What is Contemplative Christianity?

[Windwalker]

Here I thought all along that the fear of God is the beginning of all Wisdom but you must have that market cornered already.

Which is exactly what I said. Thanks for the verse.

 

[sassysam29]

Which is exactly what I said. Thanks for the verse.

lol...that's funny...I must have interpreted what you said wrong so it must not be true

 

[Windwalker]

lol...that's funny...I must have interpreted what you said wrong so it must not be true

Too funny. I like you.

 

[sojourner]

Then tried to correct and did it wrong again :/

The best-laid plans of mice and men, often go awry...

 

[Yoshua]

It appears you do not understand the words I am saying. Christ is the Silence. But if your brain is busy filling your mind with noise, like blaring TVs on in every room in the house, how do you hear that Silence? All of a Christian path is a discipline. Quieting the mind from busy and anxious thoughts is not different. It serves God in you. Therefore to not do so is negligent.

Hi Windwalker,

There is nowhere to be found that Christ is SILENCE. Christ is PEACE maybe much nearer to the Scripture.

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

Hi Windwalker,

There is nowhere to be found that Christ is SILENCE. Christ is PEACE maybe much nearer to the Scripture.

Thanks

"Be still and know that I am God." -- Ps. 46:10. Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." -- Jn. 14:9. So, if Jesus reveals the Father, and we are to be still and know... doesn't that place Jesus squarely within the stillness, or silence?

 

[Yoshua]

Just as you feel the need to initiate from abstaining from various sins of the body. What's the point. You choose to do these things because it serves the greater good which is God. What method do you use to quiet the mind? Any?

Hi,

If you have the fruit of the Spirit (in you) such as peace (that you mentioned a while ago) from the promised Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ, why you need to quiet your mind?
Are the fruit of the Spirit manifested in your life, or it is not enough--for you to choose another way (method) as Quieting the mind?

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

Hi,

If you have the fruit of the Spirit (in you) such as peace (that you mentioned a while ago) from the promised Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ, why you need to quiet your mind?
Are the fruit of the Spirit manifested in your life, or it is not enough--for you to choose another way (method) as Quieting the mind?

Thanks

Being quiet in one's mind is a product of being peaceful, yes? IOW: if one is peaceful, one will tend to want to quiet the mind.

 

[Yoshua]

Ah, there's your problem with it! You are afraid to have your perspectives on things changed! Yes, there is reason to fear if you fear change. But is that growth then? No, it's not.

Heb. 13:8
8. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.

As you have mentioned the phrase "path of discipline" here, there is a discipline for every beliefs and that is acceptable. Fear of change? why there should be changes?
The Scripture does not change unless this has been added and remove the scripture.

Deut. 4:2
2. "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Thanks

 

[sojourner]

why there should be changes?

Because we human beings are living organisms, and faith is a living faith. Living things grow and change and adapt to their environments.

The Scripture does not change unless this has been added and remove the scripture.

The scripture has changed, though, to the point that there are several different canons, and many translations, each a little different.

2. "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

This has nothing to do with the canon -- or with changes in religious practice.

 

[Yoshua]

That's because you don't understand the first thing about meditation. Meditation disciplines us to seek the mind of Christ, and to be obedient to the truth we find there. Intention guards us from evil, and sitting quietly, listening for the voice of God to speak to us renews us.

Hi Sojourner,

How do you do the meditation? can you explain it in details?
Maybe we both have the same word (meditation) but different in application.

What do you think the Psalms were? They were chants! What do you suppose Jesus did when he went by himself to lonely places? What do you suppose he meant when he told us to go into our closets to pray in secret? These are all examples of inner work, that involves breathing and centering ourselves in Christ.

Can you prove it with scripture? I believe you sourced it from the Scriptures?

"Be still and know that I am God."
"He leads me beside still waters and restores my soul."
"The Spirit prays for us in sighs too deep for words.

The "Be still" in Hebrew text means "relax." Other related meaning is "cease" or "stop,"If we will adapt with a person who will do the "be still," it does not make sense because The Lord is saying to stop or relax. It does not connote to command a person as to be quieting in context; God is telling be relax, for they will not win the war
against God.
"He leads me beside still waters and restores my soul" may served as the Lord refreshed us, but what keep refreshing us? The promised Holy Spirit who guided us.
"The Spirit prays for us in sighs too deep for words." Absolutely! The Holy Spirit is a person, He is God same as Jesus who is God prayed for us. He prayed for our weaknesses as we are in corrupted flesh. We need the help of the Spirit to magnify Christ in our lives.

When you encounter God -- you know. If you don't know, you may not have encountered God. Just sayin'..

Can you review your question to me? I think you believe that all is God, this is why I answered you this. I already have encountered God, and I know Him. I'm asking you to explain what is your God. My encounter of God and your encounter is not the same.

You simply don't understand what these practices are, if that's what you think. These practices rely deeply on the Spirit of God.

Can you explain it with your encounter "deeply" with the Spirit?

There is no consequence. These spiritual disciplines aren't for everyone. have you ever read the Desert Fathers, or Francis of Assisi?

Yes. I read it and their way of contemplating is different from the evangelical practice. I rather look at Jesus Christ than those Desert Fathers and St. Francis of Assisi.

God's kindom is within. Don't we say that Jesus must come into one's heart? That is the true self, the higher self, and seeking God's kindom -- when we be still and know that God is there, inside.

I believe when we seek God's kingdom, we seek because we are His followers, to obey what he wants from us and not finding our true self, the higher self by our own means. Jesus said "I am the Way, the truth and the Life." If Jesus Christ is only the Truth, why we divert our minds to use our own effort? I believe that we should be dependent on the Holy Spirit's guidance.

In meditation and contemplation, we're not "engaging other things." We're engaging Holy Spirit. Meditation is a form of prayer. Don't you pray?

Yes, I prayed daily by calling Him Father-God, praising His name, giving thanks for what He has done, asking my needs, protection from the evil one and end in the name of Jesus. I don't have any physical ritual or anything that adds to praying.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Jesus was a human being. Jesus was grounded enough to stand against Satan.

Jesus is not like us. His divinity was added a human flesh to accomplished a purpose. He is the Son of God, the Messiah. I firmly believed that we need Jesus to counter against Satan.

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Meditation isn't complicated. it's just sitting and listening for God to speak

How do you listen to Him? When you sit down, do you entertain a voice speaking to you? Do you hold a Bible while sitting?
How?

 

[Yoshua]

Again: What's complicated about sitting in silence and listening for God? And breathing deeply and regularly? That's all in the world it is! It appears that you're making something of it that it's not. It's not Pagan. It's not magic. It's not hard, or "unnatural." It's the simplest thing in the world to sit in silence and breathe.

Did Jesus taught us in the Lord's prayer to breathe when praying? I don't see Jesus emphasized "breathing" in prayer? Jesus is more concern on the salvation and protection of His disciples then.

Thanks

 

[psychoslice]

The bible that we know today could have turned out to be just about anything, it was all put together in Constantine's time, he ordered that a book should be put together, as there was so many then, and they all agued over what should be in the book and what should not be in the book. All that they didn't want was burned, so how in the world would we really know what should have been in the book, and what should have not have been in the book , its all so ridiculers, and yet so many believe in the whole silly affair.

 

[InChrist]

"Be still and know that I am God." -- Ps. 46:10. Jesus said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father." -- Jn. 14:9. So, if Jesus reveals the Father, and we are to be still and know... doesn't that place Jesus squarely within the stillness, or silence?

So many of those involved with contemplative practices quote Psalm repeatedly, out of context, to endorse their mystical form of meditation or silencing the mind, but this verse is not about meditation or prayer at all! It is a command and reminder to God's people ISREAL who were afraid in the midst of a war situation to be still, calm and stop fearing and remember that they KNOW the Sovereign LORD who will take care of them.

"Bible Interpretation 101 teaches that every text without a context is pretext. Extracting Psalm 46:10 to be an endorsement of meditative-listening prayer is just such a pretext. Here’s why.

First, the injunction to “Be still” must be understood in the milieu it was uttered. The Psalmist addressed a cosmos in crisis. The crisis imperiled the creation (vv. 1-3); threatened the city (vv. 4-7); and besieged the country (vv. 8-11). In the crisis with their world falling apart, the people were afraid (v. 2).

Second, the verb “Be still” (Hebrew, rapah) is used 46 times in the Old Testament with meanings everywhere from describing laziness to ordering relaxation. Though the majority of versions translate the injunction “Be still”, other meanings are “Cease striving ” (NASB), “Be quiet” (NCV), “Desist” (Young’s), or “Calm down” (CEV). In no biblical usage or context does the Hebrew verb enjoin God’s people to meditate or practice contemplative or listening prayer. Rather, believers are to rest and trust in God."

Read more: http://herescope.blogspot.com/2012/09/be-still.html

 

[InChrist]

The bible that we know today could have turned out to be just about anything, it was all put together in Constantine's time, he ordered that a book should be put together, as there was so many then, and they all agued over what should be in the book and what should not be in the book. All that they didn't want was burned, so how in the world would we really know what should have been in the book, and what should have not have been in the book , its all so ridiculers, and yet so many believe in the whole silly affair.

But is didn't turn out to be just about anything. It turned out to be about salvation through Jesus Christ who came to earth to save anyone who seeks Him for forgiveness. This is what Jesus taught, that is what the apostles taught and that is what the Bible has ALWAYS been about. I believe God has preserved His Word and the message about the saving grace of Jesus throughout the ages and no human has been able to thwart this..

 

[psychoslice]

But is didn't turn out to be just about anything. It turned out to be about salvation through Jesus Christ who came to earth to save anyone who seeks Him for forgiveness. This is what Jesus taught, that is what the apostles taught and that is what the Bible has ALWAYS been about. I believe God has preserved His Word and the message about the saving grace of Jesus throughout the ages and no human has been able to thwart this..

Yes, this is what you have been taught, but Jesus if he ever existed showed the way, that is the way he became enlightened, he was never a god, but an ordinary man, who realized that he was one with the source, or god. But sadly, religion has made a god out of him, putting him up on a pedestal, a pedestal that we could never reach. I say knock Jesus off his pedestal, and bring him to our level, its the only way we ourselves can ever be enlightened.

 

[Yoshua]

Well, actually it isn't complicated at all! When one actually does the effort to "uncomplicate" these things, i.e., through the practice of meditation to strip away all that complexity we heap upon it in all our religious systems, ideologies, and theologies, what we find is absolute, pure, simplicity itself! It is only difficult because we have untangle the mess we've made of it! And anyone who practices meditation will say to this, "Amen."

Now as far as the "possibility of demonic activity", I would say sure, you can hide under the blankets and not look under the bed because of the possiblity of monsters underneath it. You can choose to ask your parents to make the monster go away or ask for them to protect you from it. Or you can take your Parent's hand and allow them to show you there is no demon there by them being with you when you look for yourself. The Parent assures you you will be safe, but you have to look and not continue to hide from what are fears.

I think Sojourner said it best that intention holds you there. It's Faith. Faith you will not be taken by the devil. Faith you will not fall. Faith you are safe. Faith in God. "Don't look!!!" is not faith. It's fear.

But that's okay, no one judges those who are not so compelled to enter beyond that door. There is no judgement from God, only ourselves.

Then what is demonic activity to you and what is not demonic activity?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

Most legitimate religions are human institutions surrounding higher spiritual truths. They are put in place with their systems of belief to support those higher truths, to teach them to other, and so forth.

Something occurred to me this morning after meditation. These claims that these things are not "in scripture", is completely a bogus, red-herring distraction. Is it Christian? Yes, of course it is! People who are Christians have and do practice these things in support of their spiritual path within the Christian lineage. Lineage is the operative word here. If you recall the passage in the Bible where it says we are "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus being the chief cornerstone"? This misguided, modern notion of "fundamentalism" is false. What they are doing is a form of modern Retro-Romanticism, imagining this idealized past when everything was pure and true. This mythologized notion of getting back to the 'basics', is nothing short of just a simple, misguided nostalgia of a fictional reality.

Let me explain myself. Any religious lineage evolves and changes over time to meet the needs of a growing need in a growing world. The world is not stuck 2000 years in the past, and Spirit is not static. Neither should the church be. Even IF meditation practice was adopted into the Christian lineage as something recent, it is still a legitimate Christian practice if it has been integrated into the Christian lineage! Of course it is historic, but it doesn't matter even if it wasn't. When it say we are built upon that foundation, the operative word is "built". There are new structures being built all the time!

How did you come up that the foundation of apostles and prophets and Jesus being the chef cornerstone are misguided and a modern notion of fundamentalism? What should be the foundation?

Thanks