what is humanism?

[Sunstone]

How exactly is "secular humanist" not just another way of saying that someone is atheist or agnostic? I just don't see why secular humanism is considered something separate.

So far as I know, neither atheism nor agnosticism entail an ethics. Secular humanism, however, does.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Sorry to thread necro, but I was thinking of starting another thread to ask the same question, before I found this thread. And after reading this thread, I think I'm still missing the point.

How exactly is "secular humanist" not just another way of saying that someone is atheist or agnostic? I just don't see why secular humanism is considered something separate.

Well, "secularism" means holding the idea that government should be separate from religion; "humanism" is the philosophical position that humans have value, meaning, and the ability to improve their condition using reason, and are not dependent on god or religion for these things; and, "atheism" is, broadly speaking, the absence of belief in the existence of god(s).

I'm not sure how to answer your question, other than if you understand what each of these things are, then how they are different should become clear.

 

[Fromper]

Well, "secularism" means holding the idea that government should be separate from religion; "humanism" is the philosophical position that humans have value, meaning, and the ability to improve their condition using reason, and are not dependent on god or religion for these things; and, "atheism" is, broadly speaking, the absence of belief in the existence of god(s).

I'm not sure how to answer your question, other than if you understand what each of these things are, then how they are different should become clear.

I guess the part I don't get is that your definition of humanism seems like a default that shouldn't need to be stated, so why bother having a special word for it? Of course, "humans have value, meaning, and the ability to improve their condition". And being secular (whether or not you're actually an atheist) means that you don't depend on god or religion for such things.

While the word "atheist" really only covers whether or not a person believes in the existence of any gods, it's kind of a default assumption that we all have morals and value humanity. So I just don't see why the word "humanist" is necessary, when any atheist who isn't a sociopath already meets the definition.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I guess the part I don't get is that your definition of humanism seems like a default that shouldn't need to be stated, so why bother having a special word for it?

Humanism needs a special word for it since for most of history, and for most people today, the default position is that human beings derive their value and purpose from god, and that we are dependent on god for our salvation/improvement/etc.

 

[Fromper]

Humanism needs a special word for it since for most of history, and for most people today, the default position is that human beings derive their value and purpose from god, and that we are dependent on god for our salvation/improvement/etc.

But atheism already covers that. That's why i don't understand why humanism is separate.

I understand that not all humanists are atheists. I get that there are theistic/religious humanists. But is there such a thing as an atheist who isn't a secular humanist?

 

[Penumbra]

I get that there's theistic humanism, too, which from what I can tell is believing in a religion, but living your life in a secular way.

But as far as I can tell, secular humanism is just atheism without being a sociopath. Is there something I'm missing?

Atheism is the absence of something. It's not something that one can rationally build any sort of identity or foundation on, as is. It just literally means, "not theism".

If someone principally identifies as an atheist, it's like principally identifying as a non-Canadian. It's technically correct that, say, an American without dual citizenship is also a non-Canadian, but American is a positive identifier of what she actually is, and non-Canadian is a limited description of something she's not. She's also a non-Moroccan, for example.

Secular Humanism is a more specific positive position on certain things, rather than merely a lack of other things. Atheism just describes one thing they lack: belief in gods.

I guess the part I don't get is that your definition of humanism seems like a default that shouldn't need to be stated, so why bother having a special word for it? Of course, "humans have value, meaning, and the ability to improve their condition". And being secular (whether or not you're actually an atheist) means that you don't depend on god or religion for such things.

While the word "atheist" really only covers whether or not a person believes in the existence of any gods, it's kind of a default assumption that we all have morals and value humanity. So I just don't see why the word "humanist" is necessary, when any atheist who isn't a sociopath already meets the definition.

I think a brief examination of the history of human life on this planet and how we've treated each other in general indicates that "humanist" is not really the default position most of the time.

But is there such a thing as an atheist who isn't a secular humanist?

Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un?

 

[Fromper]

Atheism is the absence of something. It's not something that one can rationally build any sort of identity or foundation on, as is. It just literally means, "not theism".

If someone principally identifies as an atheist, it's like principally identifying as a non-Canadian. It's technically correct that, say, an American without dual citizenship is also a non-Canadian, but American is a positive identifier of what she actually is, and non-Canadian is a limited description of something she's not. She's also a non-Moroccan, for example.

Secular Humanism is a more specific positive position on certain things, rather than merely a lack of other things. Atheism just describes one thing they lack: belief in gods.

And if there were lots of possibilities to choose from, as there are with nationalities, then I'd see your point. But with atheists, there's either "values human life" or "sociopath". I'm not seeing a third option.

I think a brief examination of the history of human life on this planet and how we've treated each other in general indicates that "humanist" is not really the default position most of the time.

Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un?

So when you meet someone for the first time, do you wonder if that person is a sociopath, or do you just naturally assume they have some sort of morals as a default assumption? I can't imagine living life without the assumption that all the people I meet value human life, until they prove otherwise.

 

[Penumbra]

And if there were lots of possibilities to choose from, as there are with nationalities, then I'd see your point. But with atheists, there's either "values human life" or "sociopath". I'm not seeing a third option.

I'm talking about all of the other things you could be.

A theist.
An astrologer.
An alchemist.

But you probably don't define yourself publicly as a non-alchemist, or a non-astrologer, even though you probably are. Being a non-alchemist tells you almost nothing about a person, except that they don't practice alchemy. Similarly, being a non-theist tells you almost nothing about a person, except that they don't believe in gods. Me and another atheist could have totally different value systems, because atheism itself has nothing to do with ethics.

Secular humanism is a more specific set of things that a person agrees with or practices, especially if they explicitly identify themselves as a humanist.

So when you meet someone for the first time, do you wonder if that person is a sociopath, or do you just naturally assume they have some sort of morals as a default assumption? I can't imagine living life without the assumption that all the people I meet value human life, until they prove otherwise.

Most people I meet haven't formally examined or discussed ethics in any substantial way. And there are people on this very forum that identity as misanthropes. The guy that works down the hall from me at work identifies as a misanthrope.

Besides, the idea of humanism tends to set the bar higher and more specific than just, "not being a sociopath".

 

[Penumbra]

Why save humankind?

 

[yoda89]

But atheism already covers that. That's why i don't understand why humanism is separate.

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Stick around long enough and you will get into what is atheism debate.

I understand that not all humanists are atheists. I get that there are theistic/religious humanists. But is there such a thing as an atheist who isn't a secular humanist?

There are in fact people in this world who could care less about you or other human beings. They believe we are all corrupt and evil. They want to watch the world burn and they are atheists.

 

[Adair Neto]

There is a video by the Chief Executive of the British Humanist Association, Andrew Copson, called Introduction to Humanist on YouTube. Really nice.

 

[Michael Colton]

The difficulty with the term 'humanism' is that it has two very distinct meanings. One is simply considering humans and their affairs to be paramount - as you would expect, there are huge variations as to how this can be presented.

The second are systems of thought that revolve around rational and fully autonomous conceptions of the self. This latter one is why many people that agree with the first definition still will not call themselves 'humanist,' because they do not want to be associated with the second.

 

[Deidre]

So glad I found this thread! I'm a former theist, I identify myself as an atheist now, but I'm in the process of exploring other beliefs. I'm familiar with secular humanism, but always wondered how atheism and secular humanism differ from one another. I've always felt that atheism was more of a mere lack of belief, while humanism is designed to provide a way of life, world view, etc.

Guess at the end of the day, I'm not a big fan of labels, but it's nice to know how atheism and humanism differ from one another.

 

[Being]

So glad I found this thread! I'm a former theist, I identify myself as an atheist now, but I'm in the process of exploring other beliefs. I'm familiar with secular humanism, but always wondered how atheism and secular humanism differ from one another. I've always felt that atheism was more of a mere lack of belief, while humanism is designed to provide a way of life, world view, etc.

Guess at the end of the day, I'm not a big fan of labels, but it's nice to know how atheism and humanism differ from one another.

Hi Dee
I don't use the label "atheist" to describe myself, although my views are atheistic, concerning supernatural deities (such as those in religions and mythologies). For a long time, I avoided labels, too, especially after discarding the label "Christian." However, increasingly, I am using "Humanist" to refer to my views and to myself. (For most of my life as a Christian, I was trying to emerge as a Humanist, and so for some years near the end, my views were a sort of Christian Humanism.) As you rightly discern and well state, "humanism is designed to provide a way of life, world view, etc." and I would add, a view of Humanity and of Self.

But you already know this about me.
Peace,
Being

 

[Deidre]

Hi Dee
I don't use the label "atheist" to describe myself, although my views are atheistic, concerning supernatural deities (such as those in religions and mythologies). For a long time, I avoided labels, too, especially after discarding the label "Christian." However, increasingly, I am using "Humanist" to refer to my views and to myself. (For most of my life as a Christian, I was trying to emerge as a Humanist, and so for some years near the end, my views were a sort of Christian Humanism.) As you rightly discern and well state, "humanism is designed to provide a way of life, world view, etc." and I would add, a view of Humanity and of Self.

But you already know this about me.
Peace,
Being

Yes, I do.
It's funny, until examining both terms further, I thought they were interchangeable. *blush*
Knowledge is power, as they say. lol

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I think Humanism represents a nice set of values. I just wish there were more of them.