What is Contemplative Christianity?

[Windwalker]

So anyway, what's a good way to find out how contemplative prayer is done? The link in the opening post was http://www.contemplativeoutreach.org/christian-contemplative-tradition
It has some training courses and workshops mentioned, etc. What sort of background is required for centering prayer? Do you need to be baptized first? Do you need a catechism class first?

No, of course not. I am of the mind an understanding of what you are doing is important, and then there are actual techniques and practices that one can utilize. I think a good book, one which @Vouthon first recommended to me to read is Into the Silent Land. It offers various understandings of practices, as well as the overview historically and the principles of why it is so effective and what it will do for you. Other books from the Christian perspective on meditation I'd recommend would be Cynthia Bourgeault's Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening. I very much relate to her insights and her spiritual depth. And of course, Thomas Keating, Introduction to Centering Prayer. Beyond this of course, you may explore the Eastern approaches as well if you like to actually understand their approaches and techniques to further your knowledge. Contrary to uniformed opinion, they do not open you to Satanic possession.

 

[Windwalker]

The prophetic nature alone screams for acknowlement of the signature of God. Of course men were the instruments He used to write, translate and preserve His message to us. I cannot understand how a God you claim created the universe is not capable of the process of preservation

This is purely a logic argument that starts with an unsupported premise. It superimposes magic into what otherwise evidence shows clearly contradicts that assumption cannot be correct. There is nothing in scripture that says God will make sure that all the texts will remain pure and spotless as the winter snow.

Why not just view scripture as open to interpretation, and that the point of it is not to find out facts, but to inspire different understandings from the heart that inspire good in the world? That, is in fact consistent with the facts that scriptures are in fact imperfect in their transmission, translations, and understandings. Isn't that easier than trying to force-fit a view you have with the actual evidence, or ignore the evidence to hang onto your view at the expense of understanding?

 

[Unification]

Hi Unification,

Ministers of a New Covenant
1. Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you?
2. You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men;
3. being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts.
4. And such confidence we have through Christ toward God.
5. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God,
6. who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
8. how shall the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

I posted these Scriptures to show to the readers that I'm not just babbling my message without understanding the context. I believed this is not in favor with the contemplative teachings followers. Yes, the quote of "The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" is a very nice to hear because this is emphasizing the Holy Spirit who is the "Spirit of Truth." As we ponder and look at the Scriptures, this is projecting and comparing with the Old Testament law (letters- Moses) and the New Testament (Spirit-Christ). For the letter (law) consist of laws about moral, ceremonial, civil... that a man should followed while the Spirit (Gospel) penetrates our heart & soul and bring us to the grace of God; a faith that saves. This is the covenant of grace composed of Jesus Christ's teaching.

Paul said in Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Jesus is looking at the heart of man rather than our works. I believed He is waiting people to come to Him by believing, accepting, obeying, repenting, trust, surrendering our life, submission, and commitment to Him. The Spirit gives life because He guides and convicts a believer to walk in the path of righteousness.

Role of the Spirit
John 14:16-17
16. "And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17. that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.

Therefore, Paul letters' and Jesus teachings' are infallible; if they are not infallible and the absolute Word of God, mentioning "but of the Spirit; for the letter kills,but the Spirit gives life" is futile and not worthy. We will just based on our own instinct, and by own interpretation without a basis. Paul and Jesus' word will become meaningless.


2 Tim. 3:16-17
16. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
17. that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Heb. 4:12
12. For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

The Word of God is infallible because it is said so as inspired by God.
1 Peter 1:25
25. But the word of the Lord abides forever." And this is the word which was preached to you.

1 Thess. 2:13
13. And for this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received from us the word of God's message, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe.

Thanks

May I add that the two tablets may be the two spheres of the brain and the two sides of the heart. Not written with ink, but written within by Spirit.

A book cannot discipher our thoughts and intentions, something more alive and active does. A force within. That performs it's work.

The word of God comes in all forms through thoughts, inspirations, dreams, sensation revealed as wisdom, knowledge, truth, etc in the minds and hearts in different ways to all of mankind. It rains on the just and unjust. It is infallible.

Scripture is scripture. The word of God is the word of God. We can receive literal, mainstream, and fundamental scripture or we can listen and feel within. There are many who hold mainstream and fundamental doctrine, but have hearts and minds of internal gold. In the end, it's all about the intent of the heart, and purity. For the few who become fools for "God," knowing/experiencing the spirit beneath the scripture, maybe we'll make some more wise with good intent.

Many say that Yah means to breathe in, and Weh means to breathe out, the breath of life. To be. Being. Spirit.

Many things were changed in order for a more fundamental, literal, historical, mainstream meaning. Thankfully, the truth cannot be destroyed and it's the Spirit within the mind and heart that teaches and trains.

Nazareth means place of the skull.
Galilee means circle, circuit, energy, life force.

The center of God, breath of life, mind/heart energy is within.

I have nothing against scripture, there is so much beauty beneath the mainstream, redundant face value and is enriched with deep levels of consciousness, truth, wisdom, and knowledge. No matter what has been added, subtracted, changed, poorly translated... The truth deep beneath the surface remains the same and the Spirit within teaches.

 

[sassysam29]

This is purely a logic argument that starts with an unsupported premise. It superimposes magic into what otherwise evidence shows clearly contradicts that assumption cannot be correct. There is nothing in scripture that says God will make sure that all the texts will remain pure and spotless as the winter snow.

Why not just view scripture as open to interpretation, and that the point of it is not to find out facts, but to inspire different understandings from the heart that inspire good in the world? That, is in fact consistent with the facts that scriptures are in fact imperfect in their transmission, translations, and understandings. Isn't that easier than trying to force-fit a view you have with the actual evidence, or ignore the evidence to hang onto your view at the expense of understanding?

Does God "magically" speak to you through meditation? It's not magic, it's supernatural divineness that cannot be contained or confined to logic.

 

[sassysam29]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God

 

[sassysam29]

This is purely a logic argument that starts with an unsupported premise. It superimposes magic into what otherwise evidence shows clearly contradicts that assumption cannot be correct. There is nothing in scripture that says God will make sure that all the texts will remain pure and spotless as the winter snow.

Why not just view scripture as open to interpretation, and that the point of it is not to find out facts, but to inspire different understandings from the heart that inspire good in the world? That, is in fact consistent with the facts that scriptures are in fact imperfect in their transmission, translations, and understandings. Isn't that easier than trying to force-fit a view you have with the actual evidence, or ignore the evidence to hang onto your view at the expense of understanding?

Would it be easier? ABSOLUTELY, but easier isn't always the answer.
I don't try to force anything. I simply believe God and trust that He has it handled.

If my husband leaves my unborn child a letter of love and instruction because his death is iminent, and His Spirit will supposedly guide that child to know Him intimately, do I simply say "it's a matter of interpretation" or do I trust that His spirit will indeed teach her who He is and how much he loves that child? The Spirit guides into the wisdom of God's love for man. The bible is the testament of that love. How can you separate the two?

 

[Unification]

Does God "magically" speak to you through meditation? It's not magic, it's supernatural divineness that cannot be contained or confined to logic.

This wasn't meant for me, but for me, in the form of thoughts and sensation/aura within. Questions, new ideas, inspiration. Wisdom, knowledge, awareness revealed. Logically, and scientifically... I would say messenger particles of light/photons/energy entering the brain and arcing across synapses and trees/dendrites. The human being is equipped with all that it needs within, the Source is everything external to us, and our source is internal.

 

[sassysam29]

And as I said, my eyes were opened to the goodness of man (flesh) and the goodness of God (spirit) . The flesh can do an outstanding job at producing good things, but outside of the Spirit, it is simply another form of self reliance

 

[Windwalker]

Does God "magically" speak to you through meditation? It's not magic, it's supernatural divineness that cannot be contained or confined to logic.

No, but we are not talking about things like filling the gas tank on my car via magic so I never have to fill the tank! When you speak about "preserving the texts" from hand to hand, without error or variance, and that all translations are "divine" translations, that is magical. That does not compare to God speaking to the heart in prayer and meditation! What you are describing is "magic". Supernatural "miracles" that the Bible contains no errors. All of the evidence points loudly and clearly that is simply not the case. To claim otherwise would be like me saying my car sitting on the side of the road did not in fact run out of gas because I believe through faith God miraculously fills it for me. I would be sitting there in denial for quite some time until roadside assistance came with gas for my car!

 

[Windwalker]

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God

Sure, and what you have today has passed through plenty of hands is not exactly what was originally said, or written necessarily. And then "whose" scripture are we talking about? The King James Bible? There are lots of collections of scriptures out there, so which collection are you referring to? And are they without error?

Again, I may believe through faith my gas tank is not empty is denial of the fact that it is. But that's not faith, IMO. It's denial.

 

[Windwalker]

And as I said, my eyes were opened to the goodness of man (flesh) and the goodness of God (spirit) . The flesh can do an outstanding job at producing good things, but outside of the Spirit, it is simply another form of self reliance

My eyes are opened to Spirit as well, but that doesn't make scripture inerrant and infallible.

 

[Windwalker]

Would it be easier? ABSOLUTELY, but easier isn't always the answer.
I don't try to force anything. I simply believe God and trust that He has it handled.

In this case it is easier because it actually fits better everything we see and know. Easier, is actually to live in denial. But actually, in the long run it isn't, because you have to work so hard to keep denying facts. "My yoke is easy", says Jesus. It doesn't require mental gymnastics to make faith subject to mistaken or misguided beliefs.

If my husband leaves my unborn child a letter of love and instruction because his death is iminent, and His Spirit will supposedly guide that child to know Him intimately, do I simply say "it's a matter of interpretation" or do I trust that His spirit will indeed teach her who He is and how much he loves that child? The Spirit guides into the wisdom of God's love for man. The bible is the testament of that love. How can you separate the two?

I don't read the Bible as an owner's manual. That's how. The Spirit guides into all Truth. There is a difference between truth and facts. The Spirit does not guide you into discovering the truth of mathematics or chemistry. It guides you into the knowledge of Self. All truths, it says, which means there are many ways to understand things, many perspectives, and they can all be valid, even if they seem to contradict one another. The nature of Truth to God, is paradoxical, not black and white binary equations of true/false.

 

[sassysam29]

Sure, and what you have today has passed through plenty of hands is not exactly what was originally said, or written necessarily. And then "whose" scripture are we talking about? The King James Bible? There are lots of collections of scriptures out there, so which collection are you referring to? And are they without error?

Again, I may believe through faith my gas tank is not empty is denial of the fact that it is. But that's not faith, IMO. It's denial.

I believe that God preserved His words in the original manuscripts and of course, the translations are translations that have been modified over time to cross language barriers and such, but I believe that the message of salvation has been preserved through Gods divine providence. If a letter must be interpreted from one language to another, does it change the meaning or the verbiage?

 

[Windwalker]

If a letter must be interpreted from one language to another, does it change the meaning or the verbiage?

YES!!! Very much so it does. It's removed from the original language and cultural context, and then injected into another language and cultural context. The meanings are changed radically at times. Certainly the subtle nuances are largely lost.

 

[Windwalker]

For instance.... take John 1:1. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word as with God, and the Word was God". Using nothing but the "plain meaning of the text", tell me what it means, knowing nothing of the Greek words, nor the culture, nor the audience. What does it mean to you? What does "Word" mean in this context?

 

[Windwalker]

BTW, if God preserved his word in the the original manuscripts, where exactly are they then? Who has them in their possession? Answer, none exist. So if God preserved his words in the original manuscripts, shouldn't we still have them? You would think so, wouldn't you? He preserved them long enough for imperfect copies to be made, through which you have your Bible today?

This line of reasoning doesn't help you by saying it's preserved in the originals, which we don't have, and all our translations are not based on. So where is this miraculously preserved word then? And how does this help us if it doesn't exist in anything we have today?

 

[Windwalker]

So, would you call this emptying yourself, your ideas you brought with you into a full surrender and trust of God to all his Spirit to illuminate your understanding, not trying to understand God with your mind or reasoning?

I was hoping to hear an answer to this question. http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...tive-christianity.178839/page-25#post-4405223

 

[Brickjectivity]

No, of course not. I am of the mind an understanding of what you are doing is important, and then there are actual techniques and practices that one can utilize. I think a good book, one which @Vouthon first recommended to me to read is Into the Silent Land. It offers various understandings of practices, as well as the overview historically and the principles of why it is so effective and what it will do for you. Other books from the Christian perspective on meditation I'd recommend would be Cynthia Bourgeault's Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening. I very much relate to her insights and her spiritual depth. And of course, Thomas Keating, Introduction to Centering Prayer. Beyond this of course, you may explore the Eastern approaches as well if you like to actually understand their approaches and techniques to further your knowledge. Contrary to uniformed opinion, they do not open you to Satanic possession.

For me it would be part of a completely new attempt by me to reaching out again to God, starting over from scratch.

 

[lovemuffin]

Brick: To add one more book, I'd recommend this: http://www.amazon.com/Prayer-spiritual-classic-40-years/dp/1853117501/

It's shorter than this thread I think

 

[sojourner]

2 Tim 2:15 my Job

John 16:13 God's job

So, it's magic. Got it.