christ Jesus’ way. That is why they were persecuted, for they were inspired by his grace to convince unbelievers that God is one, and that he has revealed himself in his Son Jesus Christ, who is his Word issuing from the silence and who won the complete approval of him who sent him."

-- Ignatius of Antioch (~100 C.E), Epistle to the Magnesians​

Nice.

The above isn't really intended to be an argument, but rather another example that helps ground the assertion that mysticism, and especially a mysticism that uses Silence and Word as primary symbols, is a tradition that goes to the beginning of Christianity. Ignatius is reported to have been a disciple of John the apostle, and was the third bishop of Antioch. Rather than being an "eastern" influence, I think it's fair to say, especially taken alongside the gospel of John and his epistles, that the symbolism of Logos and Silence is very Greek, which is why it is found primarily in the Greek church fathers.

I'm very glad you are pointing this out and it sparks a thought in my mind to add here, which goes to this whole business of "tied to paganism", or "Eastern influence". There is something flawed about the notion that ideas, or certain realizations that exist in various parts of the world owe their existence to a single point of origin. We tend to think in these terms, such as those seeing similarities in Jesus' teaching with those of India, imagine Jesus traveled to India and picked these up from there. I don't think that has to be the case at all, and that meditation practices owe their origins to Eastern traditions.

As you are pointing out above people can in fact come to the same ways of speaking about the divine through direct experience themselves. A realization of the same thing can occur completely independently of the influence of others, at the same times, and in entirely different parts of the world. That someone having mystical experiences sees and speaks of God as Silence, would owe itself to the fact that this is a common human experience of the divine. It would lend instead an 'independent corroboration'.

Some may choose to object that if a "pagan" (whatever that terms actually means) has an experience of God that sounds similar to what a Christian has, that therefore the Christian experience is a "demonic deception" because it's what a pagan says, is pure foolishness. It ignores the fact that God is manifest to the whole world, and that "That which can be known of God is clearly seen and made manifest, even his eternal power and Godhead", (Ro. 1:20). People the world over are in fact able to see and know God, independent of Preacher Bob and his special version of True Gospel Faith. Jesus said of the Roman centurion that he hadn't seen as great a faith in all of Israel than he had in this pagan! That the modern fundamentalist Christian denies that the Light of God can be known outside of their versions of Truth, is to deny what is in the Bible itself, as well as common sense.

People with a heart and a will to God, to seeking to become one with Source, will in fact discover ways to accomplish this, ways that work, and pitfalls to avoid. It speaks instead to the validity of the methods, that they in fact result in greater depth of spirit and soul in union with the divine, that it brings about the greatest results in overcoming the obstacle of the self-seeking, self-serving ego (sorry, those who imagine otherwise), and that it brings about the greatest and highest realizations of love, compassion, peace, and truth in all of human experience in relation with the Absolute.

Again, why anyone who calls themselves religious should deny and reject the proven best tool to this realization that brings such abundance of spiritual fruit, is beyond any reasonable comprehension. It speaks of some deeper problem which points to some self-serving end that would deny or disallow others something which benefits the entire world itself to the Peace of God through those who practice it. There is something deeply amiss with this objective, something some could even call 'demonic' in that it rejects that Light which shines into the darkness, casting a stumbling block before those seeking God. (Since we have been focused on saying meditation opens one to demonic influence it's fair to point this out from the other side of things).

Silence came to represent the divine mystery, expressed in the Biblical tradition in the idea that God is invisible, meaning fundamentally unknowable, whose ways are not man's ways, who must be worshipped in Spirit, and etc. In the same way that the N.T. declares Christ to be the icon of the invisible God, who makes manifest and visible the hidden and unknowable God, so Silence is another symbol for that hidden-ness, which is revealed by the Logos. Essentially, this is a very Johannine expression of early Christianity. Cf. John 1:18

This is all very good information. John's Gospel is of course my favorite as it speaks of this divine mystery in quite mystical language like this.

 

[Yoshua]

Being quiet in one's mind is a product of being peaceful, yes? IOW: if one is peaceful, one will tend to want to quiet the mind.

Hi Sojourner,

I think it is better if you can describe how to quiet one's mind?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

What do you mean nowhere to be found? Have you ever experienced God? It's a metaphor to describe that Peace. That Peace is stillness, Silence, an absence of turmoil and fear, and so forth. I give it a capital S because it is Absolute in its nature. God is Infinite. Resting in that Infinite is a refuge from the turmoil and fear. It is Silence Supreme. I am allowed to choose whatever words I may to describe my own experience. I could come up with many words. So does anyone who speaks from direct experience.

Hi Windwalker,

I thought you would give me a text supporting that God is Silence as in "God is spirit" in John 4:24. Jesus uttered "Peace be with you." Experience should be validated with the Scriptures, if we fail to do so, then, indeed you put anything inside your experience and come up with many words you like.

If you are buying a product (medicine) and you've been partaking that meds for your health maintenance, are you checking its expiration date and the meds that was given to you? I believe every person should do this to assure that the meds is safe for your consumption.

This is the same with your experience, you may experience a lot of spiritual things, but by not checking it with the Scripture (meds expiry/product), you may got the wrong meds for your spiritual.

Thanks

 

[psychoslice]

I don't think it is reasonable to say religion did not "make" a God out of Jesus Christ. Jesus demonstrated by His life, death and resurrection that He is God.

... that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil.2;10-11

But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

He wasn't God, he declared God, he pointed to God, many of the stories are metaphors, don't get caught up in the literal, or you will miss the whole point of the stories.

 

[Yoshua]

I sit quietly, breathe deeply, and listen with intention.

Hi Sojourner,

Therefore I don’t do that. Your meditation is similar with the Buddhist. I think your kind of meditation includes some counting and phasing if I’m not mistaken.

Can I "prove" what with scripture?

So that would mean your standard is not the Scripture. By the way, as a follower of Christ, we don’t follow the ways of man outside the written word of God.

Do you have a working knowledge of Hebrew?
In what sense is a person who is sitting quietly not "relaxed?"

Not really. I just know how to do research and do exegete text as sourcing the original text. I know that you have a Masteral in biblical studies, but I just quite surprise why it seemed that you fail to prioritize the biblical text first before application procedure.

Strong's #7503: raphah (pronounced raw-faw')


a primitive root; to slacken (in many applications, literal or figurative):--abate, cease, consume, draw (toward evening), fail, (be) faint, be (wax) feeble, forsake, idle, leave, let alone (go, down), (be) slack, stay, be still, be slothful, (be) weak(-en). See 7495.


Psalms 37:8: " Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise"
Psalms 46:10: " Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted"
Psalms 138:8: "me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth forever: forsake not the works of thine own hands."(bibletools.org)

God did not say you should be sitting quietly and meditate in Ps. 46:10; He is not instructing you how to meditate. He is saying this “10. ``Stand silent! Know that I am God! I will be honored by every nation in the world!''(LVB) Even though in Living Version used the word “silent,” it does not connect the context of meditating as in breathing in prayer. Still, the meaning will fall on the original text of the word “raphah.”

The Hebrew texts have no concept for Holy Spirit in the NT sense you mean here.

Yes I know, that is why I indicated the word “promised.”

Riiiight, and how do we hear that "sigh" that is "too deep for words" and connect with it? By being still and listening for it.

Hmmm. We have connected in this section and you still focusing by inserting “Be still” again. I think this is not going to breathing, it says the Spirit pray for us, and it did not say that we should utter that “sighs” and produce words.

God is God. There is no "mine" or "yours."

Can you cite your statement of faith, please so I may know your faith and position?

If you have encountered God, then, yes, it's the same thing. If you have to ask "how do you know when you've encountered God," then you haven't encountered God, because when you encounter God, there's no guesswork left.

It is too early to conclude that your and mine has totally identical in encountering God. I don’t think so.

"Deeply," as in, "wholly."

I prefer more detailed explanation from you rather than short phrase.

Why? Why is the "evangelical practice" different? Why is there no continuity on the part of evangelicals with the rest of the Body of Christ? Don't you find that ... weird that evangelicals are not "in one accord" with the rest of the saints?

Please don’t include us first with our practice of contemplating than yours. Evangelical adheres and followed the biblical practice of contemplative. To prove that we are one in accord with the saints in contemplating, I think this is another topic to start with. If we both have the same contemplative, then I would have not started this thread.

Why? Do you not see Christ in them?

Those are humans like us. They are not perfect like Jesus. To be sure, it is better to look for Jesus.
Heb.12:2
2. looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

So, meditating to seek Christ is "using our own means," but reading the bible (written by people and published by people) is not "using our own means?"

Check your phrase “finding our True Self and Higher Self.” Just keep in mind that your way & my way of meditating are not the same. Did Jesus teach us about finding our true self or higher self? Or He is teaching us to find (seek) Him?

Meditation isn't "diverting" our minds; it's "focusing" our minds.

Yes you focused your mind to what?

Meditation, then, is prayer.

Meditation is not only in prayer, but praising him, and reading His word by guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Hmmm. The bible tells us that Jesus is in our form, is one of us, is like us in every way.

Yes, he is the form of a servant to do the Father’s will of redeeming us from our sins and give us hope of eternal life.

How do you listen for anyone, or anything? By being fully present in the moment. That's what meditation does; brings you fully into the moment quietly so you can hear that "still, small voice."

Then how would you know that small voice is the Holy Spirit’s voice? What is your assurance?

Sooo... what? We should hold our breath?

I think you are neglecting your knowledge on biblical studies here on this portion about Prayer. If Jesus did not taught us “breathe prayer,” why invent a “breathe prayer” then who told you to do the breathe prayer?
I don’t say that we stop breathing when praying

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

"The divine prophets themselves lived Christ Jesus’ way. That is why they were persecuted, for they were inspired by his grace to convince unbelievers that God is one, and that he has revealed himself in his Son Jesus Christ, who is his Word issuing from the silence and who won the complete approval of him who sent him."

-- Ignatius of Antioch (~100 C.E), Epistle to the Magnesians
The above isn't really intended to be an argument, but rather another example that helps ground the assertion that mysticism, and especially a mysticism that uses Silence and Word as primary symbols, is a tradition that goes to the beginning of Christianity. Ignatius is reported to have been a disciple of John the apostle, and was the third bishop of Antioch. Rather than being an "eastern" influence, I think it's fair to say, especially taken alongside the gospel of John and his epistles, that the symbolism of Logos and Silence is very Greek, which is why it is found primarily in the Greek church fathers. Silence came to represent the divine mystery, expressed in the Biblical tradition in the idea that God is invisible, meaning fundamentally unknowable, whose ways are not man's ways, who must be worshipped in Spirit, and etc. In the same way that the N.T. declares Christ to be the icon of the invisible God, who makes manifest and visible the hidden and unknowable God, so Silence is another symbol for that hidden-ness, which is revealed by the Logos. Essentially, this is a very Johannine expression of early Christianity. Cf. John 1:18

Hi wellnamed,

I know Ignatius of Antioch. Ignatius warned against false doctrines. How would you reconcile the contemplative practices of meditation and the word “silence” in the practices of Ignatius of Antioch?

Chapter I.-Reason of Writing the Epistle.

Having been informed of your godly love, so well-ordered, I rejoiced greatly, and determined to commune with you in the faith of Jesus Christ. For as one who has been thought worthy of the most honourable of all names, in those bonds which I bear about, I commend the Churches, in which I pray for a union both of the flesh and spirit of Jesus Christ, the constant source of our life, and of faith and love, to which nothing is to be preferred, but especially of Jesus and the Father, in whom, if we endure all the assaults of the prince of this world, and escape them, we shall enjoy God.


Having been informed of your godly love, so well-ordered, I rejoiced greatly, and determined to commune with you in the faith of Jesus Christ. For as one who has been thought worthy of a divine and desirable name, in those bonds which I bear about, I commend the Churches, in which I pray for a union both of the flesh and spirit of Jesus Christ, "who is the Saviour of all men, but specially of them that believe; " by whose blood ye were redeemed; by whom ye have known God, or rather have been known by Him; in whom enduring, ye shall escape all the assaults of this world: for "He is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which ye are able."


Chapter VIII.-Caution Against False Doctrines.


Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Christ Jesus. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by His grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased Him that sent Him.


Be not deceived with strange doctrines, "nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies," and things in which the Jews make their boast. "Old things are passed away: behold, all things have become new." For if we still live according to the Jewish law, and the circumcision of the flesh, we deny that we have received grace. For the divinest prophets lived according to Jesus Christ. On this account also they were persecuted, being inspired by grace to fully convince the unbelieving that there is one God, the Almighty, who has manifested Himself by Jesus Christ His Son, who is His Word, not spoken, but essential. For He is not the voice of an articulate utterance, but a substance begotten by divine power, who has in all things pleased Him that sent Him.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Oh this is easy. I've tried to explain this many times before. You can in fact suppress the Spirit. You can deny it. You can "grieve" it, as Paul says. When meditation does it helps you learn how to allow God, to allow the Spirit, for you to hear Spirit, to be sensitive to it, and so forth. It trains you how to see it, recognize it, and how to allow God who is in you to become manifest in you. And the result of this is that very transformation from glory to glory into the image of Christ, to where you become Christ in the world. Christ in you. This is in fact what surrender is. It is dying to your own egoic self-seeking, to seek for God in all things. "I die daily", says Paul. You have to allow God. Don't think for one second you can't suppress it. Spiritual growth is a process. It requires you to do something on your part, and that is learning how to cooperate, to get out of the way, and to allow what is within to transform you. Meditation is the most powerful tool towards that end that exists.

Hi Windwalker,

I did not get a direct answer from my question. You are introducing your way and insights about (your) contemplative. Why you need to quiet your mind? Is it God requiring you or the Scripture is requiring you do that?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Ah, here comes that conversation. The same things can be understood in multiple ways, which ties into my previous post. It depends on which framework of reference, or symbolic language set someone is using. Some will understand bodily sickness as the result of spiritual warfare, being "afflicted", by a demon or something. In reality it's just a way to talk about it using a mythological framework, one of external forces, magical spirits in the world surrounding us, influencing us, attacking us, etc. Within a rational, modern, scientific-oriented framework these are understood as things such as viruses that attack the body, or mental ailments which affect the mind. "Demonic possession" as once understood as something 'supernatural' and beyond our understanding and control, are understood in a modern framework of understanding as psychiatric disorders.

The mind, especially the subconscious and unconscious mind are 'dark and mysterious places' to us. It is the place of nonverbal, or preverbal mind. That mind is constantly aware of the world around it, feeding up to the conscious mind 'impressions' or images as well. It influences us in our conscious mind in ways we truly do not understand. When I speak about going within in meditation, there are many layers of things going on here. One of which is opening directly to the subconscious mind. This is what is done in psychotherapy with the guidance of a therapist. You will uncover deep, scarey things you have tucked away down there because they were perceived as some point as threatening to you. So as you open that door, you many encounter one of these scarcely monsters under the bed. And their faces can in fact be "demonic" in appearance.

So can those be called "demons"? Sure. Are they supernatural beings outside of us? They are perceived that way by the mind at a certain point of view, but not another. One can relate to them symbolically however one chooses, but the end hope and result is the same. You wish to be freed from the threat of them, right?

When I hear people express misgivings about meditation because it "opens them to demonic possession", what I hear is in fact this either intuitive fear of going within, beyond the barriers of all our self-defense we have constructed to keep those monsters under lock and key, or those who have opened that door and seen those shadows rear their monstrous faces out of the dark at them and caused them to become absolutely terrified, as they were unprepared for such a confrontation. What they fear is this. This "demonic possession" is the fear of losing their own minds! That is what it is. So in a sense, they are correct, albeight using a mythological set of symbols to talk about it with. Then in a rational context, a modern framework of language, that concern can be restated thusly, "Meditation could open you to a psychic break where you become insane.". That is the actual concern being expressed.

Hopefully this makes some sense to you, but I also wanted to talk about this a bit previously for the benefit of others reading who find this talk of demon possession to be too mythological. Meditation is in fact dealing with the mind, and there are pitfalls to be wary of, but also enormous benefits both psychologically and subsequently spiritually. I believe we have to heal the mind, deal with that junk we've repressed and denied in the subconscious in order to move forward spiritually. For sake of discussion, I respond using the language of myth to express these self-same things.

I can go much, much deeper than this, and yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

Hi Windwalker,

With respect to your long explanation and defining things about possession and psychological, what I understand from you—is you believe in demonic activity, and can be in psychological and thinking. Now, can you enumerate what is demonic from you and not demonic—in Christian practice? (or what makes a Christian practice demonic in nature and not demonic). May I suggest that you tabulate it like this one (below), and if you will write it in narrative form, please underline your answer.

Demonic:
1.)
2.)
Non-demonic:
1.)
2.)

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

Hi Sojourner,

I think it is better if you can describe how to quiet one's mind?

Thanks

Jeez! How many times do we have to spell it out? You do it through deep concentration upon a single thought (that's one method). Or through imagery of some kind.

 

[Windwalker]

Experience should be validated with the Scriptures

Chapter and verse, please, as they say?

Let's be realistic here for a few minutes, as well as point out the absurdity of this supposed litmus test of all truth. First off, validate with scripture according to whose interpretation of scripture? Oops. Down goes that house of cards at the outset. There is no way possible for scripture to be taken as an absolute, as no one reading it has an absolute interpretation.

I started a thread on this some time back you may wish to read through and get back to me again with this claim above that you need to "validate" experience with scripture. In reality, you should actually validate scripture with experience! But when you have experience, then how you understand scripture will in fact reflect that, just as how without experience how you read scripture demonstrates a lack of awareness currently. I will listen to someone's understanding of scripture coming from a place of experience with a greater consideration, way before listening to someone who has no experience whatsoever, as is clearly speaking in only the theoretical, not actual firsthand knowledge validated by experience. If someone with no experience claims something from scripture that violates experience directly, than that interpretation is suspect. Experience gives anyone insights into these things beyond those who have none. http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/the-impossibility-of-scriptural-authority.173975/

if we fail to do so, then, indeed you put anything inside your experience and come up with many words you like.

I'm all for validation. But it has to be validation with those who have actual experience, versus those who are clueless. It's like asking someone who has never looked through a telescope to validate what you saw looking through one, without them actually looking through it! All that person without experience has to go on is speculation, not experience. So validate it with scripture is all good and fine, to a point. But it has to be with someone who is qualified, someone who has the actual experience in order to help their own understanding of these things. Someone not looking through the telescope themselves, is not qualified to make a pronouncement on the findings of those who do the actual experiment, regardless of how many books of science they have read and the knowledge of astronomy they think they have. End of story.

In other words, the mere theologian, those with head knowledge only become out-contextualized by those who use the greater tools of inquiry, such as the telescope versus just speculative science using logic arguments only. Meditation practice is the same as using a telescope to look through into the heavens with the eye of Spirit, versus the eye of mind alone. Then, from the advantage of seeing with the eye of Spirit, the eye of mind now becomes informed by this knowledge, and how the eye of mind sees becomes "illuminated" by that Light. Without that Light, it's just "all in the head", as they say.

If you are buying a product (medicine) and you've been partaking that meds for your health maintenance, are you checking its expiration date and the meds that was given to you? I believe every person should do this to assure that the meds is safe for your consumption.

Exactly. You first have to rely on the experience of the medical professional to tell you what works and what doesn't. Not those who have no experience as a practicing physician telling you what pills you should take. Then you need to validate with those medical professionals, those who actually practice medicine, that you are in fact following the prescription correctly, then have regular checkups to check on the effectiveness of the drug, the dosage prescribed, and the frequency of use. In other words, you should only be going to a practicing physician with experience, not some hack who found a medical book on the street and believes he is now a qualified professional because he read about medicine and memorized all the drug names. Or, because a religious person read "about" God. You need to speak with those who have experience with God as well. They are the ones who have greater insights and can speak with greater authority. Their experience always gives them greater insight into "what is written".

This is the same with your experience, you may experience a lot of spiritual things, but by not checking it with the Scripture (meds expiry/product), you may got the wrong meds for your spiritual.

You need to have a measure of the effectiveness of the practice, or the medicine you are taking. Here is that measure of effectiveness I have cited from post one: "By their fruits you shall know them." "[And] the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." "An evil tree cannot bear good fruit". And so forth. If the medicine you are taking is producing these, then it is the correct prescription. If it is not, then it is either the wrong prescription, you need a different prescription, a different dosage, or you need to find a better doctor.

 

[sojourner]

Therefore I don’t do that. Your meditation is similar with the Buddhist. I think your kind of meditation includes some counting and phasing if I’m not mistaken.

Never counting. Never "phrasing," unless it's the Jesus prayer.

So that would mean your standard is not the Scripture.

Scripture, Tradition and reason are my standards.

By the way, as a follower of Christ, we don’t follow the ways of man outside the written word of God.

The disciples followed Jesus, who was a man. He told them to work on the Sabbath. He told them that their neighbor was one outside their kin-group.

Not really. I just know how to do research and do exegete text as sourcing the original text.

Not very thoroughly, apparently.

I know that you have a Masteral in biblical studies, but I just quite surprise why it seemed that you fail to prioritize the biblical text first before application procedure.

I do prioritize the texts. But exegesis also informs us that the texts are part of, and a product of the whole Tradition -- not particularly the informer of Tradition. Had you adequately exegeted the texts, you would realize this and not be surprised by my approach.

God did not say you should be sitting quietly and meditate in Ps. 46:10; He is not instructing you how to meditate. He is saying this “10. ``Stand silent! Know that I am God! I will be honored by every nation in the world!''(LVB) Even though in Living Version used the word “silent,” it does not connect the context of meditating as in breathing in prayer. Still, the meaning will fall on the original text of the word “raphah.”

One "raphahs" by taking deep breaths and quieting the mind.

Yes I know, that is why I indicated the word “promised.”

The Hebrew texts cannot promise what they do not conceive. It's usually a huge exegetical mistake to form an apology for the Greek texts with the Hebrew texts.

Hmmm. We have connected in this section and you still focusing by inserting “Be still” again. I think this is not going to breathing, it says the Spirit pray for us, and it did not say that we should utter that “sighs” and produce words.

So, we're not to mirror the acts of the Holy Spirit within us. Does that also mean we're not supposed to mirror what Jesus does as an example for us?

Can you cite your statement of faith, please so I may know your faith and position?

Read the Nicene and Apostles' Creed.

It is too early to conclude that your and mine has totally identical in encountering God. I don’t think so.

Try rephrasing, or checking your typing. This doesn't make grammatical sense.

Evangelical adheres and followed the biblical practice of contemplative.

No. They generally don't. At least, not by doing it the way you've described it.

If we both have the same contemplative, then I would have not started this thread.

The meditative practices we've described are the way the Desert Fathers practiced, and they're the way the ancient church down to the present day has practiced. If you're doing it differently, then you aren't in accord with the ancient church.

Those are humans like us. They are not perfect like Jesus. To be sure, it is better to look for Jesus.

"When you did it one of the least of these, my brethren, you did it to me."

Check your phrase “finding our True Self and Higher Self.” Just keep in mind that your way & my way of meditating are not the same. Did Jesus teach us about finding our true self or higher self? Or He is teaching us to find (seek) Him?

Jesus taught to do both. Christ-within-us is (biblically speaking) who we really are.

Yes you focused your mind to what?

The intention at hand -- just as in spoken prayer.

Meditation is not only in prayer, but praising him, and reading His word by guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Meditative prayer is one type of prayer.