-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What is life worth?
- Thread starter sillygeezer10
- Start date
for me you can not put a price on life. and yes life is worth preserving - but of course the right kind of life. murderers, paedophiles, rapists, wife-beaters, husband-beaters, child-beaters, people who force men, women and children into slavery ( forced-prostitution, forced-labour, forced drug-running etc) , people who cause cruel mental, physical, sexual abuse on others . . . do not deserve to live.
yes, they are the product of their past, but we can not go back to the past to teach them how not to be cruel. does everyone deserve a second chance? tricky one because no one is a perfect. not even me.
i guess the answer lies in one's childhood, there's no right or wrong way to bring up a child - or is there? then again, criminals come from all walks of life. crime is not colour-blind. rich or poor, black or white. it does not seem to matter.
hmm, before i can judge someone i like to walk in their shoes. sure we cannot go back to the past to change what has happened to them to make them who they are, but we can rehabilitate some of them - now.
i guess the " humane " thing to do is to try to rehabilitate them because we are above animals. but, if a crime were to happen to me or to someone i know personally, then the " human " in me would have to say to take an eye for an eye, a life for a life.
this is a tricky one. to kill or not to kill? if i were to put myself in their shoes then, no - i do not want to be killed. but if the crime were committed against me then, yes - i would want to kill them ( if the crime was murder ).
but for me personally, i would have to say that humans are not perfect, and as such will always make mistakes. so to kill someone who deserves to die or not to kill them and try to rehab them instead in today's society does not matter. it's a catch 22. every person is unique. also, every criminal is unique. if i were to truely walk in their shoes from day 0, then i would have made all the decisions they would have made and thus turn out like them.
i guess it comes down to personal preference of each person. what right do i have to judge someone else if i have not truely walked in their shoes? my simple answer to that is - i do not. the only person i can truely judge - is myself.
but, the question before me of course is : what are the practical applications of this?
for me, it would have to come down to a question of self-sacrifice. if i did wrong, would i have the "no-fear"? - ( i do not know the equivalent word in english) to judge myself justly and live by this judgement? and by who's values do i judge myself by?
well, unfortunately i do not live in such a society - i live in a society where an old saying holds true:"might is right." meaning? the strongest person in a small group makes the rules. the laws of each land is made by te strongest group of people.
but if i did live in a society where each person judges themselves, then i would have to say that i too would fear judging myself justly. because, for me, it's easier to take what is easy, than to work for what is hard. it's how i have been brought up. ( so i don't think this society could exist.)
in conclusion? let each man/woman be the judge of himself/herself.
yes, they are the product of their past, but we can not go back to the past to teach them how not to be cruel. does everyone deserve a second chance? tricky one because no one is a perfect. not even me.
i guess the answer lies in one's childhood, there's no right or wrong way to bring up a child - or is there? then again, criminals come from all walks of life. crime is not colour-blind. rich or poor, black or white. it does not seem to matter.
hmm, before i can judge someone i like to walk in their shoes. sure we cannot go back to the past to change what has happened to them to make them who they are, but we can rehabilitate some of them - now.
i guess the " humane " thing to do is to try to rehabilitate them because we are above animals. but, if a crime were to happen to me or to someone i know personally, then the " human " in me would have to say to take an eye for an eye, a life for a life.
this is a tricky one. to kill or not to kill? if i were to put myself in their shoes then, no - i do not want to be killed. but if the crime were committed against me then, yes - i would want to kill them ( if the crime was murder ).
but for me personally, i would have to say that humans are not perfect, and as such will always make mistakes. so to kill someone who deserves to die or not to kill them and try to rehab them instead in today's society does not matter. it's a catch 22. every person is unique. also, every criminal is unique. if i were to truely walk in their shoes from day 0, then i would have made all the decisions they would have made and thus turn out like them.
i guess it comes down to personal preference of each person. what right do i have to judge someone else if i have not truely walked in their shoes? my simple answer to that is - i do not. the only person i can truely judge - is myself.
but, the question before me of course is : what are the practical applications of this?
for me, it would have to come down to a question of self-sacrifice. if i did wrong, would i have the "no-fear"? - ( i do not know the equivalent word in english) to judge myself justly and live by this judgement? and by who's values do i judge myself by?
well, unfortunately i do not live in such a society - i live in a society where an old saying holds true:"might is right." meaning? the strongest person in a small group makes the rules. the laws of each land is made by te strongest group of people.
but if i did live in a society where each person judges themselves, then i would have to say that i too would fear judging myself justly. because, for me, it's easier to take what is easy, than to work for what is hard. it's how i have been brought up. ( so i don't think this society could exist.)
in conclusion? let each man/woman be the judge of himself/herself.
Doc
Space Chief
Ah, but once we consider a person subhuman or not a 'human being', we are denying what a human truly is. We reject the capabilities of our species. A creature that can make mistakes. If we deny the title of a human being to a person, we totally reject what humanity is. Perhaps someone's actions are subhuman, but that person or any person no matter how terrible they act, can never desreve the title of subhuman from me.Dr. Nosophoros said:
Peace
sondadareas
Member
Hi to all,
In line with my thread 'God is looking out into the world thru our eyes' I believe, therefore, that life is infinitely worthy!
peace,
sondadareas
In line with my thread 'God is looking out into the world thru our eyes' I believe, therefore, that life is infinitely worthy!
peace,
sondadareas
Riven
Member
There is no death. Life can't not be life. The body can be destroyed, but life cannot be taken. So, what you're really asking is this: what is the body worth?
"Why should the body be anything to you? Certainly what it is made of is not precious. And just as certainly it has no feeling. It transmits to you the feelings that you want."
"Why should the body be anything to you? Certainly what it is made of is not precious. And just as certainly it has no feeling. It transmits to you the feelings that you want."
sondadareas
Member
yes,
There was once a popular book called, Life After Death, which was the 1st one 0n OBE.
And now, there should be a book which should be called, Is There Death After Life? - because this sums up the idea that Nobody Ever Dies, another title I saw once in a bookstore.
peace,
sonadareas
There was once a popular book called, Life After Death, which was the 1st one 0n OBE.
And now, there should be a book which should be called, Is There Death After Life? - because this sums up the idea that Nobody Ever Dies, another title I saw once in a bookstore.
peace,
sonadareas
The value of life... very tricky..
There seems to be a general opinion that life is 'priceless'. Whilst I can see where this comes from - and faust's view emphasises this perfectly - unfortunately there most certainly is a value to life. Or rather, anothers life.
To you, your life is immeasurably valueable. It is your one opportunity to experience existance and shouldnt be thrown away lightly. If your existence is unpleasant then the value of life drops.. and remember - it is only for you to decide what this value is. No-one else has the right to force you to exist and experience things if you dont want to. This is why I am a strong believer in the right to euthanasia (in particular circumstances).
Unfortunately, your life isnt anywhere near as valueable to anyone else. Likewise, other peoples lives arent valueable to you. Friends and family are different.. but can you honestly say you dont put a price on the lives of people in Africa?
You do realise that a pitance of cash can feed an african for a long time - or innoculate them against disease. Yet we all buy things we dont need. We could have saved many lives instead of buying a computer, or new clothes, or an internet connection. None of us donate as much as we could. We just donate as much as we feel our concience needs to feel that weve done our part. If someone else doesnt donate, then we blame the lack of charity on them.
No my friends. We place a value on life all the time, but we hide such things with intentional ignorance or blaming someone else. We tell ourselves that we werent responsible for those deaths - we didnt instigate them. No, but does that absolve us of blame? A man should be judged by all the good he didnt do. From Fausts viewpoint then, with each frivilous purchase we make, we are potentially destroying whole universes by their dozens.
...and where do I stand in this? Do I donate all that I can? No, of course not. I donate what I think is reasonable.. I make the excuse that im a Student and thus cant afford to donate much - and make the promise that I will donate more when I am working (something I must remember to stick to).. I balance what I donate against whether my donation is actually doing good. Are we just treating the symptons whilst ignoring the cause? Are our donations actually helping to maintain the cause?
For example Etheopia was engaged in a war with its neightbour.. if we donate food, then surely the governments can ignore the needs of the people, let the west deal with the humanitarian crisism whilst they concentrate on other ills.
Hmz.. ive gone way off track.. I hope you saw a point somewhere in what I wrote.. if you think life is truly precious, then perhaps you should practice more what you preach.. on the other hand.. good intentions can do more harm than good.. life is very confusing..
There seems to be a general opinion that life is 'priceless'. Whilst I can see where this comes from - and faust's view emphasises this perfectly - unfortunately there most certainly is a value to life. Or rather, anothers life.
To you, your life is immeasurably valueable. It is your one opportunity to experience existance and shouldnt be thrown away lightly. If your existence is unpleasant then the value of life drops.. and remember - it is only for you to decide what this value is. No-one else has the right to force you to exist and experience things if you dont want to. This is why I am a strong believer in the right to euthanasia (in particular circumstances).
Unfortunately, your life isnt anywhere near as valueable to anyone else. Likewise, other peoples lives arent valueable to you. Friends and family are different.. but can you honestly say you dont put a price on the lives of people in Africa?
You do realise that a pitance of cash can feed an african for a long time - or innoculate them against disease. Yet we all buy things we dont need. We could have saved many lives instead of buying a computer, or new clothes, or an internet connection. None of us donate as much as we could. We just donate as much as we feel our concience needs to feel that weve done our part. If someone else doesnt donate, then we blame the lack of charity on them.
No my friends. We place a value on life all the time, but we hide such things with intentional ignorance or blaming someone else. We tell ourselves that we werent responsible for those deaths - we didnt instigate them. No, but does that absolve us of blame? A man should be judged by all the good he didnt do. From Fausts viewpoint then, with each frivilous purchase we make, we are potentially destroying whole universes by their dozens.
...and where do I stand in this? Do I donate all that I can? No, of course not. I donate what I think is reasonable.. I make the excuse that im a Student and thus cant afford to donate much - and make the promise that I will donate more when I am working (something I must remember to stick to).. I balance what I donate against whether my donation is actually doing good. Are we just treating the symptons whilst ignoring the cause? Are our donations actually helping to maintain the cause?
For example Etheopia was engaged in a war with its neightbour.. if we donate food, then surely the governments can ignore the needs of the people, let the west deal with the humanitarian crisism whilst they concentrate on other ills.
Hmz.. ive gone way off track.. I hope you saw a point somewhere in what I wrote.. if you think life is truly precious, then perhaps you should practice more what you preach.. on the other hand.. good intentions can do more harm than good.. life is very confusing..
Ouch Tawn, you've 'got me where it hurts' (about donating money).
First though, all life is precious (Yes, Jensa - I have changed my views a bit since here) - I would include non-sentient life as well. Anything that lives - and by that, I mean any thing that can grow, evolve and reproduce. That includes everything including flora, fauna, animals, fish, insects, birds - the whole lot. It doesn't include water or earth.
All life, as I say, is precious - if I have to pick vegetables to eat, those vegetables deserve the same reverence and thanks for sustaining me as does meat (the animal from which it comes). If there was a synthetic way to produce food using nothing that has life - I would go for that - I 'owe' a debt of gratitude for everything that has been killed to sustain me.
First though, all life is precious (Yes, Jensa - I have changed my views a bit since here) - I would include non-sentient life as well. Anything that lives - and by that, I mean any thing that can grow, evolve and reproduce. That includes everything including flora, fauna, animals, fish, insects, birds - the whole lot. It doesn't include water or earth.
All life, as I say, is precious - if I have to pick vegetables to eat, those vegetables deserve the same reverence and thanks for sustaining me as does meat (the animal from which it comes). If there was a synthetic way to produce food using nothing that has life - I would go for that - I 'owe' a debt of gratitude for everything that has been killed to sustain me.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
You know,
I have read every post with interest. I even made a glib post on the first page.
I wasn't talking about a "physical death" though, but a spiritual one. Really.
Unless a seed falls to the gound and DIES... it cannot produce fruit. And so it is with us. Until we see our current life as garbage, we cling to it and all of it's frustrations. Once we learn to let go and die to our selves, along with it's wants and desires, we can truly live for God, which really means we can truly live for others.
Heaven and hell are not just future concepts... they are now. I have truly "died and gone to heaven". But I had to see my old life as garbage first. The pain is just too great if you are in love with your current life.
I have read every post with interest. I even made a glib post on the first page.
I wasn't talking about a "physical death" though, but a spiritual one. Really.
Unless a seed falls to the gound and DIES... it cannot produce fruit. And so it is with us. Until we see our current life as garbage, we cling to it and all of it's frustrations. Once we learn to let go and die to our selves, along with it's wants and desires, we can truly live for God, which really means we can truly live for others.
Heaven and hell are not just future concepts... they are now. I have truly "died and gone to heaven". But I had to see my old life as garbage first. The pain is just too great if you are in love with your current life.
Life has no intrinsic value. All living things deprive other living things of their life force to survive. Things that cannot survive on their own or without anyone willing to help them should naturally be allowed to die. They DO die. This is the spirit of evolution, and of nature.
I judge humans individually by their actions and how they associate with other humans. I value the life of my kitten more than I do some people. Humans are another animal, and are not exalted above other beasts.
Case in point: [size=-1]Terri Schiavo. As a result of her own stupidity, her own bad choices, Terri Schiavo's life was destroyed. Did she deserve to die? Fools deserve whatever their foolishness brings.
Reality is not benevolent. It is mundane and brutal.
[/size]
I judge humans individually by their actions and how they associate with other humans. I value the life of my kitten more than I do some people. Humans are another animal, and are not exalted above other beasts.
Case in point: [size=-1]Terri Schiavo. As a result of her own stupidity, her own bad choices, Terri Schiavo's life was destroyed. Did she deserve to die? Fools deserve whatever their foolishness brings.
Reality is not benevolent. It is mundane and brutal.
[/size]
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
At some times, life seems worthless, but at some times, life is worth more than anything. During a wrestling show alittle over a year ago, my life seemed worth so much that I never wanted to die, people were cheering for me after I hit my signature move on my oppenent, and I enjoyed it so much that I think I got a type of high off of it. My life seemed meaningful and purposefull. That same night as I was sitting in my car at a rest park about to fall asleep, my life seemed completly worthless, because I have no one to share it with. I had, and still dont, no one to hold and love, no one to enjoy my experiences with. Then the realization of my lonly existence caught up with me again and life was dull again.
DreamQuickBook
Active Member
Serpens said:
Good post. However, I find that I value the life of my family and friends (including pets) above other life. The further away from my family and my community you get, the less I really care. It's not that life is valueless, it's that life's value doesn't always mean we should protect it. Life is life. It is what it is.
People always talk about how much they value life and how they love everyone, but their actions do not speak to this. This is self-deciet. This is why I judge people based on their actions and not on their beliefs.
KirbyFan101
Resident Ball of Fluff
Funny that we should bring this up. I read an article a while ago (I still can't find it) about the raising for speed limits vs an increased death toll.
Basically, they wanted to increase speed limits to save people time, and hence, X amount of dollars, but at the cost of extra lives per year lost to road accidents.
It turns out, the human life, as seen by the US government, is worth approx. $US1.5 million.
It really puts things in perspective.
Personally, I think all life is equal. In regard to animals, I don't have any more, or any less right to live than that cockroach guy over there, or that cow over on a dairy farm. Of course, sacrifices must be made (tasty sacrifices especially!), but still, I belive life is infinately valuable.
Unlike the US government, I would not like to put a dollar value on a persons life.
At the same time, I belive, for humans, life is more of a privilage. Child molestors and rapists have no right to be here, and I will vote (capital punishment) accordingly.
Basically, they wanted to increase speed limits to save people time, and hence, X amount of dollars, but at the cost of extra lives per year lost to road accidents.
It turns out, the human life, as seen by the US government, is worth approx. $US1.5 million.
It really puts things in perspective.
Personally, I think all life is equal. In regard to animals, I don't have any more, or any less right to live than that cockroach guy over there, or that cow over on a dairy farm. Of course, sacrifices must be made (tasty sacrifices especially!), but still, I belive life is infinately valuable.
Unlike the US government, I would not like to put a dollar value on a persons life.
At the same time, I belive, for humans, life is more of a privilage. Child molestors and rapists have no right to be here, and I will vote (capital punishment) accordingly.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Its a bit more than just being not happy. Its more a deep depresion that seems like it will never end.
Why do you value the lives of other people above your own? I personally hold my own life as most sacred, as once it is over I will most likely cease to exist. "Life is the great indulgence" and all that. There are exceptions.Jocose Satan said:
Should I be injured and need around the clock life support, people have my go-ahead to pull the plug. I would not want to be remembered as a blabbering fool who strained a family member's financial resources to keep alive my empty shell.
DreamQuickBook
Active Member
Serpens said:
I do not value other life above my own. I value the life of my family and friends as equals to myself, because who I am is wrapped up in them. In order to become something great, and the Satanic Bible doesn't discuss this, there is no better aid than to have a superior network of family and friends. We are social animals, we humans, and to truly feel joy in the world, we need to have our social instincts fulfilled. To deny this is solipsism.
There is nothing wrong with surrounding yourself with equals; if you can find them. There is nothing wrong with treating your family the same way you treat yourself, out of respect for blood.