What is God

[Altfish]

Not really. It's much more complicated than that. Arguably, the more "original" role religion served (and continues to serve) is for social cohesion and to facilitate social contracts. The specifics of how this is accomplished varies, and may not put much emphasis at all on "great unknowns."

But you needed the 'knowledge' to get the populous' buy in. Unless you were offering something special (e.g. an afterlife) people would not 'follow' the religion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How do you know that you have the competence to judge truth value of propositions?

By its continued succes in doing so.

How do you know that the brain mechanism is not fooling you?

Good question. The brain fools us all the time.
Like for example in this picture here:

That's a still image. It's not moving. It looks like it's moving to us, because our brain is completely fooled by a few cleverly arranged lines and colours. But it's not. It's a still image.

Or this one, right here, one of my all time favorites:

The sides where A and B are written in are actually the SAME color! Some cleverly arranged 3d effects with a little shadow and boom: your brain can't figure it out.

Don't believe me? That would be neat. Because then, your brain is fooling you. So how do you find out that your brain is fooling you? Well, it's quite easy actually: you just test it. You devise a test and conduct it in such a way that you get to bypass your fooling brain.

In the case of this last image, you can copy and paste it to MS Paint, or another editing program you like.
Select a small square next to the letter "B". Copy/paste that square. Now drag the square to release it next to the letter "A". Be amazed that it's the same color... There's no other shade of grey there. A and B are the same.



YES, your brain is ridiculously easy to fool! This is why you guard against such brain farts. This is why things like the scientific method exist. It allows us to figure things out, regardless of brain farts. Or at the very least: it helps reducing the amount of brain farts to a bare minimum...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

OK if I decide to say one of my dogs balls is God. Premote a religion around it I'll end up in a looney bin

There is a religion in Africa somewhere that thinks Prince Charles is god, because some guy "saw it" during a visit of Prince Charles and Lady Di decades ago.

Rastafarians think Haile Selassie from Ethiopia is god, because some stoner saw him step from a plane in Jamaica and felt it was a "mystical experience".

Yes, "god" is whatever humans declare it to be.

We don't discover gods under rocks.
Humans come up with them. Literally. There isn't a single god that we know of through other means then humans telling us about them (orally or through writing).

Calling anything a deity does not make it one, just like calling a bike, a car does not make it faster

Yep.
Nevertheless, it's still humans making mere claims.

The concept of God has been around since the beginning of civilization;

Not the concept of a monotheistic one, though.
But sure, superstition clearly is a trait humans have always had. Which is not surprising, considering the vast majority of the animal kingdom have supertitious tendencies.

In fact, it would be an anomaly if humans weren't superstitious. Considering how this is a psychological reality in the vast majority of species, it would be an anomaly if humans weren't superstitious.

No hang on atheist can be anything all religions are atheist

And all bachelors are married.

 

[Darkforbid]

Why would you call a doctor on such a person? Why would you assume someone needs a doctor because their culture is different from yours? Maybe it would be a good idea to ask them some questions to learn more about their culture before making the assumption that they need medical attention?

Trying to say a delusion idea is somehow culture is ridiculous

 

[Quintessence]

But you needed the 'knowledge' to get the populous' buy in. Unless you were offering something special (e.g. an afterlife) people would not 'follow' the religion.

Again, not really. When you are raised in a particular culture, there is no need for a "buy in" or "something special." It is simply who you and your people are. Conditions were very different when human culture/religion was first established. It's important to remember that the modern conception of religion is precisely that - very modern and typically biased towards monotheistic institutional religions. There definitely wasn't the proverbial religious marketplace of today. Our ancestors wouldn't have even been aware of the religious diversity that we can be aware of today. Your religion, your culture, was simply who you were and your people. There were no alternatives to being a 'follower' or member of your tribe. Well, I suppose the alternative was probably death.

 

[Quintessence]

Trying to say a delusion idea is somehow culture is ridiculous

But why do you conclude it is a delusion? On what basis do you make that assessment?

 

[Altfish]

Again, not really. When you are raised in a particular culture, there is no need for a "buy in" or "something special." It is simply who you and your people are. Conditions were very different when human culture/religion was first established. It's important to remember that the modern conception of religion is precisely that - very modern and typically biased towards monotheistic institutional religions. There definitely wasn't the proverbial religious marketplace of today. Our ancestors wouldn't have even been aware of the religious diversity that we can be aware of today. Your religion, your culture, was simply who you were and your people. There were no alternatives to being a 'follower' or member of your tribe. Well, I suppose the alternative was probably death.

There are many parts of the world where that is still true.
India, Pakistan come to mind where large swathes are grown up Muslim, Hindu - but again the leaders have great power to control their flock

 

[Darkforbid]

There is a religion in Africa somewhere that thinks Prince Charles is god, because some guy "saw it" during a visit of Prince Charles and Lady Di decades ago.

Rastafarians think Haile Selassie from Ethiopia is god, because some stoner saw him step from a plane in Jamaica and felt it was a "mystical experience".

Yes, "god" is whatever humans declare it to be.

We don't discover gods under rocks.
Humans come up with them. Literally. There isn't a single god that we know of through other means then humans telling us about them (orally or through writing).



Yep.
Nevertheless, it's still humans making mere claims.



Not the concept of a monotheistic one, though.
But sure, superstition clearly is a trait humans have always had. Which is not surprising, considering the vast majority of the animal kingdom have supertitious tendencies.

In fact, it would be an anomaly if humans weren't superstitious. Considering how this is a psychological reality in the vast majority of species, it would be an anomaly if humans weren't superstitious.



And all bachelors are married.

No not at all. A Theologic idea: using your Prince Charles idea just means he is their theologic idea of God in this case God of the Yaohnanen village and a devine being.


Rastafarians think Haile Selassie from Ethiopia is god, because some stoner saw him step from a plane in Jamaica and felt it was a "mystical experience".

Again no, Rastafarians regard Haile Selassie I asGod because Marcus Garvey's prophecy - "Look to Africa where a black king shall be crowned, he shall be the Redeemer" - was swiftly followed by the ascension of Haile Selassie as Emperor of Ethiopia. Haile Selassie I is regarded by Rastafariansas the God of the Black race.

And the rest of your response posts consists of nothing more than you saying no, totally ignoring human history dismissed as cultural invention. Again without anything at all backing the belief your view is right.

A wide variety of arguments for and against the existence of God can be categorized as metaphysical, logical, empirical, or subjective. In philosophical terms, the question of the existence of God involves the disciplines of epistemology (the nature and scope of knowledge) and ontology (study of the nature of being, existence, or reality) and the theory of value (since some definitions of God include "perfection").

But you've reduced all of that to the New Atheist ideal of zero effort denial

 

[Darkforbid]

But why do you conclude it is a delusion? On what basis do you make that assessment?

The concensus of medical opinion. Why?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

God is that which is the source of the universe. Many such as I use the term creator.
I like what the Tao Te Ching #25 has to say:

Something mysteriously formed,
Born before heaven and earth.
In the silence and the void,
Standing alone and unchanging,
Ever present and in motion.
Perhaps it is the mother of ten thousand things.
I do not know its name.
Call it Tao.
For lack of a better word, I call it great.

 

[QuestioningMind]

is god this vs that?


or does everything issue from god? the heart?


does god change things?


Romans 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.


John 7:38
He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”


Proverbs 4:23
Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it.

God is a claim that people make about a supernatural being for which no one has yet been able to provide verifiable evidence for.

 

[LuisDantas]

But you needed the 'knowledge' to get the populous' buy in. Unless you were offering something special (e.g. an afterlife) people would not 'follow' the religion.

Was it so?

Somehow this sounds... inexact, I guess.

 

[Firemorphic]

God is, quite literally, anything or anyone that anyone decides to call a god.

It does not make any sense to take as a premise that there is only one and that there will be some meaningful core of perception about its role and attributes. Very often such is not the case even within any given monotheistic doctrine.

While I acknowledge that there are many people who find it important to connect with the "true God"

You can customize the interface however you like but it will never be the circuit board. Recognizing the interface from the circuit board and then letting go of the interface, is salvation.

 

[The Reverend Bob]

God means whatever I say it means for myself. My God is MY God and not your God.

 

[Aupmanyav]

But the fact that you were a 'Priest' gave you a power over others, you could start to control their lives. (If you so desired)

Not really. It only entitles me to my 'dakshina' (fee) for the services rendered, and that is my livelihood. I would do the best, make it as complicated as I can, to get more 'dakshina'.

YES, your brain is ridiculously easy to fool! This is why you guard against such brain farts. This is why things like the scientific method exist. It allows us to figure things out, regardless of brain farts. Or at the very least: it helps reducing the amount of brain farts to a bare minimum...

That is why Kabir (Kabir - Wikipedia) said "Maya, bari thugini hum jani" (Maya is a great deceiver, I know). To get out of 'maya' is very difficult. Deities also are 'maya'.

We don't discover gods under rocks.

We do discover deity idols in rocks, sand or in rivers. In India, they are known as 'Swayambhu', (self-formed), and are worshiped.

 

[LuisDantas]

You can customize the interface however you like but it will never be the circuit board. Recognizing the interface from the circuit board and then letting go of the interface, is salvation.

Sure.

If that is what you insist on lending meaning to, that is.

Otherwise, no. That just isn't true in and of itself. If you mean to talk theology as opposed to electronics, anyway.

 

[LightofTruth]

the thread is about god. what then is god; if not something in the heart?

does god flow in and out of hearts when he searches them???


"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve."

God Himself does not flow in and out of hearts. His spirit does the searching.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The consensus of medical opinion. Why?

In that case, why not ask Christians (muslims or followers of other monotheist religions) to go to a doctor? A person says that he is son of non-existing entity, God (or a mesenger/prophet/manifestation/mahdi/returing Jesus, etc. of the said God), and they believe in that without any further ado!

Call it Tao.
For lack of a better word, I call it great.

See the wisdom of Dao. They did not call it God.

Recognizing the interface from the circuit board and then letting go of the interface, is salvation.

That is not possible in monotheistic religions. The interface has to be accepted, whether Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Bahaullah, Joseph Smith or Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No not at all. A Theologic idea: using your Prince Charles idea just means he is their theologic idea of God in this case God of the Yaohnanen village and a devine being.


Rastafarians think Haile Selassie from Ethiopia is god, because some stoner saw him step from a plane in Jamaica and felt it was a "mystical experience".

Again no, Rastafarians regard Haile Selassie I asGod because Marcus Garvey's prophecy - "Look to Africa where a black king shall be crowned, he shall be the Redeemer" - was swiftly followed by the ascension of Haile Selassie as Emperor of Ethiopia. Haile Selassie I is regarded by Rastafariansas the God of the Black race.

And the rest of your response posts consists of nothing more than you saying no, totally ignoring human history dismissed as cultural invention. Again without anything at all backing the belief your view is right.

A wide variety of arguments for and against the existence of God can be categorized as metaphysical, logical, empirical, or subjective. In philosophical terms, the question of the existence of God involves the disciplines of epistemology (the nature and scope of knowledge) and ontology (study of the nature of being, existence, or reality) and the theory of value (since some definitions of God include "perfection").

But you've reduced all of that to the New Atheist ideal of zero effort denial

Sorry, completely disagree.

CLEARLY plenty of people declare all sorts of gods.
CLEARLY we never find out about gods through any other means that humans claiming them.
CLEARLY the vast majority of claimed gods must necessarily be false (invented) gods, as they can't all be correct (mutually exclusive and all that). But as they all make the same type of claim, the most likely outcome is that they are all false.


All these things together make it extremely plausible that inventing gods is just what humans tend to do.
None of these things make it plausible that one of these gods actually exist.

 

[Firemorphic]

They did not call it God.

Nowhere in the Bible (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic) does it use the word "God", nowhere in the Qur'an (Arabic) does it use the word "God", nowhere in the Vedas or Upanishads (Sanskrit) does it use the word "God", nowhere in the Daodejing or Zhuangzi (Chinese) does it use the word "God". Yet all of these texts describe a peculiar universal absolute (and expounded in their traditions) that appears under many forms an names, how about that!

That is not possible in monotheistic religions.

Did your Guru teach you this dogma? I'm sure most Advaitists would slap your wrists and tell you to start again.

Also, only one person in your list is worshiped. You failed to notice what I was even talking about