What is Contemplative Christianity?

[sassysam29]

I thought it was interesting, because I hadn't heard it explained this way before.

Sojourner, our indoctrination is indeed different, but make no mistake about it, you yourself have also been indoctrinated. It is just a fact...like it or not, we have all been heavily influenced by someone be it a pastor, a professor, a phychiatrist, an author and even worse, some of us have been absolutely corrupted by the teachings of Christ. be careful with those arrows your shooting because in doing so, you become what you accuse others of being/doing.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I think you quoted the wrong person sassysam29. I'll do an at for you both: @sassysam29 @sojourner

 

[Windwalker]

I thought it was interesting, because I hadn't heard it explained this way before.

I think he's saying that even in the most open, easy analogy, those who have been thoroughly indoctrinated in a marinade of fear and misinformation, won't be able to hear anything that is said.

 

[Windwalker]

Sojourner, our indoctrination is indeed different, but make no mistake about it, you yourself have also been indoctrinated. It is just a fact...like it or not, we have all been heavily influenced by someone be it a pastor, a professor, a phychiatrist, an author and even worse, some of us have been absolutely corrupted by the teachings of Christ. be careful with those arrows your shooting because in doing so, you become what you accuse others of being/doing.

I think the context he was speaking of is the pejorative use of the term indoctrination. From Wiki:

Some distinguish indoctrination from education, claiming that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively or as a buzz word, often in the context of political opinions, theology, religious dogma or anti-religious convictions. The term is closely linked to socialization; however, in common discourse, indoctrination is sometimes associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.
​

I certainly do not take what I am hearing being taught to others as "meditation" to be anything that has be critically examined or qualifies as any sort of legitimate education whatsoever on the topic. There is tons of information out there, scientific research to boot. But instead what is being suggested is just parroting ill-founded, purely speculative fear mongering stated as fact, again and again, with all evidence to the contrary ignored. Trying to counter indoctrination of uninformed rhetoric with actual data and reason is like beating your head against the wall.

 

[sassysam29]

I think the context he was speaking of is the pejorative use of the term indoctrination. From Wiki:

Some distinguish indoctrination from education, claiming that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively or as a buzz word, often in the context of political opinions, theology, religious dogma or anti-religious convictions. The term is closely linked to socialization; however, in common discourse, indoctrination is sometimes associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.
​

I certainly do not take what I am hearing being taught to others as "meditation" to be anything that has be critically examined or qualifies as any sort of legitimate education whatsoever on the topic. There is tons of information out there, scientific research to boot. But instead what is being suggested is just parroting ill-founded, purely speculative fear mongering stated as fact, again and again, with all evidence to the contrary ignored. Trying to counter indoctrination of uninformed rhetoric with actual data and reason is like beating your head against the wall.

So, It's a a negative connatation all wrapped up in pretty paper [emoji108]

 

[Unification]

I had this analogy come to me this morning as I meditated. Think of this stilling of the mind like that of a mother holding the hand of a troubled child. As the child sits and stews, fussing and worrying his mind over this or that that troubles him, his mother reaches out and touches his hand. Suddenly the child is calmed, because his focus has turned from his mind, his troubled thoughts, to the love and presence and assurance of his mother that all is well. It is in simple trust of that love, that the child lets go and his thought 'empties' into that of his mother's love and assurance. As he does this, he breathing slows, his body relaxes, his mind stills.

This is meditation practice. It's no more "hocus-pocus" than what we all do with our minds in common things. The only difference is that it is a deliberate practicing this calming of the mind in a disciplined practice, rather than going through our lives flaying around hoping to find moments of peace through this or that distraction. As we practice this placing of the mind into a state of silent "trust", as it were, we soon learn that the rest of what goes on in the mind is none other than what we do to ourselves through giving into the thoughts as the truth of reality itself. It's all an illusion of the mind, things we tell ourselves to be true, believe in them, and then respond to them emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually. All that meditation does is teach you to "be still, and know that I am the Lord". It is to learn to rest in Spirit itself as our Center, and our Ground, rather than simply learning to cope with the illusion of the mind and its storylines it creates for us.

How, and why, anyone objects to this, is beyond comprehension. Do they fear letting go of all of that garbage we swim in as we trying to keep our nose above water? Meditation teaches you, shows you, makes it apparent, you can actually stand up in that stream and step out of it, walk on water, as it were. "Peace, be still", Jesus said to the raging seas.

Well said, friend. Wonderful stuff. I love the deep meaning beneath the surface.

 

[Unification]

I had this analogy come to me this morning as I meditated. Think of this stilling of the mind like that of a mother holding the hand of a troubled child. As the child sits and stews, fussing and worrying his mind over this or that that troubles him, his mother reaches out and touches his hand. Suddenly the child is calmed, because his focus has turned from his mind, his troubled thoughts, to the love and presence and assurance of his mother that all is well. It is in simple trust of that love, that the child lets go and his thought 'empties' into that of his mother's love and assurance. As he does this, he breathing slows, his body relaxes, his mind stills.

This is meditation practice. It's no more "hocus-pocus" than what we all do with our minds in common things. The only difference is that it is a deliberate practicing this calming of the mind in a disciplined practice, rather than going through our lives flaying around hoping to find moments of peace through this or that distraction. As we practice this placing of the mind into a state of silent "trust", as it were, we soon learn that the rest of what goes on in the mind is none other than what we do to ourselves through giving into the thoughts as the truth of reality itself. It's all an illusion of the mind, things we tell ourselves to be true, believe in them, and then respond to them emotionally, psychologically, and spiritually. All that meditation does is teach you to "be still, and know that I am the Lord". It is to learn to rest in Spirit itself as our Center, and our Ground, rather than simply learning to cope with the illusion of the mind and its storylines it creates for us.

How, and why, anyone objects to this, is beyond comprehension. Do they fear letting go of all of that garbage we swim in as we trying to keep our nose above water? Meditation teaches you, shows you, makes it apparent, you can actually stand up in that stream and step out of it, walk on water, as it were. "Peace, be still", Jesus said to the raging seas.

Many fear letting go, what others may think, neurological pain comes with an alteration of mind and change. We always try to hold on, we want to be in control of the ship. The other side of the sea is beautiful. The truth sets one free. Face value of texts is good enough for many. To dwell in the spirit of the texts deep beneath the surface, is a sensation of bliss. . The real experience within.

 

[sassysam29]

I think you quoted the wrong person sassysam29. I'll do an at for you both: @sassysam29 @sojourner

Sorry....thanks [emoji4]

 

[Yoshua]

Do you know your friends or your spouse personally by reading about them? Or do you know them personally by interacting with them and listening to them?

What should be the way of owing Jesus personally and intimately? If you are courting your wife before, I believe you should know her personally by interacting and listening, and that is true. How would you know Jesus personally if you did not even read or listen to the preaching of the Word. I'm not limiting a person by just reading the Bible, what I'm emphasizing here is the essence, the relevance of God's Word. You may hear it form your church, friends, counselor and pastors. Intensifying your faith is by listening to the Word of God. The printed Word of God (Bible) served as the source of Truth. Studying His word is not just solely by experience, this may come as we continue to walk in faith.

Rom. 10:17
17. So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

I don't see any reason why believers in contemplative hindered themselves/or afraid to dwell deeply in the Word of Truth. Who's pulling them away?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

I agree that Christians who are not in fellowship with (won't put up with) others cannot claim to be living in truth, but that nobody should claim to interpret truth for another.

Hi Brick,

Nice meeting you again.

What is truth to you if nobody should claim or share the truth to other people?

Thanks

 

[Windwalker]

I don't see any reason why believers in contemplative hindered themselves/or afraid to dwell deeply in the Word of Truth. Who's pulling them away?

Again, what in the name of Zeus are you talking about, and about whom? Certainly no one in this discussion. Please, tune in your listening dial closely. We're broadcasting on a different channel you can't quite hear, apparently. Stawman, once again, lies again.

 

[sojourner]

I thought it was interesting, because I hadn't heard it explained this way before.

Unfortunately, not everyone finds it interesting.

 

[sojourner]

Sojourner, our indoctrination is indeed different, but make no mistake about it, you yourself have also been indoctrinated. It is just a fact...like it or not, we have all been heavily influenced by someone be it a pastor, a professor, a phychiatrist, an author and even worse, some of us have been absolutely corrupted by the teachings of Christ. be careful with those arrows your shooting because in doing so, you become what you accuse others of being/doing.

I said "indoctrination without understanding." There's an awful lot of closed-mindedness and misinformation flying around here.

 

[sojourner]

I think he's saying that even in the most open, easy analogy, those who have been thoroughly indoctrinated in a marinade of fear and misinformation, won't be able to hear anything that is said.

Correct.

 

[sojourner]

I think the context he was speaking of is the pejorative use of the term indoctrination. From Wiki:

Some distinguish indoctrination from education, claiming that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such the term may be used pejoratively or as a buzz word, often in the context of political opinions, theology, religious dogma or anti-religious convictions. The term is closely linked to socialization; however, in common discourse, indoctrination is sometimes associated with negative connotations, while socialization refers to cultural or educational learning.
​

I certainly do not take what I am hearing being taught to others as "meditation" to be anything that has be critically examined or qualifies as any sort of legitimate education whatsoever on the topic. There is tons of information out there, scientific research to boot. But instead what is being suggested is just parroting ill-founded, purely speculative fear mongering stated as fact, again and again, with all evidence to the contrary ignored. Trying to counter indoctrination of uninformed rhetoric with actual data and reason is like beating your head against the wall.

^^^This^^^

 

[sojourner]

So, It's a a negative connatation all wrapped up in pretty paper [emoji108]

It's a negative connotation, because the responses have been, largely, negative, based on misinformation and an apparent willfulness to not come to an understanding.
It's in pretty paper, because I'm attempting to be tactful. It was a negative statement wrapped up in pretty paper, because I get so tired and so discouraged with self-appointed "prophets" and "experts" who are fellow Christians, condemning something that has been and continues to be very, very precious to me, and crucial to my spiritual formation.

 

[Windwalker]

Data and facts on its way to counter fearful ignorance:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/feeling-it/201309/20-scientific-reasons-start-meditating-today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/meditation-heals-body-and-mind

https://www.headspace.com/science

http://www.medicaldaily.com/mental-...er-your-brains-grey-matter-and-improve-319298

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...duces-stress-it-literally-changes-your-brain/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...a-scientists-find-proof-of-meditation-benefit


Ok, where is the study that show demon possession is a side effect of meditation?????? Come on, where is it? None? Ok. None.

Now, again, there should be hundreds of thousands of really messed up people with heads spinning around in circles, or offering goat sacrifices to their dark lord Satan or something with all this meditation going on. But instead, you see, scientifically verified reductions in stress, better relationships, more creativity, greater empathy and compassion, and all those wonderful fruits of the spirit the Bible lists! Wow. I think one answer only can suffice to explain why people ignore overwhelming evidence, and the words of those members here who themselves practice this. FEAR. Just plain, simple ignorant FEAR.

 

[sojourner]

What should be the way of owing Jesus personally and intimately?

By building an interior relationship with him through silence, meditation, and the interior spiritual work of getting out of one's own way.

How would you know Jesus personally if you did not even read or listen to the preaching of the Word.

Again, by coming to know the Jesus at your sacred center.

You may hear it form your church, friends, counselor and pastors. Intensifying your faith is by listening to the Word of God.

The Word isn't only encountered in the written texts, as I've been saying.

The printed Word of God (Bible) served as the source of Truth.

No, it serves as a source of the Tradition, but it is only understood through a subjective lens. Therefore, it is a truth -- not the truth.

Studying His word is not just solely by experience, this may come as we continue to walk in faith.

You have it backward.

So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

And we hear by being quiet and listening to the heart of God beating within our own hearts.

I don't see any reason why believers in contemplative hindered themselves/or afraid to dwell deeply in the Word of Truth. Who's pulling them away?

Nobody's hindering anything. Contemplation is about enabling. Contemplation fosters a deeper understanding of the Word. Therefore, I conclude that you simply don't know what you're arguing here.

 

[sojourner]

Data and facts on its way to counter fearful ignorance:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/feeling-it/201309/20-scientific-reasons-start-meditating-today

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/features/meditation-heals-body-and-mind

https://www.headspace.com/science

http://www.medicaldaily.com/mental-...er-your-brains-grey-matter-and-improve-319298

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...duces-stress-it-literally-changes-your-brain/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...a-scientists-find-proof-of-meditation-benefit


Ok, where is the study that show demon possession is a side effect of meditation?????? Come on, where is it?

Be prepared for the onslaught of biased, fundamentalist, uninformed spam sites.

 

[sassysam29]

It's a negative connotation, because the responses have been, largely, negative, based on misinformation and an apparent willfulness to not come to an understanding.
It's in pretty paper, because I'm attempting to be tactful. It was a negative statement wrapped up in pretty paper, because I get so tired and so discouraged with self-appointed "prophets" and "experts" who are fellow Christians, condemning something that has been and continues to be very, very precious to me, and crucial to my spiritual formation.

Thank you for your honesty! But remember we all feel the same way from our own perspectives.