What is energy?

[Gambit]

A lot of this has been covered, so I apologize if I am simply reiterating what others have said. Nevertheless I feel compelled to throw in my observations.

Some truths about energy:
- a measure of the ability of a system to do work, that is, to cause force over some distance, cause something to accelerate.
- highly quantifiable
- equivalent to mass thanks to special relativity
- conserved in any closed system

Physical world is not a closed-system.

and so on. The upshot being, the word energy in science has specific technical meanings. Since this is the science part of this subforum, I assume it is legitimate to bring up that semantics issue. There is nothing in the science of energy that allows for an interpretation in terms of an unnatural supernatural reality. That is, the physics won't support your belief in the supernatural via energy. I realize that term, along with others, have been hijacked by certain 'spiritual' personalities, but it is all illegitimate and confused.

Correction. This is not the "science" subforum. (There is a "science and technology" subforum.). This is the "science and religion" subforum. Since consciousness has eluded science to this point, the question of what is energy is a very open question.

 

[Thief]

A lot of this has been covered, so I apologize if I am simply reiterating what others have said. Nevertheless I feel compelled to throw in my observations.

Some truths about energy:
- a measure of the ability of a system to do work, that is, to cause force over some distance, cause something to accelerate.
- highly quantifiable
- equivalent to mass thanks to special relativity
- conserved in any closed system

and so on. The upshot being, the word energy in science has specific technical meanings. Since this is the science part of this subforum, I assume it is legitimate to bring up that semantics issue. There is nothing in the science of energy that allows for an interpretation in terms of an unnatural supernatural reality. That is, the physics won't support your belief in the supernatural via energy. I realize that term, along with others, have been hijacked by certain 'spiritual' personalities, but it is all illegitimate and confused.

A fine point.....in a physics class....

An item at rest shows no work.
Hold a book at arms reach and let your shoulder carry the load.
By the numbers...no work is performed.
The book must move.
Your shoulder is expending chemical energy holding the item in place....but...
no work is being performed.

and I reiterate....the body produces a unique spirit on each occasion.
Where does that result go?

 

[Thief]

Physical world is not a closed-system.



Correction. This is not the "science" subforum. (There is a "science and technology" subforum.). This is the "science and religion" subforum. Since consciousness has eluded science to this point, the question of what is energy is a very open question.

So the spiritual world CAN interact?

 

[shawn001]

Gambit, Consciousness uses physical energy we can test and observe that obey the physical laws of the universe.

Again, I urge you to actually study some real neuroscience and anatomy.

You need to show what energy that is supernatural and not natural creates consciousness outside the brain and how our brains maybe receivers of this energy no one knows about..

"consciousness has eluded science to this point,"

Not really, but what your talking about and the issue is the "seat of consciousness in the brain" and that is quite likely going to be figured out by science relatively soon.

Studies like this are helping to figure it all out.

Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain

Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain - life - 02 July 2014 - New Scientist

Not that this is the final answer, but its a interesting study.

 

[Thief]

Consciousness uses physical energy we can test and observe that obey the physical laws of the universe.

Again, I urge you to actually study some real neuroscience and anatomy.

You need to show what energy that is supernatural and not natural creates consciousness outside the brain and how our brains maybe receivers of this energy no one knows about..

"consciousness has eluded science to this point,"

Not really, but what your talking about and the issue is the "seat of consciousness in the brain" and that is quite likely going to be figured out by science relatively soon.

Studies like this are helping to figure it all out.

Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain

Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain - life - 02 July 2014 - New Scientist

Not that this is the final answer, but its a interesting study.

So you're asking proof of ...'spirit'...?
I doubt that will happen in terms of tangible.
No photos, no fingerprints, no equations and no repeatable experiment.

But I think it reasonable to say....Spirit First.

been posting that for years.

As for a test to show a presence of mind.....yeah.
Presence of mind after death?.....not so much.

 

[shawn001]

So you're asking proof of ...'spirit'...?
I doubt that will happen in terms of tangible.
No photos, no fingerprints, no equations and no repeatable experiment.

But I think it reasonable to say....Spirit First.

been posting that for years.

As for a test to show a presence of mind.....yeah.
Presence of mind after death?.....not so much.

You have a brain and that is where your spirituality comes from.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But I think it reasonable to say....Spirit First.

Why though?

 

[`mud]

I think a lot of folks think that their gnosis is their soul.
That's why they kinda get their gnosis as being their spirit.
Or.....they pray a lot more than they should.
And that's a lot of time expanded as needless energy.
And no work accomplished, but it does take energy.
Or not, hell....I don't really know....just ask me.
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

Why though?

Because substance first flies in the face of science.
That singularity would still be.....still.....
No bang....without God.

 

[Thief]

You have a brain and that is where your spirituality comes from.

Not quite....but sooooooo close.

My spirit forms for exposure to this reality.
We are here to learn all that we can.
the body can't do anything else.

The flesh is a means of forming spirit, having a unique perspective.

My spirituality is the manner of thought and feeling.
My brain is just flesh used 'something like' a microphone.
My thoughts are channeled to my hand by the nerves.

If my hand does anything at all....it's because I thought I should.....or felt like it.

 

[Gambit]

Gambit, Consciousness uses physical energy we can test and observe that obey the physical laws of the universe.

You might want to consider the fact that energy changes form.

 

[Gambit]

So the spiritual world CAN interact?

I believe energy changes form.

 

[shawn001]

You might want to consider the fact that energy changes form.

LOL and yes the energy I am talking about is the physical kind and obeys the physical laws and is part of the physical laws of this universe.

Your talking about some energy unknown to anyone in the supernatural.

 

[shawn001]

Not quite....but sooooooo close.

My spirit forms for exposure to this reality.
We are here to learn all that we can.
the body can't do anything else.

The flesh is a means of forming spirit, having a unique perspective.

My spirituality is the manner of thought and feeling.
My brain is just flesh used 'something like' a microphone.
My thoughts are channeled to my hand by the nerves.

If my hand does anything at all....it's because I thought I should.....or felt like it.

Thief, if I switched some words here some.

"
My brain forms for exposure to this reality.
We are here to learn all that we can.
the body can't do anything else.

The body is a means of forming spirit, having a unique perspective.

My Brain is the manner of thought and feeling.-where all thoughts come from the command center.
My brain is just flesh used 'something like' a microphone.- This is way to simplistic, the brain is the most complex organ we know of in the universe and not just a microphone.
My thoughts are channeled to my hand by the nerves. -From brain commands through a complex nervous system. One reason I keep mentioning you need a nervous system and the evolution of the nervous system and brain.

If my hand does anything at all....it's because I thought I should.....or felt like it.-by the brain

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You might want to consider the fact that energy changes form.

From what to what?

 

[Thief]

Thief, if I switched some words here some.

"
My brain forms for exposure to this reality.
We are here to learn all that we can.
the body can't do anything else.

The body is a means of forming spirit, having a unique perspective.

My Brain is the manner of thought and feeling.-where all thoughts come from the command center.
My brain is just flesh used 'something like' a microphone.- This is way to simplistic, the brain is the most complex organ we know of in the universe and not just a microphone.
My thoughts are channeled to my hand by the nerves. -From brain commands through a complex nervous system. One reason I keep mentioning you need a nervous system and the evolution of the nervous system and brain.

If my hand does anything at all....it's because I thought I should.....or felt like it.-by the brain

Nice try....but recomposing my words doesn't work for me.

I do believe my spirit is forming for cause of this life in this flesh.
and in return my spirit is channeling my thought and feeling....through the brain and nerves....in response.

The responses are then responded to.
I learn not only from my falling down.....my own efforts of trial and error....
but I also learn from the rebuttals.

 

[Thief]

I believe energy changes form.

Indeed!....it is written....
Do not conform to this world....be transformed by it!

 

[shawn001]

Nice try....but recomposing my words doesn't work for me.

I do believe my spirit is forming for cause of this life in this flesh.
and in return my spirit is channeling my thought and feeling....through the brain and nerves....in response.

The responses are then responded to.
I learn not only from my falling down.....my own efforts of trial and error....
but I also learn from the rebuttals.

So you think your brain is a receiver from an outside source? And not from within?

 

[Thief]

So you think your brain is a receiver from an outside source? And not from within?

That spark we call life...came from an outside Source.

For now, I'm stuck in the parcel of flesh ....just like you are stuck in yours.

This will end.

 

[shawn001]

That spark we call life...came from an outside Source.

For now, I'm stuck in the parcel of flesh ....just like you are stuck in yours.

This will end.

What is the outside source and please support the hypothesis you believe in?

Well we are carbon based life forms and where does carbon come from, an outside source huge stars that exploded and seeded the universe with the heavy elements, but that is not consciousness, consciousness evolved around 500 million years ago for a reason in all life forms. The more complex the nervous system and brain the more complex it's consciousness.