DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Where does freedom begin ? Is it infancy ?
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What is freedom?
- Thread starter sandandfoam
- Start date
averageJOE
zombie
Not trying to derail, but I can promise you if you asked that same soldier the same question while he was out of uniform and without a camera his answer would be different.
I don't think I entirely agree, though I know what you mean. Freedom is a word thrown around so much that people often forget that the term and concept is meaningless unless there's something to be free from. In the case of free speech, the freedom is from the government telling you that you can't say this or that because it's offensive to the government, to people, to religious sentiments, etc. I fully support that freedom to the extent that it's enforced in the US: you can say whatever you want as long as it doesn't directly put others in danger, such as yelling FIRE in a crowded building. The US has a lot of problems, but the success of that freedom here to me demonstrates that it's perfectly practical.
Frankly I'd rather be offended by someone saying extraordinarily offensive and hurtful things, than have that person carted off by the government for saying them. Sure, the latter might be more satisfying, but it's far too easy to abuse.
Freedom has its foundation in human dignity. Human nature, consisting of a rational intellect and the will to choose, requires for its true fulfilment that every person enjoys the freedom to be able to make up their own mind when they act and to live according to their conscience without fear of coercion or force ie
For freedom to be "true" it must also, nonetheless, be within "moral constraints". No person can claim to legitimately exercise his freedom by infringing on the right to freedom of another person.
Freedom is therefore a dual value: it is both a "right" and a "duty".
The "right" to exercise one's own freedom and determine the course of one's own life, private beliefs, tastes, clothing, romantic relationships (or lack thereof) etc. and the "duty" to respect other peoples' equal right to do the same.
This value, prized from ancient times, has evolved and deepened over many centuries of human history as more and more people became aware of their inherent dignity as human beings and campaigned for their "freedom". Thus we have seen first male suffrage and political representation movements, working class rights movements, women's rights movements, racial equality campaigns and most recently campaigns by homosexual people to be free from discrimination based upon their sexuality. In Communist countries it took the form, primarily, of religious people campaigning for their right to practise their faith without molestation and discrimination from atheist dictatorships.
In this long history, wars and conflicts have sometimes been harbingers of greater freedom for example the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights which came out of the American War of Independence, the abolition of the slave trade which Great Britain inaugurated in the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, the American Civil War which abolished the Southern slave states and "freed" African Americans from slavery, the wide enfranchisement of women which came about in the UK, Commonwealth and US after the First World War, the Second World War which led to the foundation of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Rights etc. So it is quite legitimate for a soldier to believe that he is "fighting for freedom" whether this be the freedom of his country to be independent and determine its own laws free from coercion by other states (such as in Empires or expansionist states), or to improve the human rights situation in the country he/she is fighting in or some other such objective.
Freedom or "liberty" is therefore the cornerstone of modern Western civilization, with its roots in Ancient Greece, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment and the most important value we hold. From this spring others such as "equality", "fairness", "justice" and so on.
For freedom to be "true" it must also, nonetheless, be within "moral constraints". No person can claim to legitimately exercise his freedom by infringing on the right to freedom of another person.
Freedom is therefore a dual value: it is both a "right" and a "duty".
The "right" to exercise one's own freedom and determine the course of one's own life, private beliefs, tastes, clothing, romantic relationships (or lack thereof) etc. and the "duty" to respect other peoples' equal right to do the same.
This value, prized from ancient times, has evolved and deepened over many centuries of human history as more and more people became aware of their inherent dignity as human beings and campaigned for their "freedom". Thus we have seen first male suffrage and political representation movements, working class rights movements, women's rights movements, racial equality campaigns and most recently campaigns by homosexual people to be free from discrimination based upon their sexuality. In Communist countries it took the form, primarily, of religious people campaigning for their right to practise their faith without molestation and discrimination from atheist dictatorships.
In this long history, wars and conflicts have sometimes been harbingers of greater freedom for example the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights which came out of the American War of Independence, the abolition of the slave trade which Great Britain inaugurated in the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, the American Civil War which abolished the Southern slave states and "freed" African Americans from slavery, the wide enfranchisement of women which came about in the UK, Commonwealth and US after the First World War, the Second World War which led to the foundation of the United Nations and the Universal Declaration of Rights etc. So it is quite legitimate for a soldier to believe that he is "fighting for freedom" whether this be the freedom of his country to be independent and determine its own laws free from coercion by other states (such as in Empires or expansionist states), or to improve the human rights situation in the country he/she is fighting in or some other such objective.
Freedom or "liberty" is therefore the cornerstone of modern Western civilization, with its roots in Ancient Greece, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment and the most important value we hold. From this spring others such as "equality", "fairness", "justice" and so on.
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Harari Rajul
Member
A loaded word which a considerable portion of the American population thinks they are the vanguard of...
Jamesbrice
New Member
I have readyour post and found it really nice and most interesting. I am totally agree with you and would like to say thanks to you that you share this post here with us. Keep it up.
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I believe true freedom is the ability to make choices and exercise free will within the boundaries set by our Maker and God. Since God created us, we are accountable to him. Self-determination, deciding for oneself what is good and bad, has led mankind into disaster. In contrast, living within the boundaries God sets leads to freedom from self-inflicted calamity and freedom from harming others, or being harmed by them. Thus, IMO, true freedom is relative freedom, not the right to choose to do whatever we want, without regard for the rights and welfare of others, and more importantly, without regard for the purposes and will of our Creator. (Romans 8:20,21)
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
When you can easily interchange "god" with "government", you can't call it "freedom".
adi2d
Active Member
You might want to think about the lyrics to that great song
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Freedom is the absence of what is compulsory
Amechania
Daimona of the Helpless
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Robert A. Heinlein
Robert A. Heinlein
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Those people aren't fighting for freedom, they're fighting for a change in rulership (namely America - or an american influenced government - being the new rulership).
It's a good question, however. What is freedom?
America often touts itself as the Land of the Free and uses words like Freedom with a capital F. But if an Arabian went to America with his multiple wives, he wouldn't be granted entry. Why? Because US Law states you can only have one wife. There are many American still against Same-Sex marriage and homosexuality (making them enemies of freedom).
So there's no Freedom there, there is only a certain range of permitted behaviour, which varies from regime to regime, government to government, country to country, religion to religion. But so far there has never been Freedom as the word itself implies: the ability to do whatever you want, whenever you want, with whomever you want.
The word 'freedom' at present, is like the word 'democracy', it's a con. It's put there to placate you and make you accept a given institution. But a nation that is truly free doesn't need to be told it is free. So, therefore, I have yet to see any free societies, people or countries on the planet earth.